Operating Costs

[LVRVLUVR]

Originally Posted by TMan59

We went from a 25' toiga Montara with a 460 to a 40' Monaco dp.
They don't make a 40'gasser that I know of so that decision was easy.
We had the Montara for about 12 years and put about 60,000 miles on it.
The last 10 years was just used by me and my buddies racing mx.
We changed the oil every 3000 miles and did the brakes twice. That was about $120 a year in oil.
We sold that when I got the new hip and had to give up mx.
We bought the Monaco to see if we liked traveling in something bigger.
I change the oil once a year at $240.
No question in my mind what works best for us.
A gasser would save us a ton of $ because I doubt we would use it.
The dp cost a lot more because we can't wait to use it again.

I just did the reverse... went from a new DP to a new 25' montera..

with the msrp of 130k more ,and the plates and insurance...the math was easy as to which was more economical...

but,... it's like comparing a mini bob cat to a front loader...

there's a reason the DP was 130k more

[LVRVLUVR]

Originally Posted by Clifftall

You may notice that some posts here have been edited an
or removed. Personal attacks are not permitted here. Our #1 rule is " be nice "
Cliff

thankyou for your service

[JFNM]

Originally Posted by tmw188

Trips would be....

IMHO, too many focus on the wrong things (gas versus diesel). I'd suggest deciding how you are going to use your motorhome and then picking the appropriate rig. IMHO, this is not just frequency and distance. It is also the weight and volume of stuff you plan to haul (bodies, toys, toad, clothes, junk, hobbies, etc...) and the mode you plan to "camp" (always full hookup versus weeks of boondocking). I'm never exactly sure why people that ALWAYS have full hookups carry around humongous water tanks and huge battery banks - kinda wasteful, I think. On the flip-side, I rarely ever have a full hookup so rely heavily on those huge water tanks, battery bank, and solar panels.

The discussion about maintenance cost differences are kinda silly, in my opinion, as they are not apples to apples. Typically, a diesel is capable of safely carrying much more weight. The maintenance costs of an 18,000 pound unit versus 35,000 pound unit SHOULD be different. It reminds me of two people arguing the maintenance cost differences between a Ford Escort and a Chevy Suburban - two entirely different things built for entirely different purposes (or, to be really extreme, a 30' sailboat and a 300' oil tanker, both are boats, right??).

If you don't "need" to carry the extra weight and costs are a factor (your budget) then don't get the 'bigger/heavier/more load capable' unit.

[TMan59]

Originally Posted by LVRVLUVR

I just did the reverse... went from a new DP to a new 25' montera..

with the msrp of 130k more ,and the plates and insurance...the math was easy as to which was more economical...

but,... it's like comparing a mini bob cat to a front loader...

there's a reason the DP was 130k more

How cool!
I really did like the Montara, served us well at that stage.
Problem was I had to crawl over the DW feet to get in and out of bed.
It was a 93 and when sold it everything still worked.

But now we have a queen bed, and I think the next one will have a king bed.
As long as we are all having a blast, thats all thats important!

[WillandJane]

Originally Posted by Moxy

Hey if you end up needing a engine or transmission I would be stunned, that 8.3 and 3000 Allison are the bomb, batteries and the like are the same in gas or diesel, most of the items you replaced are not unique to diesels, neither are tvs, water heaters, flooring and led lights etc, same goes for fogged windows, expenses may put you out of motorhomes period, not DP's

Hate to burst your bubble, traveling in motorhomes costs money period.

Moxy

It would seem the key word in your statement is traveling. It does cost money but compare it to a few alternatives, plane will cost you the fair plus motel, restaurant, and rental car expenses to get around. Train will be cheaper, and you can bunk in depending on where your going but not as convient and then there is the bus.....need I say more. The cost of your MH is perhaps your biggest hurdle but the rest outside of total disaster is a bargain to move around this comfortably.

WDK

[WillandJane]

Originally Posted by JFNM

IMHO, too many focus on the wrong things (gas versus diesel). I'd suggest deciding how you are going to use your motorhome and then picking the appropriate rig. IMHO, this is not just frequency and distance. It is also the weight and volume of stuff you plan to haul (bodies, toys, toad, clothes, junk, hobbies, etc...) and the mode you plan to "camp" (always full hookup versus weeks of boondocking). I'm never exactly sure why people that ALWAYS have full hookups carry around humongous water tanks and huge battery banks - kinda wasteful, I think. On the flip-side, I rarely ever have a full hookup so rely heavily on those huge water tanks, battery bank, and solar panels.

The discussion about maintenance cost differences are kinda silly, in my opinion, as they are not apples to apples. Typically, a diesel is capable of safely carrying much more weight. The maintenance costs of an 18,000 pound unit versus 35,000 pound unit SHOULD be different. It reminds me of two people arguing the maintenance cost differences between a Ford Escort and a Chevy Suburban - two entirely different things built for entirely different purposes (or, to be really extreme, a 30' sailboat and a 300' oil tanker, both are boats, right??).

If you don't "need" to carry the extra weight and costs are a factor (your budget) then don't get the 'bigger/heavier/more load capable' unit.

Right on the money.

WDK

[tmw188]

Originally Posted by JFNM

IMHO, too many focus on the wrong things (gas versus diesel). I'd suggest deciding how you are going to use your motorhome and then picking the appropriate rig. IMHO, this is not just frequency and distance. It is also the weight and volume of stuff you plan to haul (bodies, toys, toad, clothes, junk, hobbies, etc...) and the mode you plan to "camp" (always full hookup versus weeks of boondocking). I'm never exactly sure why people that ALWAYS have full hookups carry around humongous water tanks and huge battery banks - kinda wasteful, I think. On the flip-side, I rarely ever have a full hookup so rely heavily on those huge water tanks, battery bank, and solar panels.



The discussion about maintenance cost differences are kinda silly, in my opinion, as they are not apples to apples. Typically, a diesel is capable of safely carrying much more weight. The maintenance costs of an 18,000 pound unit versus 35,000 pound unit SHOULD be different. It reminds me of two people arguing the maintenance cost differences between a Ford Escort and a Chevy Suburban - two entirely different things built for entirely different purposes (or, to be really extreme, a 30' sailboat and a 300' oil tanker, both are boats, right??).



If you don't "need" to carry the extra weight and costs are a factor (your budget) then don't get the 'bigger/heavier/more load capable' unit.

Not trying to compare apples to apples. But if I see an average cost between diesel owners I get a feel for if I want to go that route. It's not the maintenance as much as maybe the upkeep of the DP's.


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[Kiwi]

If money is no object. Then hands down get the Diesel and pay someone to keep it up. Better to ride in, can be a bigger coach, more room inside, and greater towing capacity.

If you don't have a big budget and don't need all the perks of the diesel, then get a gas and be perfectly happy getting up the mountain 30 minutes after your friends in the diesel. Parked they are the same up to 36' Above that diesel is your only choice. But know that if you like camping in the National Parks, some sites cannot take a 40' diesel. So you have to decide what life you want and what life you can afford.

[WillandJane]

Originally Posted by tmw188

Not trying to compare apples to apples. But if I see an average cost between diesel owners I get a feel for if I want to go that route. It's not the maintenance as much as maybe the upkeep of the DP's.


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I am not sure what the difference is here......I have always thought maintenance was part and parcel of of the upkeep.....how can you do one without the other?

WDK

[Davdeb1]

I thought maintenance was part of upkeep?

[vapor3000]

I've owned 4 Class A gassers. The last two were 8.1 liter GM/Allison on Workhorse chassis. Both were powerful and good RV's and both were 35' or less. I now have a 40' Newmar/Spartan w/Cummins ISL 8.9 liter, 370 HP diesel.

I would say the overall maintenance costs are higher for the diesel, around 20% if you do the work yourself as I do. I consider the side mounted radiator for the DP mandatory to lower these costs. I find the fuel mileage about the same and currently the fuel cost/gal is about the same.

The torque of my diesel (1250 lb-ft) can't be compared with any gasser (around 370 lb-ft). It is amazing to see a 40' diesel rig towing a full size 4WD Crew PU up a 10% grade at 1900 RPM!! With all this performance, the DP engine noise is sillent. The liquid cooled 7.5 KW generator is silent as well.

If you can live with a 35' or less RV, then consider a gasser. After owning both and driving both, it's a diesel for me regardless of the length. You do have to pay to play!!

[tmw188]

Originally Posted by WillandJane

I am not sure what the difference is here......I have always thought maintenance was part and parcel of of the upkeep.....how can you do one without the other?



WDK

Ok I will have to admit the way I worded that does come across funny. The cost comparison of the routine maintenance is what I think is manageable for me. It seams though that the costs of some of the repairs are what I may not want to deal with. Some here have been very lucky and hardly spent anything outside of routine maintenance on there DP that are in my price range. Many replies are what I'm looking for and I appreciate them.


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[plasma800]

Originally Posted by jacwjames

Had a Class C with ford chassis, 460 engine. We put on about 67K miles in the 11 years we owned it. Maintenance was lube, filters, oil change. Back then they recommended oil changes every 3K so twice per year basically but relatively cheap, probably <60/year. We did loose a seal in the transmission ~$400 to fix, Both exhaust manifolds, one under warranty, ~$500. Did replace carpeting with laminate flooring, minor cost but nice upgrade. Had to replace tires 2 times since we owned but cost <$1000 per time.

Currently have Class A DP with Cummins 350 HP 8.3L ISC. 2002 Monaco Windsor a very nice coach.


We've put on ~50K miles in 6 years, I change the oil between 12-18 months depending on if we use it equally, more frequently if it was parked for long durations. It takes about 20 quarts of oil, oil filter, coolant filter, 2 fuel filters (change fuel filters 2 times per year). I watch for Valvoline Blue to go on sale at Autozone ~$14/gallong so I need $70 for oil, and the filters are about $100. So doing it myself ~$170. Changed the fluid in my transmission 1 time with new filters for ~$200, and filters for ~$50. Changed the diff oil $150.

As normal wear and tear had to change house and chassis batteries for ~$600. Also had to put all new tires on $3600.

Usually with the DP's the operating systems are more technically challenging. Since I've owned this coach I've had to change the water heater, Kwiki steps, water pump, radio 2 times, EMS circuit board, ECM for Transmission >> costing ~+$5K.

I am now battling a radiator failure that's going to cost +$6K to have repair, I'm not doing this myself (kicking myself now).

I have done some upgrades, both TV's, new flooring, upgrade LED lights, Silverleaf monitoring system.

I tend to be very proactive trying to keep the coach in good working order. Just got done fixing 3 fogged windows myself, minor cost ~$100.


Fuel cost per mile is about the same, got ~7mpg with the Class C get ~7.5-8mpg with DP but we are able to pull our jeep.

I commented to my wife this week that if the expenses do not come down we cannot afford to keep our coach, even though both of us love it. The last 3 years have been brutal with the next big potential issues being engine & transmission YIKES.

Hate to burst anyone's bubble but DP's aren't cheap, traveling in luxury costs money.

I agree that it could go financially badly .... I dumped 20k+ before selling.... in ONE YEAR and 25k miles on a 2005 DP of good quality.

Notice I now own something I have to open the steps up by hand.....

[tmw188]

Originally Posted by vapor3000

I've owned 4 Class A gassers. The last two were 8.1 liter GM/Allison on Workhorse chassis. Both were powerful and good RV's and both were 35' or less. I now have a 40' Newmar/Spartan w/Cummins ISL 8.9 liter, 370 HP diesel.

I would say the overall maintenance costs are higher for the diesel, around 20% if you do the work yourself as I do. I consider the side mounted radiator for the DP mandatory to lower these costs. I find the fuel mileage about the same and currently the fuel cost/gal is about the same.

The torque of my diesel (1250 lb-ft) can't be compared with any gasser (around 370 lb-ft). It is amazing to see a 40' diesel rig towing a full size 4WD Crew PU up a 10% grade at 1900 RPM!! With all this performance, the DP engine noise is sillent. The liquid cooled 7.5 KW generator is silent as well.

If you can live with a 35' or less RV, then consider a gasser. After owning both and driving both, it's a diesel for me regardless of the length. You do have to pay to play!!

Your answer is a great one. I do understand the pay to play, I've owned many boats through the years that only come out of the water when there are repairs to be done. I do want to stay in the 36' range and will be towing a toad. Just trying to get some replies that can help me with some choices.


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