Community Forums

twinboat · 06-09-2018, 03:05 PM

Seems odd that it only runs the lift pump after turning key to crank. That and it cranks for 5 seconds after releasing the key.

twinboat · 06-09-2018, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bharlan2001

I have a 2001 Dodge 5.9 ISB. Here's what I've been doing for years ever since the canister drain valve didn't close during a filter change and ended up with fuel all over the garage floor. Engine has never failed to start after my new method fuel filter change. Don't think I even bump the starter anymore. Never had water or meaningful sediment in the bottom of the canister. If I did guess I'd suck it out with a straw or some such. This applies to the stock, engine mounted fuel filter. Other fuel filter systems, I have no idea.

I don't drain the fuel canister before replacing the filter. Very carefully/slowly remove the filter allowing the fuel that is inside the filter to drain back through the filter into the canister. No fuel is spilled outside the canister. Canister is still full of fuel. Slowly/carefully press the new filter over the center post in the canister. Go slowly enough the fuel has time to pass from the canister through the filter to the center of the filter without pushing any fuel up/out of the canister. Going this slow also ensures you don't violate the seal on the bottom of the filter. Takes me 30 sec to a minute to remove or install the filter. Start the engine. If you want insurance, bump the starter. YMMV.

Robert

I never would, or have, pushed a new filter into a canaster of unknown fuel, water, dirt mix, and the machines weren't even mine.

But, to each his own.

Bob Harlan · 06-10-2018, 09:52 AM

Hi twinboat,

I am only familiar with the pickup truck ISB. In my case there has never been any water in the bottom of the canister. The fuel that is in the canister came from the fuel tank. The filter seal that goes over the canister center post is a compressed, interference fit from canister top to filter fully seated in the canister. All fuel entering the center of the filter, during installation, must do so through the filter medium. Filtered and unfiltered fuel are never mixed during installation.

If there's something I'm missing here, maybe I've just been lucky so far. Always willing to learn.

Have a good day.

twinboat · 06-10-2018, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bharlan2001

Hi twinboat,

I am only familiar with the pickup truck ISB. In my case there has never been any water in the bottom of the canister. The fuel that is in the canister came from the fuel tank. The filter seal that goes over the canister center post is a compressed, interference fit from canister top to filter fully seated in the canister. All fuel entering the center of the filter, during installation, must do so through the filter medium. Filtered and unfiltered fuel are never mixed during installation.

If there's something I'm missing here, maybe I've just been lucky so far. Always willing to learn.

Have a good day.

If its a water separating filter element, the element will be blocked by the water. If its not, the water that typically collects in the bottom, will work thru it.

If your not dumping the fuel out of any filter, you are not getting a picture of your fuel system condition. You don't know what your pouring into the tank at any fuel stop.

I always dump the filters to look for sediment or water.

Discovery01 · 07-01-2018, 03:22 PM

Thanks for everyone’s reply’s. I hadn’t considered the starter continuing to crank as odd until a couple of you brought it up. It has always done that since I’ve owned it. Anyway I first pulled ignition switch to check to make sure it wasn’t something catching in there and it seemed to work as it should so I replaced the starter relay, (only about $14 at freightliner) and then bumped starter and it didn’t continue to crank so then I started it and it worked fine. Then I shut it off and bumped the starter and ran back to see if I could hear the lift pump running and I could so great it finally works as it should. So I changed out the fuel filter and tried bumping the starter and I could not hear it running. I tried it a bunch of times and I couldn’t hear it but I bumped it a bunch of times and pulled the filter out and there was very little fuel in there. I thought the pump wasn’t running and I tried to check voltage at the pump and couldn’t detect any. Anyway after a lot of chasing ghosts I rechecked the voltage the next morning with better connections at the plug and I had 12.5 volts for about 20 seconds after bumping starter so I made a jumper wire to feed 12 volts directly to the lift pump and it would run but it was much quieter than I remember (I think it was running when it was hooked up but I couldn’t hear it) anyway I ran the pump for a while and I couldn’t get it to pump any fuel into the filter canister. Finally I used suction to pull a little fuel through the lift pump and back to filter canister. Then I jumped the pump and it was much louder like I remember and it was pumping fuel. I hooked it back up and bumped the starter and ran back and I could hear it so I did that 5 or 6 times then cranked it and it took 4 -6 tries cut it finally started. I let it run a couple minutes and restarted and it fired right up. So anyway the starter problem is fixed and I think the lift pump is getting weak. The tank is full of diesel and it wouldn’t pump until I siphoned some fuel through it so that will be my next project. I read a lot of people find there lift pump is bad when they change filters. Sorry for the really long post but it was a long battle to get to this point. Thanks to those who pointed out that my starter wasn’t working as it should

noserider · 07-01-2018, 09:54 PM

Glad you solved your starter problem. If you have not already read on the forum, the VP44 fuel pumps are notorious for suffering an early death due to weak lift pumps. I would install a fuel pressure gauge before I drove the coach again if I was you. It's cheap insurance to know your lift pump is putting out sufficient pressure. Even if your lift pump was to quit the VP44 will pull fuel from the tank to keep your engine running. When this happens you will not know it until it is to late. The VP44 gets it's lube from the fuel and when the lift pump quits it no longer gets lubed. I have the same setup. I installed an aftermarket lift pump and fuel gauge. Here is a thread I started a couple years ago on the subject. There are a couple others on the forum that did the same thing and I followed their lead.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/inst...ay-272908.html

Discovery01 · 07-03-2018, 09:49 PM

I have been looking into installing a fuel pressure gauge. What brand of fuel pressure gauge did you use. Electric or mechanical. Would love to hear what everyone is using, and how they are working for them. All opinions good and bad are appreciated

JakeF · 07-03-2018, 10:54 PM

The fuel does lube and cool the pump. That's why adding a lubricity additive is a good idea with "dry" ULSD fuel now. When lift pump fails it will still draw fuel to run engine and lube the pump but there will be no return fuel to the tank to cool the pump and they overheat.

I've added mechanical guages with isolators, electric guages and simple idiot lights to pickups when changing injector pumps. Easiest is the idiot light. Nice thing about actual guage is you'll see when filter starts to plug with a pressure drop at wot. On the pickups I've done I normally add a light and either an Air dog or FASS fuel pump. I get lights and reman pumps from Oregon Fuel Injection and guages and lift pumps from Geno's Garage or Source Automotive. On my own pickup that had a VP44 I added a mechanical guage with isolator and had a second lift pump at tank with a big fuel line. Sold it to my son with stock vp44 and 305000 miles. They are a reliable pump if taken care of. The 01 ran 450 HP on dyno since it was new. Not much by todays standard but it was stout back in 01.

noserider · 07-04-2018, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discovery01

I have been looking into installing a fuel pressure gauge. What brand of fuel pressure gauge did you use. Electric or mechanical. Would love to hear what everyone is using, and how they are working for them. All opinions good and bad are appreciated

Call Geno's Garage and tell them what your doing regarding installing a gauge. They will hook you up. I think I went with a Glowshift electric gauge. Tell them you want a snubber and a banjo bolt. The gauge will go on the outlet side of your fuel filter. Installing at this location will give you the fuel pressure going to your VP44. This way you will also know if your filter is starting to plug. There are many options for aftermarket pumps or you could go back to factory pump. I think an Airdog or Fass aftermarkets are an upgrade. I installed an Airdog but I hear FASS is also a good unit.

noserider · 07-04-2018, 08:45 AM

Its a fairly easy and straight forward project to install a new pump and gauge. I find myself scanning that gauge often. It's peace of mind knowing my VP44 is getting the correct pressure it needs to operate safely. Even if you don't change the lift pump, I would add the gauge immediately and watch those pressures at idle and under load. To not do so could cost you a VP44. If you have a shop install a new one your looking at $2500 to 3K. Maybe more depending on where you go. Just not worth the risk in my opinion. Spend the money and get a good gauge. Also add a Torque Tek snubber. Geno's will get you the right one. The snubber eliminates gauge fluctuation and can prolong the gauge life.

tizzyfit · 07-04-2018, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noserider

Its a fairly easy and straight forward project to install a new pump and gauge. I find myself scanning that gauge often. It's peace of mind knowing my VP44 is getting the correct pressure it needs to operate safely. Even if you don't change the lift pump, I would add the gauge immediately and watch those pressures at idle and under load. To not do so could cost you a VP44. If you have a shop install a new one your looking at $2500 to 3K. Maybe more depending on where you go. Just not worth the risk in my opinion. Spend the money and get a good gauge. Also add a Torque Tek snubber. Geno's will get you the right one. The snubber eliminates gauge fluctuation and can prolong the gauge life.

In September 2016 the total cost for the pump, labor, and misc parts came to $6,500+. The work was done at a Cummins facility. The pump alone was $2,373.06.

noserider · 07-04-2018, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tizzyfit

In September 2016 the total cost for the pump, labor, and misc parts came to $6,500+. The work was done at a Cummins facility. The pump alone was $2,373.06.

Wow that's a big number

. I see we have the same coach and year model

. Did your lift pump also fail when your VP44 died?

Bob_C · 07-04-2018, 01:34 PM

Check out Blue Chip Diesel....got a pump from them and works as advertised....better hp and mileage....changed it out myself...

tizzyfit · 07-04-2018, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob caldwell

Check out Blue Chip Diesel....got a pump from them and works as advertised....better hp and mileage....changed it out myself...

Thanks, Bob for the heads up about Blue Chip Diesel. The one Cummins Rocky Mt Crosspoint installed has NO GUARANTEE, so if it fails, I'll be replacing it myself this time. To make matters worse, when they installed the new pump, they didn't torque the bolts down. One managed to work it's way all the way out and I was spraying diesel all over the engine, radiator, and the toad. 4-Star in Florida found the correct size bolt in their bin, installed it, torqued all the other bolts to spec and steam washed the engine, radiator, toad, and car hauling trailer, all for less than $200.
Oh, almost forgot, when Rocky Mt Cummins flashed the ECM they ZEROED out the mileage so I've only got 14,000 miles on a 2002 Kountry Star. The agreed to correct that "issue" if I bring the rig back to Billings, which is where I'm headed next week.