Serious issue

[amanda_h]

Originally Posted by ga traveler

No. On AC you have no open flame to ignite the cooling system gas. It is safer on AC.

Actually, this is in conflict with what both Norcold and all the technicians we've talked to have told us.

Gas absorption refrigerators use heat to cool and heat is what is causing the fires, not the flame itself.

Norcold told us (and it's been discussed in several of the threads on the subject here on iRV2) that the risk of fire is in both gas and electric modes. That's why they are telling people to shut the unit off completely and are not telling people that it is okay to run it in AC mode if they haven't yet had the recall kit installed.

And as we all know, the recall kit isn't fixing the problem, it's just a stop-gap measure as it is only sensing when the overheating is occurring so that the refrigerator will be shut off so a fire doesn't happen. You'll still have to buy a new cooling unit if it overheats to a point that it would normally cause a fire. In other words, the recall isn't fixing the problem with the faulty cooling units.

[Phil Palmer]

Dance chick, I removed My Norcold ref unit after it started leaking Amonia in July of this year. I replaced it with the Amish unit I got from Rv cooling warehouse in Memphis, Tenn. David Forse is the dealer, and He helped Me several times, to get my New unit going.
I took My old Norcold unit Out and I am amased it didn't start a fire in Our MH.
Call Me on My cell 770-561-3376 If You would like to speak to Me about the replacement , or e-mail Me a philatco@windstream.net.
I will send You the pictures I took when I took the old unit Our and put the new one in.I run Our ref. on #1 and the freezer is 4deg. above zero and the bottom is on 40.
We are really pleased with the new Unit.
I hope this will help You.
Phil Palmer
Lavonia, GA

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by dforce1

A correction to your statment:
Amish Built cooling unit are not supplied by RV Cool..... Did not want other RV'ers to be informed in error. The only thing that is offered by RV Cool is a rebuilt of the oringinal cooling unit by Norcold. Hope this helped RV'ers get to the correction place. RV Cool may state his units are Amish Built, but that is not correct.

Thanks David!

[Phil Palmer]

Ernie,
I posted on Your thread yesterday about the Amish replacement for Norcold ref.
I was corrected that RV cooling warehouse doesn't have the Amish replacement
Well I have the copy from where I ordered the replacement from RV cooling Unit Warehouse, the replacement for the double door with Ice maker from them.
We are satisfied with it.

Phil Palmer
Lavonia, GA

[mkpyle]

Originally Posted by Ernie Ekberg

Folks- those with the Norcold refer- beware. A friend who has one, and has had all the recalls and recalls on the recalls completed lost his coach when that unit went up in flames last night in Fla. He escapped with his wallet, dog and phone. Fortunately his wife was at another location. He had a working smoke detector. I went to my coach and checked mine- it was non functional. I'll be replacing that and adding another, even though I have dometic refer. When that refer goes out- and it wiil, I'll be adding a residential unit.
Why there hasn't been a class action suit brought against Norcold is beyond my comprehension. There are so many of these time bombs out there, it really scary. FYI-keep your Noncold-and sleep with one eye open. Only you can decide.

There have been so many fires on RV's within the last month. It is the norcold

[Ernie Ekberg]

It sounds like the Amish know how to correct what a huge company like norcold could- or would not.

[flaggship1]

After speaking with Norcold today, I'm no more convinced that my 1210IM won't catch fire than I was previously. I purchased a new to me 2008 Bounder Aug12 despite having the 1210 refrigerator. I didn’t think it made sense to rule out so many units based on the refrigerator. I also figured fixed meant fixed. Fast forward – learned more - got my seiral numbers together, and today Norcold tells me I have the fix! BUT when pressed was told, if the temperature reaches the thermal sensor (fix) threshold, it will shut the unit down and I will need to take it to the dealer to have it reset. So, the temp issue clearly remains a possibility and the fix is as many have stated – a Band-Aid at best with its own potential to fail.

As for the likelihood of fire using LP or shore power, I’m not sure, but there might be two issues at play. One is heat and the other is flammable gas. The thermal sensor shuts the unit off at a given temp, not the presence of flammable gas. I read somewhere that temp was 700, Norcold couldn't or wouldn't say. Seems high but my guess is that the shut down temp could be reached regardless of power source and without the presence of flammable gas. If the temp is high enough and present long enough - something could catch fire from heat alone. Perhaps 701 is temp at which the gas or other close by materials ignite.


What I read of the Amish unit (in part) is that they use thicker gauge tubing that prevents flammable gasses from wearing through the lines and igniting from any heat source. Whether the heat is ambient, static spark or open flame, if flammable gas is present, it’s a problem.

Even though Norcold said I have the latest recall (2010) corrected and my refrigerator won’t catch fire, I’m just not sold. The attached picture indicates the retrofit was done. For what it’s worth, if you have a yellow tag that says Retrofitted with thermal sensor R-010, you’re current, whatever that means.

[amanda_h]

We agree with what you've said, flaggship1. It is frustrating and I'm not sure if using the Amish cooling unit will completely rule out the chance of a fire as it almost seems as this fire thing is related to the gas absorptions method itself and how the boiler components are configured. I would think that Norcold and Dometic would be required to recall the faulty cooling units if this were not the case ...but I don't know ...???

And yes, if you've gone through that PDF I posted on the first page of this thread, it essentially explains how these fires occur. It's a bit technical but we urge anybody who doesn't understand how these fires are happening to read it. Here's a couple of snippets which somewhat addresses that flammability issue you talk about:

"The ammonia and hydrogen which are contained within this sealed system of the cooling unit are flammable under certain conditions. Hydrogen has an auto ignition temperature around 1040° F (560° C) with flammability limits in air of 7-75 percent. Ammonia has an auto ignition temperature around 1204° F (651° C) with flammability limits of 15-28 percent. Of note, ammonia starts to dissociate into hydrogen at temperatures above 600° F (316° C). If either the hydrogen or ammonia contained within the sealed system is released within a flammable range in the presence of a competent ignition source, a fire event can occur."


"...Therefore, an initial non-fire event failure can produce a fire event as fuel to air ratios change."


Do we know for sure that the chance of having a fire is significantly reduced by retrofitting the refrigerator with the Amish cooling unit? We're even nervous about doing the Amish thing. That's why were are considering going the residential refrigerator route as we do very little boondocking.

[wa8yxm]

In my travels I have seen a lot of RV's. many had Norcold Fridges, I have learned how to tell 'em apart epically if the outside hatch is open.

And only one of them had any fire damage, This was a trailer, The Fridge did NOT catch fire,, the truck did, the damage was smoke damage from the burning truck (it needed a good bath).

Same with Dometic by the way.

ANY TIME,, ANY TIME you are "playing with" (Using) products like amonia and propane there is a risk of fire, Proper inspection and maintenance REDUCES This risk. Insurance companies are experts at measuring the risk and charging based on the risk.

IF: the Norcold (or any other product) Was as bad as the original poster insinuates,, IF they were as bad as has been hinted (I believe by him) in other places.. Insurance companies would REFUSE to write a policy on an RV that had one.

Since you can get fire insurance on an RV, and I've never been ask what make fridge I have... Well, draw your own conclusions.

I do, however, suggest you keep the premium up to date.. (However this applies to so many different things that can go wrong the list would take all night to type.. I mean, "Just in case a tree falls on it".. Actually happened to me, sort of (no damage) but hey, if things had been just a tiny bit different.......).

[JC2]

I have read this thread and so many others about the NoCold and Dometic quality that my eyes have crossed. I have made a decision to update my Dometic Model NDR1062 with the Amish built unit from this company, RV Cooling Unit Warehouse as I believe their quality has what is needed. Absorption fridges have been used for many years and when constructed with "quality materials" are as reliable as any. This discussion about the (2) predominant fridge makers for rvs and their failure to address an obvious quality control problem will continue until it's either fixed on they go under. I believe the replacement of the defective/less than optimal parts is best remedied logically and economically by using the Amish parts. Residential fridge replacements do have their place in some instances but certainally will cost more, require cabinet mods, possibly more batteries, possibly bigger inveter, etc. I'm looking at about $650 for the cooling unit + 3 hrs install versus $1500-$1700 for a whole new unit,(which probably will have the same quality) and $2000+ for a residential install. Ain't necessary and is not going to happen.

["007"]

JC2 you are making the right move, to bad Norcold never did, the Amish unit will serve you well from the conversions I have read, that people have made.
The Dometic not so much for problems but will give you better cooling with out all the added fans.
Any rebuilt unit would just put off the problem for later and you would still have to put up with any future recalls that Norcold would put out because previous recalls failed also.
The Amish unit does not need them.

[chucklesg]

So what is involved with replacing the Norcold unit with a residential unit. Who can do this. What are the drawbacks?

Norcold 4 door with blue recall tag!

[okgc]

[flaggship1]

Do you have one of these installed?