Purchase from NorthTRail RV is this a Title Issue???

[Steve Ownby]

Originally Posted by ChuckNJ

Hi All I am looking for an opinion here on a purchase I was in the process of completing.

I have been in the market for a 2004 Monoco Diplomat 40pdq for some time. I have done all my reseach scoured craigslist ,ebay , rvtrader , PPL in texas and have come to what I feel is a general idea of fair market value for a coach with a clean title.

With this in mind I found that North Trail Rv in fort Myers FLa had the exact coach I was looking for I made a call and spoke to a salemans who said that the coach had just arrived that day and the owner was trading in on a newer coach he said he would get me some pictures info and a price.He also stated that all items on the coach except the in motion sat would be in working order. Later that morning he contacted me via phone and informed me I could purchase at what was a fair market value price and send me some pictures. I agreed on the first price he gave me and asked how could i reserve the unit so I could have an inspection done. He asked for a $5000 refundable 72 hour deposit following my inspection we could close on the deal.

Later that day I received a buyers contract with pictures and the vehichles VIN. My first step was to run a CARFAX on the unit this is where the first red flag went up. The coach was on its second owner out of Ontario Canada. There was a bunch of flip flopping of the mileage between owners but the carfax stated this could just be a clerical error.

So with my newfound info I contacted the salesman who told me he would reach out to the saleman who took the trade and see if the previous ownetr would talk to me to clear up the carfax issue.Several hours later I was contacted by the salesman who took the trade and was informed that the previous owner had no intentions on talking to me because he did not drive all the way from canada to sell his coach to have to talk to someone about it. That statement bothered me a little as I had just sold my 94 Bounder and was very proud to pass on any and all info to new buyer. Anyway The saleman and I via phone went over the Carfax for a half hour and he said he looked at the odometer monting bolts pressed the buttons and the mileage appered correct and he insisted it was a slerical error. At this time being excited and wanting the coach I agreed with him and we continued our conversation he stated the windsheild was chipped and that it would be covered under the previous owners Insurance and I said great I would arrange my inspection tomorrow.

My inspector arrived on a staurday afternoon and spent several hours from what I was told by my saleman and had left and would call me in a few minutes. Well my inspector lost my number and it was late saturday so I could not close the deal so I called North Trails and spoke to the sales manager and he gave me till monday to complete the inspection. When I spoke to the inspector on modaay he informed me he was unable to road test the coach as the slides would not close. I asked if he would go back on monday and road test he agreed. I then called my saleman and asked why he did not tell me the coach was not road tested and got silence and then he said oh it had a dead battery and he would replace it. I said Ok the inspector came back and completed the roadtest and told me all was great .

At this point I was ready to close the deal so I reached out to my saleman and said lets close the deal but had he read the email I sent in the AM asking if the title was clear of any mileage errors or the dreaded "TMU" total mileage unkonw which basicly devalues the coach at least 30% well here it is this is the response I received via email not phone mind you as all our other dealing went and I am copying and pasting here

Chuck,
I went to management to get a read on what the title says regarding the "TMU" and he said regardless of what the current title may say, the new title will read "TMU" because we are of the knowledge that there may be a discrepancy in the mileage and we MUST disclose any knowledge of that issue so it will be a "TMU" title. Thanks...Doyle

My thoughts here instantly were how can this be are they already in posession of a bad tiltle?

So for the next few day I went Back and forth via email and phone with the GM at Nothtrail who on at least 5 occasions via phone insisted that the coach would be clear of any "TMU" but that it would have a EXEMpT from mileage because in FLA the DOT will inspect the coach and exempt it from mileage as its over 16000 pound. I said OK as long as it does not have "TMU" on the title he said on the phone once again it will not. So i contacted NJ Dmv and they do not accept EXEMPT on there title that it needs to be actual or it will be deemed "TMU". I also ran the carfax of my cousin who last year purchased an 07 american tradition from lazydays and its well over 16000 pounds and it shows actual mileage not "EXEMPT".

So once again I had the general manager send me his contract and a legal statement that they typed up after checking the mileage in the cummins computer stating there was only a few miles differnce between the odometer and the cummins computer . I said great all seems well but could you put in writing on my contract the title will be clear of any "TMU" he said and again this is a cut and paste

Chuck,

"If you feel better, write on the left side under where it states appliance will work: "Mileage will not be listed as TMU" then sign"

I responded

"what was really make me feel better is if you add it to the mileage disclaimer and the contract I would be glad to sign it"

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

He Responded

Chuck,

I advised you incorrectly. we won't accept the contract if you write anything on it. I am not able to change the contract or the disclaimer.
Everything has to stay as it is. If you would like to continue, come on down and see if you want to purchase the unit. I have done all I can to this point to assist you. I will let you know when I hear about the windshield.

Thank You
Steve

All I am asking for in writing is this am i getting a clean title? All i have in writing fromm North Trails is that no matter what i would receive a title with a "TMU" on it. Am I missing something here?

Oh and BTW the contract they wanted me to sign asked for a $5000 NON REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT I have all the emails and docs backing this up What are your thoughts?

Chuck,

I winter in Fort Myers and am currently in an RV resort about 3 miles from North Trails. If you are still interested in pursuing this coach and there is any "leg work" on site I could help you with, I would be glad to do so. If I can help just PM me.

[srx-6]

Originally Posted by JohnRR

Just a different way of saying run a way fast.

I believe the OP stated it was $5000 refundable.

"He asked for a $5000 refundable 72 hour deposit following my inspection we could close on the deal."

[ChuckNJ]

Originally Posted by DBeauchamp

I don't have to re-read. All I am saying is there is not much the dealer can do, the titles office has a situation with a discrepancy and may have no other choice but to label your title with a TMU. What I am suggesting is that because the engine mileage matches the odometer, I would be happy and would not necessarily turn this down. But then again, it's all up to you. Good luck finding the perfect deal...

If the General Manager of North Trails on 5 seperate occasions via phone call stated there will not be a "TMU" on title then why can he not put that in writing. The previous title I was told was clear of TMU so are they now branding there own title "TMU" based on a Carfax tha I made them aware of ? If so the value of this coach as I was told by several dealers including Lazydays would take a 30% hit on its NADA value. So your telling me they are now selling it at that curruent price with the TMU ??????

[HHIDan]

Please clarify if you know the answer. Is it the dealer or is it the title's office that would label the title with a "TMU"? If it is the dealer then I don't see why he would (based on the engine info) and then I would pass. Otherwise, if it is the title's office, then I would personally not worry about it as you would have the engine info to back you up when you re-sell.

[ChuckNJ]

Originally Posted by srx-6

I believe the OP stated it was $5000 refundable.

"He asked for a $5000 refundable 72 hour deposit following my inspection we could close on the deal."

The intial deposit for the inspection was $5000 72 hours refundable for inspection

The contract to buy was clearly written $5000 non refundable I have the documents !!!!

[ChuckNJ]

Originally Posted by DBeauchamp

Please clarify if you know the answer. Is it the dealer or is it the title's office that would label the title with a "TMU"? If it is the dealer then I don't see why he would (based on the engine info) and then I would pass. Otherwise, if it is the title's office, then I would personally not worry about it as you would have the engine info to back you up when you re-sell.

If you sell me your coach lets say,I am sure its a clear title yes? You sell to me I take to my DMV to registerypu already have had to sign the odometer statement with actual mileage checked they asign me a new title with actual mileage as It is a federal laaaw that you sign a correct odometer statement

ThaT BEING SAID THE TITLE THEY POSESS FROM THE PREVIOUS OWNER STATES IF ITS CLEAR OR NOT THEY ARE WELL AWARE OF THIS. pROBLEM IS i KNOW A LITTLE MORE THEN MOST AS i AM IN THE AUTO BUISSNESS AND SELL CARS AND KNOW WHAT QUESTIONS TO ASK.

This being said my opinion and this is my opinion only is they are in posession of a bad title and hoped to pass it on to someone unsuspecting they have yet to prove otherwise !!!!

[Clayobx]

No way I would accept any tittle without the actual milage. A five thousand non-refundable deposit means the dealership does not want your business nor respects you as a customer! Keep searching the right coach will appear.

[JohnRR]

Originally Posted by ChuckNJ

Oh and BTW the contract they wanted me to sign asked for a $5000 NON REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT I have all the emails and docs backing this up What are your thoughts?

Originally Posted by srx-6

I believe the OP stated it was $5000 refundable.

"He asked for a $5000 refundable 72 hour deposit following my inspection we could close on the deal."

edit;
I see this has already been covered, I'm a two fingered typist and sometimes by the time I read something, then have to re read some of the thread, then type an answer it's all ancient history

[t55watson]

This is not the 1st horror story I have heard about NT. Time 2 move on.

[ChuckNJ]

Originally Posted by t55watson

This is not the 1st horror story I have heard about NT. Time 2 move on.

I have moved on. Just hope others can learn from what I have learned. And finally why cant something be done about this? It is illeagl here in NJ to represent clear title then pass on a bad one ???

[ChuckNJ]

Originally Posted by JohnRR

edit;
I see this has already been covered, I'm a two fingered typist and sometimes by the time I read something, then have to re read some of the thread, then type an answer it's all ancient history

The intial deposit for the inspection was $5000 72 hours refundable for inspection

The contract to buy was clearly written $5000 non refundable I have the documents !!!!

[ChuckNJ]

I am going to take a diffent approach at this to hopefully get an understanding here

1. You sell me your coach I am the Dealer you know your coach you have owned it since day 1 your bring to me and sign the back of the title and claim by federal law that the mileage is actual.

2 I am the dealer and i will not buy anything with a bad title for full price so as a smart dealer I look at the titles of vehicles that I buy . I check for a signed actual odometer statement because if its not and it has a TMU i will offer you way below market value

3 we complete the deal me as the dealer i now have your title with sworn actual mileage statement or TMU title but I do have a title as now I am the owner. I am aware of its status

4 here were the carfax comes in you as the previous owner took great care of your rig and had it serviced at the dealer and inspected yearly by dmv problem is one of the dmv inspectors added a digit to your odometer reading in error and it unknown to you shows up in a carfax. Bottom line is you know your mileage is true and that is what you signed the odometer statement as.

5 so waht some are saying here is this that the dealer is obligated by law to change the title because he saw a bad carfax? I have never heard of that if the previous owner you signed a sworn statement then why would he change it even if carfax stated its a clerical error

Are you saying the dealer will now take the previous owners title thats clear and rettile as TMU based on carfax? and why did the dealer just not say to me this is what had to be done instead of promising a clear title . Could he be hiding something?

And will the dealer now reduce the asking price from the fair market value of 59k to the TMU value some 15-20k less. Would someone else inquiring on this coach including myself get this new lower damage goods price, and will the dealer disclose the tainted title before the closing? or will it mysteriously disappear off the market? Either way there is a paper trail with dates that will ultimatly lead to the answer

[HHIDan]

2 comments Chuck, then I'm out of here.
1: You know the Carfax is wrong. The mileage on the odometer and the mileage on the engine are the same and consistent with what the dealer is selling. The coach comes from Ontario Canada and as such does not have a title. The title will need to be created. You have not answered my previous question about who will add the mention of TMU on title. I don't see why the dealer would as he knows from looking at the engine mileage that there is no tampering. If the DMV office decides that TMU should go on there then surely you can produce an affidavit and proof that the mileage is not "undetermined" and you can provide proof. If the titles office or DMV can't fix this based on the evidence then there is something wrong there, not a the dealer.

2: About the deposit, it is refundable until the inspection is done and you are satisfied. After you sign the contract to buy, it is no longer refundable. What is wrong with that??

PS: I'm from Canada and have no connections with the dealer...

[scubastevee]

Hi,

is this "clerical" error possibly due to an incorrect metric to imperial conversion? Ontario's would be in kilometers.

None of what you've experienced sounds right, and it was a good decision to look elsewhere.

Steve