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Old 09-11-2020, 11:02 AM   #1
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Shore Power puzzling issue 2011 Diplomat

2011 Monaco Diplomat 43 DFT
Very puzzling question that does not make much sense without a wiring diagram and wondering if anyone else has seen this issue.
Disconnected Shore power this morning with the Generator on. No problems.
Everything worked as advertised.
On reconnecting shore power later in the afternoon, it would not come on at all.
Management panel showed I had L1 and L2 power 125 Volts
But on generator power down the shore power did not take over.

Checked the transfer (ATS501) switch. With Generator and Shore powered I measured the input from each and got the correct voltage from each wire. Checked the Line to RV and voltages were perfect. Shut down the generator and the Shore Power still showed correct voltage at the pins in the ATS501
The line out also showed power. So it seems not a transfer switch issue.

The Inverter comes on and powers the appliances while drawing down the batteries but the shore power does not offer a charge side at all.

As mentioned though, with the Generator on, there are no issues at all which would tend to indicate that the inverter is also fine.

LAST BIT of troubleshooting. I disconnected the batteries overnight. Plugged in shore power the next morning and everything came on again as it should.

Anyone out there know what this could be and has anyone seen a wiring diagram for this coach.

Thank you all.
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Old 09-11-2020, 11:10 AM   #2
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My understanding is that the generator has priority at the transfer switch. That means, when both sources are available, as in your case, the generator will be recognized by the TS and power will be supplied to the coach via the generator. So, that part of your issue seems to be "normal."

BTW, when you switched power sources, did you hear the distinct "clunk" of the transfer switch contacts?

As far as the inverter/converter charging the batteries on shore power, that's different, and I'm not too clear on what you are experiencing. Are you using the inverter while still on shore power, and if so, why? Or, are you saying that while on shore power, the 110 voltage is all supplied by the inverter and not by the shore line? I don't understand why your batteries would rapidly drain while plugged in to shore and I don't understand why the "inverter comes on" when the change over is made.

Edit: I just reread your post and noted this, "Checked the transfer (ATS501) switch. With Generator and Shore powered I measured the input from each and got the correct voltage from each wire. Checked the Line to RV and voltages were perfect. Shut down the generator and the Shore Power still showed correct voltage at the pins in the ATS501
The line out also showed power. So it seems not a transfer switch issue.
" (bold, mine.)

This doesn't sound right. If you disconnected shore power and shut down the generator, there should be no voltage readings at the TS. The only possibility I can think of, and this is just a guess, is that the inverter is backfeeding power to the output line of the TS, if that's where you are measuring the voltage. I'm guessing because I don't know how your inverter is wired or if it's even possible for the feedback to happen. The only thing consistent in your problem seems to be the inverter.
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Old 09-11-2020, 11:53 AM   #3
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Yes, generator is priority.

If the generator is sending out power, the ATS opens the shore power contacts, and closes the generator contacts.

When you shut off generator and, if connected to shore power, it defaults to it.

Not sure why your switching back and forth, maybe to exercise the generator.

If you now have a power problem, you may have tripped your breaker on the inverter/charger. Open the outside compartment, find the inverter/charger and look for a circuit breaker on the side if it.
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Old 09-11-2020, 11:58 AM   #4
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Sorry let me clear that up.
I had Generator Running
Shore power connected

Then measured the input/output lines on the 501 TS

They all showed power so that verified that the generator was powering the coach with priority and the shore power was at the relay but had not switched over.

When I shut down the generator the Line out to the coach still showed power so that indicated that the shore power was no powering the system. But on stepping into the coach the panel showed L1-125 v L2-125 Volt But did not acknowledge 50 amp shore power connected. When I hit the on off button on the Inverter panel to turn the charger on, I get no JOY and the Inverter does not see the incoming shore power.

The inverter panel I have allows you to set shore power limits for amperage. But in this case if I jit the SHORE button on the inverter panel it shows no power. (This was immediately after verifying the shore power at the transfer switch and Line out of the switch as well.)

If I then go back to start the Generator again everything immediately pops back online.
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Old 09-11-2020, 12:02 PM   #5
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Breaker on inverter charger has no issue. As mentioned when I see I have no shore power inside the coach even though it is all connected, I can start the Generator again and see immediately that the inverter charger and everything else functions correctly.

I started the day on shore power with no issue. Then drove to the horse show with the generator running for the entire drive. Then parked and plugged in to their shore power which I verified was good first.

That's when I had the issue.

Returned home to my shore power plugin that had been used previously and still had the same issue.
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Old 09-11-2020, 12:07 PM   #6
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Odd thing about this all. Is I shut down the batteries overnight. When I plugged into shore again this morning after having the RV totally disconnected. The shore came on with no issues.

Leads me to think there is some Electrical Management System box that's not firing on all cylinders. The trick is to find it without a wiring diagram.
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Old 09-11-2020, 01:14 PM   #7
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It is never good to transfer power between the generator and shore power under load. The proper way is to shut down the generator before you connect the shore power cord, or disconnect shore power before starting the generator. Because the phase relationship will not be matched between the two supplies, changing with any power in use will cause an electric surge that is hard on the ATS and can damage things that are in use. The degree of surge will depend on how much power is in use and how far out of sync the two power supplies are. If you make a practice of changing under load, there is a good chance that your ATS has failed.
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Old 09-12-2020, 09:12 PM   #8
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Testing the ATS 501 with a multi-meter shows that it is functioning correctly but just in case there are some built in smoke and mirrors making the thing function, I'm going to replace the unit with an ATS503 tomorrow. I'll follow up from there if the issue is solved.

Thanks all
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Old 09-12-2020, 09:58 PM   #9
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[QUOTE=pilotag;5435917]2011 Monaco Diplomat 43 DFT
Very puzzling question that does not make much sense without a wiring diagram and wondering if anyone else has seen this issue.
Disconnected Shore power this morning with the Generator on. No problems.
Everything worked as advertised.
On reconnecting shore power later in the afternoon, it would not come on at all.
Management panel showed I had L1 and L2 power 125 Volts
But on generator power down the shore power did not take over.

Checked the transfer (ATS501) switch. With Generator and Shore powered I measured the input from each and got the correct voltage from each wire. Checked the Line to RV and voltages were perfect. Shut down the generator and the Shore Power still showed correct voltage at the pins in the ATS501
The line out also showed power. So it seems not a transfer switch issue.

When you shut down the generator the contacts will stay connected while the generator spools down the generator voltage does not drop instantly at some point the contacts switch over at the time if you have any 120 appliances running there will be a significant arc at the disconnecting contacts and again on the shore power contacts.

Over time this will eat away at the surface material of the contacts causing resistance it is possible to pass measurable voltage through the contacts but no enough current to power anything.
You should never switch without turning everything off or tripping the circuit breakers.
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Old 09-13-2020, 03:50 PM   #10
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Lets not confuse "best practice" with functional problems. It's a good idea to avoid switching between live genset and live shore power, but it's supposed to function correctly. It just causes increased wear & tear on the ATS and maybe some funky power situations at whatever appliances were operating at the time.

You checked voltage at the ATS but apparently the inverter wasn't seeing it. That suggests that shore power line voltage was not reaching the load center (breaker panel). You may have a powerline monitor in between (Surge Guard, Progressive, etc) or maybe some problem as yet unknown.

The sales brochure for your coach lists a "power control system", so I suspect you have a Surge Guard, Progressive or similar unit. That would inhibit power if it found something wrong, e.g. open ground. Apparently it is physically located between the ATS and the load center. Shouldn't be hard to find and may even has a remote display panel inside the coach.

https://www.monacocoach.com/resource...73_brc_pdf.pdf
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Old 09-13-2020, 05:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotag View Post
2011 Monaco Diplomat 43 DFT
Very puzzling question that does not make much sense without a wiring diagram and wondering if anyone else has seen this issue.
Disconnected Shore power this morning with the Generator on. No problems.
Everything worked as advertised.
On reconnecting shore power later in the afternoon, it would not come on at all.
Management panel showed I had L1 and L2 power 125 Volts
But on generator power down the shore power did not take over.

Checked the transfer (ATS501) switch. With Generator and Shore powered I measured the input from each and got the correct voltage from each wire. Checked the Line to RV and voltages were perfect. Shut down the generator and the Shore Power still showed correct voltage at the pins in the ATS501
The line out also showed power. So it seems not a transfer switch issue.

The Inverter comes on and powers the appliances while drawing down the batteries but the shore power does not offer a charge side at all.

As mentioned though, with the Generator on, there are no issues at all which would tend to indicate that the inverter is also fine.

LAST BIT of troubleshooting. I disconnected the batteries overnight. Plugged in shore power the next morning and everything came on again as it should.

Anyone out there know what this could be and has anyone seen a wiring diagram for this coach.

Thank you all.
I am digging back into old and dusty memory. If I recall correctly there is a fusible?? link in the ATS. I had to replace one many years ago. It controls the switching. Or, you may have a damaged relay. That ATS is a good workhorse.
You did check the tightness of the ATS leads?

Rick Y
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Old 10-27-2020, 03:35 PM   #12
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Transfer Switch

Sorry for being late to the show on this, but I think something got ďhung upĒ when you switched between shore power and generator. My owners manual and everything Iíve read says to disconnect loads when shifting between power sources. Also, there is a delay built in when switching between generator and shore power.
I have some wiring diagrams I got from REV that might be of some help to you. I have a 2012, but I think most of the stuff is the same. PM me with your email address and I will send them to you.
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2012 Diplomat 43DFT
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Old 10-27-2020, 05:42 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotag View Post
Odd thing about this all. Is I shut down the batteries overnight. When I plugged into shore again this morning after having the RV totally disconnected. The shore came on with no issues.

Leads me to think there is some Electrical Management System box that's not firing on all cylinders. The trick is to find it without a wiring diagram.





When you disconnected the batteries with no generator or shore power you may have reset a component in your power management system, allowing the overall system to function properly.
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