Slow Jack Retraction in Cold Weather

[Winemaker2]

Originally Posted by marjoa

Not sure where you all get your information but all the above answers are false.

I do agree that conventional WD-40 doesn't contain silicone but they are now marketing WD-40 branded products that do - rather confusing to many users
I don't agree with all of your point re: HWH recommendation

Is there something I can lubricate my jacks with to make them retract faster? How long should it take to completely retract my jacks?

Lubricating a jack rod can help with retraction time but if lubrication is necessary, there is most likely a problem with the springs or the jack itself. The only thing HWH recommends to use is WD-40. Refer to the following link for jack maintenance information: ml47149.pdf. The following link gives detailed information about allowable jack retraction times: mi9553.pdf

the following is right from the HWH Maintenance Bulletin:

Maintenance for jacks that will not store or retract slowly.
AND STRAIGHT-ACTING/PIVOTING JACKS.
If jack will not retract and it is determined that the jack is the problem, extend the jack slightly more. Then spray a liberal amount of WD-40 on the jack rod. Store the jack as you normally would. If the jack will still not retract, contact HWH for assistance. The cylinder will have to be replaced or repaired. If a jack is slow to retract, before storing the jacks, spray a liberal amount of WD-40 on the jack rod(s) and store the jacks as you normally would. xcess WD-40 should be removed from the jack or jack foot after storing the jacks. Cleaning the jack rod as explained above should be done.
Using WD-40 to assist in the retracting of jacks will probably not be a permanent fix. Anytime a jack needs assistance when retracting, some type of repair of the jack such as new springs or replacement of the jack will be needed to make a permanent repair. If the system is still in warranty, contact HWH customer service as soon as possible to get assistance in
making the repair. If the system is out of warranty, there are options such as having a cylinder repaired or replacing the cylinder with a remanufactured unit if available. If desired, constant use of WD-40 to
assist the retraction of the jack(s) will not damage the jacks.]

[Monacoach]

Originally Posted by RKins

Mine too. You're really not lubing anything, when the rams retract they are now in a bath of ATF. The WD helps loosen the dirt that is on the outside/ground side of the seal/wiper. If you want a good lesson on what and what not to do call Chuck at Stuarts services (or talk to Paul (AZpete) here on the forum) - both are a wealth of HWH knowledge.

You state that when the rams are retracted they are in a bath of atf?
Are you sure about that? I would think that would only happen when a seal fails.

[Quincy]

Originally Posted by ElvistheKing

Whilst WD40 isn't designed as a lubricant (it's Water Dispersant formulation try 40) it does contain a lot of silicon, which *is* a lubricant, especially for rubber components which in addition will absorb some of the silicon keeping it pliable. You could instead use silicon spray which would be just as effective but why carry 2 products when one will do.

It should also be noted to be careful around painted surfaces using silicone spray or WD40, it won't damage them BUT it makes respraying them much harder if you need to after damage, etc.

OK I finally tried to settle the WD-40 debate by research but I am not sure. It calls itself a cleaner but when you read the ingredients and the uses it has petroleum based products in it and many of the listed uses indicate it IS a lubricant. So, I found no info from the mfg that it is a lubricant but did find allot of evidence it lubricates or at least leaves a film on what it touches.

I report you decide.

[Jim Estes]

Originally Posted by greygoose

We have a 2006 Winnebago Adventurer and in very cold weather (for us in Florida that is about freezing), my HWH jacks can take over an hour to fully retract. Otherwise they work fine. Anyone else with that problem?

Wipe the rams down with (ATF )Automatic Transmission Fluid..,wipe off excess and clean debris of ram...that makes a big difference with my Meridian...

[RKins]

Originally Posted by Monacoach

You state that when the rams are retracted they are in a bath of atf?
Are you sure about that? I would think that would only happen when a seal fails.

That is usually what is in the hydraulic system - ATF with Dexron III. That is what is in mine (I was told to make sure it had the Dexron III) - I replaced the pump and reservoir. So when the rams pull back into the jack they are in ATF.

[Winemaker2]

Originally Posted by Monacoach

You state that when the rams are retracted they are in a bath of atf?
Are you sure about that? I would think that would only happen when a seal fails.

Originally Posted by RKins

That is usually what is in the hydraulic system - ATF with Dexron III. That is what is in mine (I was told to make sure it had the Dexron III) - I replaced the pump and reservoir. So when the rams pull back into the jack they are in ATF.

I see a lot of comments here on iRV2 about this and believe there is a fair amount of confusion.

On Single acting - Spring return jacks / cylinders - that I believe most of us have - When the ram is retracted there is very little Hyd Oil in the Cyl bore and none around the ram (see diagrams attached - note return springs are external on MHs vs internal as shown)
When the jack / ram is extended the internal bore is flooded with Hyd Oil but the ram is now outside of this cavity and when the spring retracts the ram the Hyd oil is forced back out of the cyl bore and back to the reservoir.
The rubber seals at the bottom of the cylinders are essentially wipers / dirt / dust seals to prevent dirt from getting up inside the cyl bore. In addition to the recommended WD-40 or wiping w/ ATF I have found a Q-Tip is useful to clean these dirt seals / wipers

I think some folks are thinking of a double acting / powered return cylinder/ jack system but as far as I know this type system is much less common on most MH's.
In the Double acting cyl there is Hyd oil in both upper & lower chambers of the cyl bore and does surround / coat the ram when retracted.

Simple answers are often never that simple - it depends on your system.
If you have springs they do the return and not the hyd oil / pump.

I am also under the impression (maybe azpete can chime in and confirm or dispell any bad info) that the ID of the cyl bore is not chrome plated like the ram OD and is one of the reasons HWH recommends periodic exercise of the system - to lube / coat the ID vs leaving them retracted (and not in Hyd Oil bath) for extended periods.

[gerdutch]

Thanks, Winemaker! Clears it up for me....

[Vicr]

A picture is worth a thousand words.

[RKins]

I think that we need to decide which systems we are talking about.

The HWH system I have (610) has jacks with have external springs and the rams slide into the housing as they retract.


I was under the coach (while on ramps) and examining the jacks as I tried to figure out why I had a lazy jack after replacing all the springs (old pic above) spraying, wiping the ram, etc. and it still being lazy. I even took a small wide jewel screwdriver to gently clear any debris from the wiper around the ram, which is about 1" up from the end of the outer casing in the pic above. The ram recedes and ends up in a bath of ATF. Not sure how that works out with your diagrams.
To this day I still have a 50/50 chance on the front jacks being lazy.
As for spraying the rams with WD40, I will periodically and feel good about it (not sure why).

BTW, this is not anything other than a bunch of info for the lurkers that never post and also the people that are trying to learn.

[Winemaker2]

Originally Posted by RKins

I think that we need to decide which systems we are talking about.

The HWH system I have (610) has jacks with have external springs and the rams slide into the housing as they retract.


I was under the coach (while on ramps) and examining the jacks as I tried to figure out why I had a lazy jack after replacing all the springs (old pic above) spraying, wiping the ram, etc. and it still being lazy. I even took a small wide jewel screwdriver to gently clear any debris from the wiper around the ram, which is at the end of the pic above. The ram recedes (as I was told by both people mentioned above) and ends up in a bath of ATF. Not sure how that works out with your diagrams.
To this day I still have a 50/50 chance on the front jacks being lazy.
As for spraying the rams with WD40, I will periodically.

I don't know how to explain it any better than I have.
HWH has excellent online trouble shooting guides. I have disconnected the hyd line feeding the ram to see if that helped speed up retraction.
If it doesn't help problem is likely internal in the jack.
If it helps problem more likely in the module at the pump/valves.

HWH will rebuild jacks if you determine that is the problem and not the shuttle valve. Rebuild costs seem reasonable if you can afford the time which will depend on workload.

[MikeandClaudia]

I had all kinds of problems with my jacks: Retracting slowly, not retracting at all (I had to take an automotive jack and jack them up, etc. I and bought my MH when it was about 5 years old.

I made an appointment in Moscow, Iowa with HWH. They checked my jacks. They happened to have 4 rebuilt jacks on hand, after they determined they were bad, and they replaced all 4 of my jacks (at that time approx. 15 years old) with re-built jacks for about the same money as ONE new one would cost.
Since I had an appointment, they got me in the day of the appointment, and it took about 3-4 hours to replace them. As it was about 5:30 when they finished, they even let me spend the night there WITH HOOKUPS.
NOTE: This was in August and they were crazy busy. I had told them when I made the appointment that I probably needed new jacks, and they had 4
re-built ones for me. I don't know if that was by luck, or because I am so good looking.

Now it is 18 years old and the jacks have worked Flawlessly since being replaced.

It may be worth a trip to Moscow.

[Quincy]

Originally Posted by Vicr

A picture is worth a thousand words.

I will have to adjust my statements to say "the original WD-40 is a cleaner not a lubricant " So if you are using one of the spin offs, they all seem to be lubricants.

[RKins]

Originally Posted by Winemaker2

I don't know how to explain it any better than I have.
HWH has excellent online trouble shooting guides. I have disconnected the hyd line feeding the ram to see if that helped speed up retraction.
If it doesn't help problem is likely internal in the jack.
If it helps problem more likely in the module at the pump/valves.

HWH will rebuild jacks if you determine that is the problem and not the shuttle valve. Rebuild costs seem reasonable if you can afford the time which will depend on workload.

The only thing I haven't replaced is the jacks and the lines to the jacks - all else is brand new or rebuilt. So I agree that is probably the jacks - sometimes they come right up, sometimes they don't. I go through my new routine now of raising the coach 6" higher than it was before I hit store and it seems I have a better chance of them retracting without help. I think if I'm up in Moscow, Iowa I might entertain rebuilding them. They rebuilt all my solenoids - 4 for what they quoted me for one new one.