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Old 04-22-2021, 02:09 PM   #15
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series, parallel???

I feel like i can add a little bit to the conversation...

We used to live on an off grid sailboat, with solar.

people always like to compare water to electric so here goes..

think of series as a firehose and parallel as garden hoses.

one could argue that filling a 5 gallon bucket (battery) with 1 firehose or 4 garden hoses the bucket will fill faster with the fire hose...

now comes the shading or your neighbor parking on your hose.
firehose would be reduced to a trickle, but you still have 3 garden hoses filling the bucket.


now there's also another way....

1 charger for each panel, yep 4 panels and 4 chargers...

this is the best but not the cheapest way to power your off grid what ever. and what I had on our boat.

That is why some people do the series/parallel option, this does help with shading but there's a catch if each leg of the series has a panel shaded you still loose the benefit of parallel.

example 4 panels a+b and c+d

a and b get shaded you still get power from c and d

but if b and c get shaded you wont get any usable power....


I would also like to add try getting the highest voltage panels your charge controller will handle so if your charge controller will handle 60V then get a 60 volt panel, or two 30v panels if in series.

coming back in for an edit..

the reason you want a higher voltage panel if you can is....
first thing in the morning or late afternoon you aren't getting full sun so the panel isn't outputting much... 8am that 18v panel might only be putting out 10v but a 60v panel might be putting out 30v 10v isn't enough to charge a 12 battery but 30v is....

hope this helps


Bob
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Old 04-22-2021, 03:07 PM   #16
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Another thing to remember about solar panels is that most these days have a built-in bypass diode. If the panel is in shade and not producing any power, the diode will allow power from the panels that are producing to pass through. If you have 4 panels in series and one is in shade, the current from the other 3 will still get through to the controller. One manufacturer even uses bypass diodes between the individual cells in the panel. A partially shaded (or even broken) panel can still produce power. I had this happen when a tree branch fell on one of mine.
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Old 04-22-2021, 03:51 PM   #17
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I’m thinking right now I will do a series parallel setup. Two legs, each with two 12 volt panels in parallel (24 volts). The wiring will have a factor of two safety margin. I’m looking at maybe adding a third leg of 200 watts total ... but can’t verify the size of the panels just now.

I can’t do the one controller per panel thing, as I only have one pair of wires run from roof to basement... cool idea though
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Old 04-23-2021, 03:02 PM   #18
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you know .... it is incredibly frustrating trying to actually talk to someone at any of the solar supply companies .... much less getting reasonable answers out of them.

QUESTION: has anyone used the Zamp solar panels????? instead of coming with two discrete positive and negative leads each with their own connectors, they come with a single SAE two conductor connector (with positive and negative in a single connector). It seems like these are explicitly made assuming a fully series connection. how on earth do you use these panels in a series configuration without needing to cut into the wires and do some soldering or crimping using butt connectors...?????? I just can not find any answers to this out there...
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Old 04-23-2021, 03:24 PM   #19
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I just bought 4 of these:


https://richsolar.com/products/200-watt-solar-panel


I have one laying loose up on the roof of the RV now plugged into the box the dealer installed for me so I can get a feel for how the system will work. As for plugs if they don't come equipped like the one I linked to, which virtually all do, then move on to something else.
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Old 04-23-2021, 03:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
QUESTION: has anyone used the Zamp solar panels????? instead of coming with two discrete positive and negative leads each with their own connectors, they come with a single SAE two conductor connector (with positive and negative in a single connector). It seems like these are explicitly made assuming a fully series connection. how on earth do you use these panels in a series configuration without needing to cut into the wires and do some soldering or crimping using butt connectors...?????? I just can not find any answers to this out there...

I believe the SAE connectors are meant for a single panel to a single charge controller. I can't see them being useful for any series or parallel set of panels. Check out Amazon for MC4 and MC3 connectors - they are almost universally used for solar installations, are cheap and waterproof.
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Old 04-23-2021, 04:58 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by keefr View Post
I believe the SAE connectors are meant for a single panel to a single charge controller. I can't see them being useful for any series or parallel set of panels. Check out Amazon for MC4 and MC3 connectors - they are almost universally used for solar installations, are cheap and waterproof.
Yeah - I more or less came to the same conclusion. I got sucked into them via looking at the AM Solar website, where they are selling Zamp panels, which use the SAE connectors. They **do** have a combiner box, which they call a "roof port" .... but they are a rather simple buss based combiner with all the connections thus being parallel .... and it is only limited to three inputs .... no fuses, breakers or anything like that. Zamp is attractive because all the components (including the panels) are manufactured in Oregon .... but the more I look at them, they are really focused on portables, and small (van and trailer) installations. Plus, you literally can not talk to a human there. too bad.....

I know what I am going to do. I'll pull the trigger on that, then post here (dont want things to go out of stock before I order them....)
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Old 04-23-2021, 05:25 PM   #22
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ok .... i've been seeing panels go out of stock, so I wanted to get that order placed. After much head scratching and fussing around, including questions around panel dimensions, mounting hardware (or rather potential incompatabilities between panel and hardware, even when sold by the same supplier), and whether you can readily mix and match panels of different size (that is a different question I will post in a little bit), I went back to where I started - Renogy and their Z-brackets. four 200 watt panels:

https://www.renogy.com/200-watt-12-v...e-solar-panel/

I believe I will also get the Renogy 100 amp charge controller with bluetooth module:

https://www.renogy.com/rover-100-amp...ge-controller/

but want to look around just a little at other options. the panels were the really critical thing to get on the way...

Rssnape - I have grown to really like your option of the pre-wired combiner box, pulling the #6 wires in the roof through the bottom, and sealing the thing up. many, many advantages to that (addition of other circuits, isolation of a problem circuit, etc, etc. Just ordered the last one Amazon said they had (hopefully it actually exists....).

I think what I will do is have the dealer put on ONLY the combiner box, as they are used to cutting into the roof to access the pre-wired wires .... then I can take care of the rest of the installation myself. with the box in place and sealed up, things can be taken a step at a time from there....
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Old 04-23-2021, 05:48 PM   #23
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ok .... I went with the Renogy 100 amp charge controller. This will take a couple weeks at least to play out, so I will keep an eye out for any other posts, and periodically update....

thank you all for your input and suggestions - they have helped incredibly!
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Old 05-11-2021, 06:15 PM   #24
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ok ... a little bit of an update. This has, as expected, taken some time, due to my own time limitations, as well as ordering and shipping time. Panels are in (6 of them!), but those are actually the very last things to get installed. (I ordered them first thing, because panels were going out of stock). As I have been able to, I have been poking away at this, but am making progress, so will hopefully catch up with where I actually am.

The Renogy 100 Amp charge controller is BIG, and somewhat heavy. the separator between where the cables drop down (in the forward storage compartment, right behind the battery compartment) is something like 1/4" plywood. Because of the weight of the controller, I decided to fabricate a couple aluminum brackets to carry the weight instead of just relying on the plywood. that worked out really, really well .... but I dont have photos, so that will need to wait for a later post (sorry). But for now, leave it that the controller, and the 40 amp circuit breaker is snugly in place close to the batteries.

the math says I need 4 gauge wire between the controller and the batteries, so part of what I have been doing is finding the correct battery cable, and the correct copper lug connectors, AND the correct hydraulic crimper to do the correct/safe job of putting connectors on the wires (both the 6 gauge coming from the roof, and the 4 gauge from the controller to the batteries. Funny thing - the crimpers are sold out almost everywhere, and the correct copper lug connectors are equally hard to find.

Aside - why are so many people making/crimping battery connectors at this particular moment in time?????? --- end aside

Anyway, decided to take this afternoon to tackle the roof-prep for wiring. got up on the roof, took off the plate for the solar prep (really just a marker for location), scraped off the dicor, removed the screwed in aluminum plate, and cleaned up the rest of the dicor (per directions, mineral spirits works VERY well in removing remaining dicor - at least on my fiberglass roof), got out the 2" hole saw and mandrel I bought from HF .... only to find that the saw and mandrel were NOT compatible (even thought they were located right next to each other). Sigh.... (no that is NOT quite what I said), and took off for the nearest home depot. After returning ~45 minutes later, drilled through at the center of the located spot .... and believe it or not the red and black 6 gauge solar wires were Right There mixed in with the insulation. bending and Pulling them up through a 2" hole was not he easiest, but up them came. put them through my pass through cap, screwed down the cap, chose the best (I think ) location for the combiner box (attached only with 3M VHB bond to avoid more holes in the roof), and this is what you got (if I can attach a photo correctly):

With that combiner box in place, now all I need to do is complete the wiring around the controller (waiting for lug connectors and shrink wrap to come in), then I can add the panels themselves somewhat piecemeal. Here is a picture of the roof looking backwards from the front of the coach)

Its not quite clear, but there is room for 3 big 200W panels along the right hand (drivers) side, and where I am standing there is room for a fourth 200W panel. those will be put in as series/parallel (2 circuits each with 2 panels in series - giving about 40 volts to the combiner box with 800W power possible). Along the left side there is room for two 100W panels, again to be wired in series, again giving about 40 volts, and another 100W, for a total of 900W potential.

Yes, there is room to walk around all this to maintain the roof - this is a BIG coach with 8 batteries to feed. I might just install the "easier" 100W panels first, just to help with keeping the batteries charged while in storage

Anyway, I need to wait for those lugs to come in to complete the wiring in the basement (wont take long once I have them). then I need my son to help raising those panels up onto the roof, AND I need to wait until the panels are in place to order the correct lengths of connector wire to interconnect the panels. Patience, patience......

Will try to continue to post as progress is made.
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Old 05-16-2021, 10:47 AM   #25
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ok .... got four of my six panels mounted on the roof yesterday (the other two can wait, this is enough to get started....). Now all I need to do is finalize the wiring interconnects on the roof (waiting for cable and connectors to come in), and finalize the wiring from the charge controller to the batteries (luckily I have all the pieces for that.....). Hopefully by the end of this week I will have this up and running....
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Old 05-17-2021, 07:07 AM   #26
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Nice work MN Traveler.
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Old 05-17-2021, 07:36 AM   #27
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Nice work MN Traveler.


Thanks. I have only wanted solar for, what? Five years or more?
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