Question for diesel owners

[Ray,IN]

Originally Posted by redbaron73

Hopefully this thread will educate those that don't have diesel as to why some are idling for a little while before departure. It might even explain why the engine is idling while the owner is storing shore cords and sewer hose.

It will also make it very clear that no coach needs to run for 30+ minutes. I have seen that plenty of times, and wondered if they forgot the engine.

I wonder if the present price of diesel fuel will alter extended idling habits in CG's?
For those who think shutting off a diesel engine immediately after pulling off the road hurts the engine, I refer you to the UPS comment and drivers instructed to shut off the engine while delivering a package. If it did hurt engines the UPS accounting dept. would not approve that instruction, because engine rebuilds are much more expensive than fuel for idling.

[redbaron73]

By the time you exit the highway and pull into the check-in line at a campground, your turbo has had plenty of cool down in most cases.

I would normally shut the engine off while checking in unless there was some extreme reason not to.....and I can't think of one.

[n2zon]

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

I wonder if the present price of diesel fuel will alter extended idling habits in CG's?
For those who think shutting off a diesel engine immediately after pulling off the road hurts the engine, I refer you to the UPS comment and drivers instructed to shut off the engine while delivering a package. If it did hurt engines the UPS accounting dept. would not approve that instruction, because engine rebuilds are much more expensive than fuel for idling.

What engine is in the UPS trucks?

[Ray,IN]

Originally Posted by n2zon

What engine is in the UPS trucks?

UPS calls them package cars, the current fleet is made by Workhorse; a divison of Navistar and Freightliner. You will never see a used UPS package car for sale, when they reach end-of-life the body is recycled and chassis scrapped to avoid confusion on roads.
As to specific engine mfgr. I do not know. The package cars that deliver to my house are diesels.

[Arty1313]

I was told by a Cummins shop that with the electronics of today the Turbo does not need cool down time. I’m not a Tech just stating what they told me.

[BillJinOR]

It was ages ago but I drove a 7.3 turbo navastar package car. What is used now I have no idea. Engine cool down wasn’t a concern. I started and stopped the engine 100 +- times a day ( the number of deliveries and pickups per day). The key if not in the Ignition with me in the seat had to be in my hand . The main concern wasn’t engine wear it was starters wearing out. That proved to also not be a problem.
More importantly the tractor trailer division ( feeder) also has a no idle policy .. get in do prechecks and drive away! in fact the tractors will shut down automatically at 5 minutes of idle. I would start , build pressure, turn off engine finish inside checks / walk around outside checks with engine OFF restart and drive away. Hooking a set I would start and stop the engine many many times. My engine idle time was tracked and posted.
There is no reason in my mind to leave an engine run once air pressure us up when not being used…. like for slides etc if your brand requires that. Mine doesn’t. Wear on engine ? [emoji6] you’ll never put the wear on your motorhome I put on those tractors/ cars. My last shared tractor had 800,000 plus trouble free miles.
Nothing says you can’t start the engine build air and then stop it while you finish up your departure pickup and checks restarting it to leave. Your wasting fuel, being a poor neighbor with noise and smell etc. But, some will never believe it or change, and .. the OP now knows the answer [emoji6]
I especially enjoy those that leave the engine on while hooking up the Toad.. meanwhile while yelling at each other over the noise of the diesel engine. Life is an adventure.

[Rob_M]

If anyone has ever owned a boat very long….. the silly campground antics are small potatoes to what goes on at a boat ramp. Just sayin’

[Rev. Roy]

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

I refer you to the UPS comment and drivers instructed to shut off the engine while delivering a package. If it did hurt engines the UPS accounting dept. would not approve that instruction, because engine rebuilds are much more expensive than fuel for idling.

There is a huge difference between driving a metro delivery route vs driving on an interstate or highway. Do the delivery trucks have a turbo? If I go directly to a campground that is a mile or less off the highway, then I will idle while checking in. By the way, the rule about turning off the engines for UPS has nothing to do with saving fuel or a courtesy, it is to keep thieves from stealing the truck for its contents.

[redbaron73]

Some interesting notes from the ISX15 Manual on general operating.

Cold Start: (This is not cold weather starting)
* Idle for 3-5 minutes before giving it an operating load.
* After starting a cold engine. increase the engine speed (rpm) slowly to provide adequate lubrication to the bearings and to allow the oil pressure to stabilize .

**This seems to suggest that going to high idle right away is a bad idea.

Do not operate engine at low idle for long periods with engine coolant temperature below the minimum specification in Coolant Recommendations and Specifications (Section V). Low coolant temperature can result in:
• Fuel dilution of the lubricating oil
• Carbon buildup in the cylinder
• Cylinder head valve sticking
• Reduced performance.

**This gives a good reason not idle for 30+ minutes. For me personally, I will keep it to under 15 minutes.

Do not idle for extended periods of time. Excessive idle time can cause poor engine performance.
Internal combustion engines must not operate at low idle speed for extended periods of time. This operating condition may lead to poor engine performance. The idle shutdown feature, available on most Cummins® engines, can be programmed to shut the engine down after a period of low idle speed operation with no driver activity. A flashing warning lamp will inform the driver of an impending shutdown. If an engine must idle for an extended period of time, it should be done at fast idle (1000 rpm or greater). The Power Take-Off (PTO) feature, available on most Cummins® engines, can be programmed to adjust engine speed with the use of OEM switches to pre-programmed set points.

Based on this warning, the fast idle is what should be used once the engine has idled. The above quote warns not to increase idle too quickly.

It seems like a good practice is to start the engine, wait 30-60 seconds, and then engage the high idle.

Engine Shutdown

Allow the engine to idle 3 to 5 minutes before shutting it off after a full-load operation. This allows adequate cool
down of pistons, cylinders, bearings, and turbocharger components.

[BillJinOR]

Originally Posted by redbaron73

Some interesting notes from the ISX15 Manual on general operating.

**This seems to suggest that going to high idle right away is a bad idea.

**This gives a good reason not idle for 30+ minutes. For me personally, I will keep it to under 15 minutes.


Based on this warning, the fast idle is what should be used once the engine has idled. The above quote warns not to increase idle too quickly.

It seems like a good practice is to start the engine, wait 30-60 seconds, and then engage the high idle.

Just a note …” Full load” is full throttle going uphill ( mtn pass) with 80,000 lbs not running down a freeway with a motorhome which is light load.

[BillJinOR]

Originally Posted by Rev. Roy

There is a huge difference between driving a metro delivery route vs driving on an interstate or highway. Do the delivery trucks have a turbo? If I go directly to a campground that is a mile or less off the highway, then I will idle while checking in. By the way, the rule about turning off the engines for UPS has nothing to do with saving fuel or a courtesy, it is to keep thieves from stealing the truck for its contents.

Yes the diesel package cars have turbos. Yes theft is one of the reasons plus …. fuel savings.
Note as I said above the tractors pulling doubles/ triples also have a no idle policy ! In fact when I pulled off the road / freeway into the center/ hub at the gate to check in I had to shut down immediately and hand the guard the keys for his/her safety. There was no “cool down period” … period!

[redbaron73]

Originally Posted by BillJinOR

Just a note …” Full load” is full throttle going uphill ( mtn pass) with 80,000 lbs not running down a freeway with a motorhome which is light load.

Which only makes my point even stronger. 3-5 minutes is all that is *required* at any situation, unless there are other requirements such as slide and leveler operations.

[USMCRET]

Originally Posted by BillJinOR

Just a note …” Full load” is full throttle going uphill ( mtn pass) with 80,000 lbs not running down a freeway with a motorhome which is light load.

Can you cite a source for that please?

[znt1186]

[QUOTE=redbaron73;6189271]Newmar diesels of later models require the coach be at ride height before operating slides.

That means on arrival, we have to hook up electric, water, sewer, then extend slides before leveling.



Just to satiisfy my curiosity, why do you need to have the engine running to connect electric, sewer and water?