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Old 10-05-2020, 10:04 AM   #1
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Pleasantly surprised with my ISB towing performance

M decision to buy my 34’ Ventana was a compromise. It met most of my coach criteria but not my chassis criteria as side radiator, an ISL engine, and IFS suspension are not available in coaches this size, with the exception starting in 2020 of the 35’ New Aire. I was interested in that coach for the chassis, but was not pleased with all electric, highly complicated electronics, and of course the price.

So I went with the best compromise and found a coach with a floor plan, construction quality, and options list that best fit my wish list. I‘ve found the straight axle air ride suspension perfectly adequate and the lack of a side radiator a non-issue with a low mileage coach (17000 when I purchased it) and this also allows for one more exterior compartment - important on a shorter coach.

The one thing that really concerned me was the ISB power. I found myself “learning to drive” all over again, as my previous coach (Bay Star) had better acceleration, as did most of the modern fire engines I drove in a past life. And so while planning ahead for acceleration and taking over shifting duties on hills seems to work for me, I was still concerned about having enough power for towing comfortably.

But last weekend, I had the opportunity to tow a car on a trailer over the Sierras and beyond from Auburn Ca to Burns Junction Or where I weighed the car and trailer at an unstaffed public scales facility that I use whenever I pass that way. The car and trailer weighed 4800lbs combined.

So the “pleasant surprise“ that I started this with was the fact that the coach rolled up and over the Sierras on 1-80, which provides several long grades for testing and edification, with relative ease, never going below 4th gear, and my slowest speed was around 43mph. Not bad for my little ISB, and in fact not much different from a previous trip up and over towing nothing. For reference, the coach loaded weighs around 30,950lbs. So my GCVW was about 35,750.

Hence my pleasant surprise. I can now check “power” off the short list of “deficiencies” on this coach. It isn’t fast but I’m not in a hurry and with towing performance like this, it will do nicely for the “long haul”. Next up is to equip my 3800lb 2016 Edge for towing because I can now comfortably enter the world of “Toading” at 1000lbs less than the successful test tow weight.

Just wanted to share the good news and maybe help anyone else struggling with a decision about ISB vs ISL in a smaller (under 37’ ie. shortest Dutch Star) coach. This would of course apply to Tiffin and other brands as well.

Oh and that is a very nice, rust free, complete running and original (and rather rare) 1954 Volvo 544 wagon on the trailer.
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Old 10-05-2020, 10:13 AM   #2
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Congrats on the beautiful new rig! Sounds like you got yourself a winner! Have fun and keep her between the ditches!

Good luck, happy trails, and God bless!
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Old 10-05-2020, 10:27 AM   #3
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Hey now, nice coach and toad.
As I have said many times, what is the rush. 43 mph is quite adequate thank you.

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Old 10-05-2020, 10:48 AM   #4
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R.Wold -

Nice coach! Congrats! What year and floor plan is your Ventana?

It's good to read that your 360 HP ISB performed well with mountain driving. Per Newmar sales brochures for 2016 Ventana and Ventana LE, a 34xx Ventana has a GVWR slightly below that of my Ventana LE and the Ventana has a GCWR higher than my coach. The only "mountains" I've encountered during my firsts year of owning my coach are the "hills" of the Texas Hill Country and big river bridges along I-10 between Houston and New Orleans.

It's nice to know based on your experiences if I ever find time away from career obligations to take my coach to visit family in Colorado that my 360 HP ISB engine should perform OK for that journey.
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Old 10-05-2020, 11:11 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fagnaml View Post
R.Wold -

Nice coach! Congrats! What year and floor plan is your Ventana?

It's good to read that your 360 HP ISB performed well with mountain driving. Per Newmar sales brochures for 2016 Ventana and Ventana LE, a 34xx Ventana has a GVWR slightly below that of my Ventana LE and the Ventana has a GCWR higher than my coach. The only "mountains" I've encountered during my firsts year of owning my coach are the "hills" of the Texas Hill Country and big river bridges along I-10 between Houston and New Orleans.

It's nice to know based on your experiences if I ever find time away from career obligations to take my coach to visit family in Colorado that my 360 HP ISB engine should perform OK for that journey.
Your coach only weighs 1700lbs more than mine and I was rolling with full water and fuel tanks and all my camping gear. So with some adjustments you could weigh in about the same.

Mine is a 2016 3427 - the only year of this floor plan. I wanted a “walk though” bath, like the NA 3341 and 3541 (and DS and a Ventana 3724 but I wanted a shorter coach) a long couch - mine is 87” which is just right for me at 6’5”. The walk trough bath allows extra bath privacy with two pocket doors so the bath can serve as part of a private suite for showering and dressing, or allow bedroom privacy with the bath available to the living area. It also puts the fridge across from the stove and sink, rather than across from a bathroom door.

As Ive said before it must have been a miserable failure because it was a one-year only floor plan, but it’s perfect for me. The NA 3341 would be nice with IFS and side radiator, but it’s also 4000lbs heavier than my Ventana - basically weighs as much (or a little more) as my Ventana and Ford Edge combined. And my Ventana was $100k less than the best priced used 33’ New Aires I found.

And with all the quality upgrades and options it’s just about as nice inside as a New Aire with cherry cabinets, full tile, MA counters, Oasis, etc.

Once I discovered the 3427 I waited almost a year for one to come up for sale and then got lucky with two to choose from in the same week.
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Old 10-05-2020, 01:38 PM   #6
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Nice, that's honestly better than I thought.
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Old 10-05-2020, 02:25 PM   #7
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The 6.7 is a great engine, especially when mated to the Allison 3000 so the engine will be the rated at the higher torque.
Congrats on the new coach!
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Old 10-05-2020, 04:22 PM   #8
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I think it might have been Brett Wolfe, a great source on another forum, who is now posting often on this forum, that substantially stated.....with less horsepower than some of the bigger engines, you learn to do more "driving" than you would with 600HP. Meaning that you actively have to prep for grades and shift more often, rather than just leave it in cruise control.

I know that many of those back east and maybe the mid west, find they have plenty of power in just about any coach. Out west, just about every direction you travel, you're climbing 5%, 6%, and 7% grades daily. If you head north through northern California into Oregon, you'll be climbing HUGE grades for about 30+ miles out of 150 miles.

My 2005 Monaco Diplomat with a 400ISL and 35K weight climbed all the grades out west, towing my Silverado, at 55+ mph. My new Dutch Star with the 450ISL and towing my Raptor, weighs in at 48K. It struggles on those grades. Rather than sit back with the cruise on, I have to get some running starts, keep the rpm's up and do more shifting. Even then, some grades we're down to 40 mph.

R.Wold.....keep in mind, gas engines accelerate and diesel engines gain momentum.
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Old 10-05-2020, 05:40 PM   #9
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We have a 2009 HR Vacationer with the ISB and almost always have one of our street roods on a trailer behind going to a car show. We do not have the grades you do out west but the smokies can get pretty steep. We have never had a problem with ours and I drive the MH not just put on cruise on go.
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Old 10-05-2020, 05:43 PM   #10
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That's great! We like our ISB too. Other niceties include a flat floor throughout (usually) and better range than anything else with a 100 gallon tank. It's nice to be able to drive a 600 mile day and still have enough fuel to run the genny at night.
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Old 10-05-2020, 06:57 PM   #11
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The ISB often gets slammed on this forum and called underpowered. I think its a great motor and in the lighter coaches it performs very well. I owned one in a 39' coach (26,000 lbs) towing a Traverse and it performed very well. The plus was on the flat it got close to 9 mpg.
I would own another in the right sized coach.
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Old 10-05-2020, 07:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don View Post
I think it might have been Brett Wolfe, a great source on another forum, who is now posting often on this forum, that substantially stated.....with less horsepower than some of the bigger engines, you learn to do more "driving" than you would with 600HP. Meaning that you actively have to prep for grades and shift more often, rather than just leave it in cruise control.

I know that many of those back east and maybe the mid west, find they have plenty of power in just about any coach. Out west, just about every direction you travel, you're climbing 5%, 6%, and 7% grades daily. If you head north through northern California into Oregon, you'll be climbing HUGE grades for about 30+ miles out of 150 miles.

My 2005 Monaco Diplomat with a 400ISL and 35K weight climbed all the grades out west, towing my Silverado, at 55+ mph. My new Dutch Star with the 450ISL and towing my Raptor, weighs in at 48K. It struggles on those grades. Rather than sit back with the cruise on, I have to get some running starts, keep the rpm's up and do more shifting. Even then, some grades we're down to 40 mph.

R.Wold.....keep in mind, gas engines accelerate and diesel engines gain momentum.
I wondered where Brett went, he is very knowledgeable.
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Old 10-05-2020, 09:03 PM   #13
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Sounds like a great rig. Congratulations!

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Old 10-05-2020, 09:25 PM   #14
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We do not have the grades you do out west but the smokies can get pretty steep.
If I'm not mistaken the Smokies (Appalachians) are generally steeper than the Rockies, just not as long. It's nice to hear that the ISB does well as I'm planning on buying one in the near future, unfortunately with the 2500 Allison but I'm in no hurry, the fish will wait.
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