No shore power, yes gen power, transfer switch questions

[Clhuggins]

- I did indeed remove that factor

- as far as the odd 1/2 Power with generator, I did my battery disconnect, even though I had no fault codes. Usually there’s a small arc when reattaching the battery, lead. But, the last two time I didn’t have an arc. Also, it’s been odd that the inverter remote inside has been operational, while the buttons on the side of the inverter in the bay haven’t worked. Meaning, I usually can press the invert button outside and a green LED will appear. No now.

After my battery reset, (with the generator off) I held the invert button for about 10 sec, and they started to blink. Restarted the generator and now I’ve got full power.

Going to test shore power again after this inverter reset.

[Toribk]

It appears that the transfer switch is not segregating generator from shore and vice-versa.

But, by what you are describing, you have what appears to be some AC circuits being powered by the inverter....if it is on?

[Clhuggins]

Yes,

If I just use inverter, no generator or shore power, I do get power on the few circuits it provides power on.

To sum up so far after one last shore power test,

- shore power worked 2 days ago, and again today for 2 hours.
- while on shore power, I lost power (felt like a simple tripped breaker at the pedestal
- much trouble shooting later, still no shore power has been distributed
- power is distributed when using generator
- after further trouble shooting, I put everything back together, turned on generator, and only receive some power (now that I think about it, I only got the same few things that I get when using inverter battery power).
- hard reset the inverter, and enabled inverted battery power, then disabled inverted battery power.
- restarted generator, power has resumed being distributed properly
- shut down generator and retested the shore power once more, still no shore power.
- restarted generator, turned on both ACs, taking a shower, going calling it a night.

[Old Scout]

….lot of things going on here but suspect the transfer switch....for most TS devices, genset is the default so contactors have to change/close to allow shore power.....depending on access, it is fairly easy to just wire the shore power around the TS, and then back to genset, if needed.....need some pretty big wire nuts do it....

[Props2]

It appears to me from viewing your transfer switch, at least what I can see from the small diagram, is your transfer switch resting status(no generator power) is on shore power. If that was the case you would not hear relays energizing. Your relays,again viewing with my bad eyes, are energized by your generator source to isolate the hot and neutral from shore source after a short time delay. For troubleshooting,I would verify power at both generator and shore power are isolated. Put your multimeter on ohms and check across the shore power contacts for continuity. I don't know why this affected your inverter, but could have if this involved the switching neutrals. You didn't state your inverter manufacturer, so hard to say. Hopefully its a breaker in a rouge location like the other posted said.

[Ljwt330]

Originally Posted by Toribk

It appears that the transfer switch is not segregating generator from shore and vice-versa.

But, by what you are describing, you have what appears to be some AC circuits being powered by the inverter....if it is on?

Agree^^.


Look closely at the schematic you posted. The contactors which switch from shore to gen power are in a Normally Closed (NC) position for transfer of power from the shore lines. That means, with no power to the relay/switching coils, the wires are connected by default from shore power to the inverter and main panel. In other words, the RV is ready to accecept AC from shore power by default. When you plug in, there will be no "click" of the contactors because they are already in the correct position for shore power.



As soon as the generator is powered, the relay/switching coils are powered (after a slight delay) which switches the RV power from the shore wires to the generator wires, and is accompanied by an audible "click." If the gen is shut down, there will be another "click" as the contactors return to the NC position for the shore power wires.


Without a picture, it's not clear where you measured power across the contactors. Referring to the diagram, without the gen running, there should be 120vac at the top, black wire on the left and on the top black wire on the right (note, those are the positions on the schematic, but may not be the actual positions on the switches.) When the gen is running, there should be 120vac on the second from top black wire on both switches.


Now, you state that you get no voltage readings at either switch when the shore power is plugged in, yet you state there is power at the post, at the surge protector, and from the power cord. You cannot have both situations at the same time unless there is a break between where the power cord connects to the input side of the switch.


You, apparently, are not getting power from the shore post to the transfer switch. We need a picture of the physical connections of where the incoming shore wires connect to the transfer switch. There's got to be power somewhere among the wires that enter the switch box from shore, if you are correct about tracing power from post through power cord. If the input contactor (on the left) is somehow stuck open--shunting power from the gen--then you would not get a power reading from the output side of that same (input) contactor, but would get power from the side where the shore wire is physically connected to the switch.


Still with me. In short, it appears you are not getting shore power to the input switch or, at least, across just the input switch.

[Toribk]

....so check continuity from your shorepower plug to AC inputs at the transfer switch to make sure somethings not amiss with your cord........tomorrow[emoji108]

[Clhuggins]

Thanks for all those great replies.

I can confirm that when generator is turned on, after short delay, there is the audible click of the relays switching positions. Then again when generator is turned off, another click as the relays are switching positions.

My assumptions have been that the normal state is set for shore power, and that it shouldn’t “click“.

As for how it’s wired, I’ll be diving into it again tomorow, and so I can take some pics. I can only see 1/2 of one switch as it is. But, for both switches, there are two metal arms that actuate with the relay. Assuming they are the typical Hot and Netural of a circuit, I measured voltage across those arms. (Results in the OP)

These two arms, while in normal state, are sprung towards me making contact with a fixed pair of arms....While in the other state, the actuating arms move away from me making contact with another fixed pair of arms. Again, assuming that both of these pairs of fixed arms correspond to the typical Hot and Netural, these three pairs of arms are what I was measuring with the multimeter (voltage). Also, there are corresponding wires/screw contacts leading to these arms. I also measured voltage at those screws. But, again, I can only see 1/2 of one switch right now, and I can’t remember exactly what’s on the other side, but there are more screws which I measured. I’ll get a pic tomorrow.

I did not measure ohms.

I guess I’m confused as to which switch should switch, at which time. I understand all the normal state stuff, that’s all good. But, if there’s a Hot, Netural and Ground coming from both shore and generator, and each switch to have a Hot, Netural, and Ground, I guess I would expect for the shore to be hard wired to switch A, and generator to switch B, the actuate either switch A if shore, or switch B if generator (defaulting to the generator as stated before). Should both switches be actuating, if so, why?

[Clhuggins]

Found this link of a simular situation, but opposite. No power from Generator but shore ok.

His solution is irrelevant to mine, but, he’s got good pics. Same breaker box and transfer switches.

RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Class A Motorhomes: Time Delay Relay/Transfer Switch

Hope this url works.

[SuperGewl]

OK I think I see what you did but not 100% sure, so do this. Shut down generator and invertor. Plug into shore power, open ATS and check for power.
You say you removed Surge protector so it should not be an issue now. If you don't have power disconnect from shore power bring end of cable into MH and do an continuity check from the each of the 3 prongs to inside the ATS, Hot (black), white (neutral), and ground (green). Do this with no power any where. If you have no Opens, high ohms then your cable is good and your ATS is toast, if one of the test shows an open , then the cable or plug is toast.
You did not say if you have any black marks on the plug, if you do then it's toast.
If your ATS is bad then it may be better to replace the whole thing. You can get one with built in Surge if you want also.
Let us know what you find.

[tmw188]

Originally Posted by Toribk

It appears that the transfer switch is not segregating generator from shore and vice-versa.

But, by what you are describing, you have what appears to be some AC circuits being powered by the inverter....if it is on?

Is there any solid state boards or components in that transfer switch?

[Props2]

Let me see if I can explain this. I believe you have 2 relays, both relay coils energize after a short time delay once power is sensed from your generator. Your first coil isolates the shore power to generator power. The second relay isolates your inverter from your main house panel. This has to happen to get your neutral isolated completely off your house panel for safety reasons. If I had to guess, and you can verify that you have 120v thru your shore power to the transfer switch, the first relay failed.

Lets look at the scenario from your wiring diagram. On shore power(if you truly had 120v),relays do nothing,the source to your inverter is happy and doing its job and charging battery's, and you have power to your main panel. Let 's say you decide to run your generator and still have good shore power. Relay 1 and 2 energize after time delay and isolate your shore power to your generator, you have power to your inverter(relay 2 for neutral isolation) AND house panel. If relay 1 fails,you can see you would lose your house panel but not your inverter. Your inverter and related circuits continues to function normally on generator power.
If everything seems to be good, I would take a close look at your main breaker. I have seen these fail in what appears to be in a closed position but in fact have failed. I assume you have checked for 120v at the line side of your main house breaker.
This is actually a very simple setup, but probably a pita to get to.
Good luck

[Clhuggins]

ABout to start back in on the trouble shooting. On a good note, I called Fleetwood, and they sent me a very user friendly service guide.

I’m about to open everything back up, test voltages again, and test continuity

Edit: I’ve got the PDC-1009 panel.

[Clhuggins]

According to that guide they sent, I've tested the posts, and even retraced the shore power line to where it enters the breaker box, and I do not have voltage on this end of the cable.....before it even gets to the transfer switch.


Some images of my box