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Old 03-20-2020, 02:16 PM   #57
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Alotta talk

With all of the prior discussion I am surprised that no one remarked about Joe's Super Steer that he says he is working the bugs out.

"I have an after market Super Steer Bell Crank. I recently bought still working out bugs."

I do not know what a Super Steer Bell Crank is but I think he needs help with it.
Everybody has heard of Newmar's Comfort Steer and understand how that works, don't know anything about Super Steer but assume it is supposed to help in the same way.

I hope he posts what the cure was after he figures it out.
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Old 03-20-2020, 08:31 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud Dancer View Post
Exactly what is the force that "pulls" it to the right? NOBODY has been able to explain it,....because there is NO such force.
Next question: Why does it have a tendency to self-steer to the right? I'll first explain the one where the "crown" in the road is the culprit. Due to the "crown", the motorhome TILTS to the right. This causes a weight transfer from left to right. This means that now the right steer tire is carrying a heavier load than the left steer tire. This causes the rolling resistance of the right steer tire to be higher than the rolling resistance of the left steer tire. This causes a RESISTIVE force to push straight back on the right steering spindle. This causes BOTH steer tires to turn to the right. And this is the reason the driver has to counter with an opposite steering force.
When the MH tilts to the right why is there a weight transfer to the right? It's because there is a difference between center of gravity and center of mass.
In this case the center of mass has a height dimension, a lateral dimension, and a fore/aft dimension. On a motorhome, the center of mass is quite HIGH. This means that if the MH tilts to the right, the center of mass will displace to the right. GRAVITY pulls straight down THROUGH the center of mass.
There can be OTHER reasons why a MH might have a tendency to self steer to one side or the other.
Sorry Cloud Dancer, I’ll have to disagree with you. There is a force, as I tried to explain to you in a previous post and the force is “gravity” and it’s really hard to get away from it. If you have a street with a crown in it, meaning the center is higher than the outer edges, throw a bucket of water on it and gravity will draw the water to the lower edge. If you roll a tire straight down the same street and release it, it will eventually toll to the lower side of the street, and off into the ditch, which is even lower. Now put two tires on the street with a motor coach on top of them and with no other influence applied to the direction of the tires, they will roll off the low side of the street, all due to gravity.
Freightliner, and other vehicle manufacturers, have a special setting in their alignment specifications to make the steering pull to the left to offset the gravity pull to the low right side of the road. This is also accomplished with the use of gravity on the steering mechanism.
I can easily demonstrate all my claims of results on alignment specs.

Your explanation is saying that a left front tire loaded heavier than the right tire would result in a pull to the left. While I think this is technically correct, I think the difference would be so minor that it wouldn’t be noticed.
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Old 03-20-2020, 08:48 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbe111 View Post
With all of the prior discussion I am surprised that no one remarked about Joe's Super Steer that he says he is working the bugs out.

"I have an after market Super Steer Bell Crank. I recently bought still working out bugs."

I do not know what a Super Steer Bell Crank is but I think he needs help with it.
Everybody has heard of Newmar's Comfort Steer and understand how that works, don't know anything about Super Steer but assume it is supposed to help in the same way.

I hope he posts what the cure was after he figures it out.
I missed that part of the post, speed reading doesn't work well here.
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Old 03-20-2020, 08:59 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbe111 View Post

"I have an after market Super Steer Bell Crank. I recently bought still working out bugs."

I do not know what a Super Steer Bell Crank is but I think he needs help with it.
The "Super Steer Bell Crank" is only the support for the cross rod in the steering system.

It will stop the wandering, but have no effect on pull right or left.

I replaced mine on our P30 chassis, and it really helped the "loose" feeling of the steering.

IMHO a good alignment with a little extra (2-3) degrees of castor will cure the problem.

Happy Glamping.
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Old 03-21-2020, 09:24 AM   #61
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On my '05 Winnebago Vectra I had IFS. The pull fight would wear me out by the end of the day. I had it aligned at a truck stop and it helped a bit, but... The front tires started to wear unevenly and had edge cupping. I think the above trip to Freightliner in Gaffney would have been the wiser thing to do. They corrected the problem cause instead of compensated for the symptom.
With this coach, the tires are wearing correctly and the TruCenter is a great asset. When I get back east I plan to stop into Freightliner and have the chassis gone through. I like the idea of having them do a total alignment on it.
As far as the bell crank goes, it needs to be greased to work. Most fail because this is not done enough. When it gets loose you can feel it on the wheel, as you would with a bad tie rod end. I don't know how much freer the control of the steering wheel is with the SS unit installed. I couldn't justify the $$$$.
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Old 03-21-2020, 09:55 AM   #62
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I bought a Super Steer bell crank for my previous MH, a '88 Itasca on a Chevy chassis. This is a bell crank made with tapered roller bearing on the pivot shaft instead of bushings.

I found the movement of the bearings was very gritty feeling so took the cap off and disassembled the bearings and cleaned them in solvent. I found there was grit in the new bearing so called Super Steer and spoke to the guy that assembles them. Found out he was not cleaning the new bearings before greasing them and assembling it. He thought they looked clean enough.

All new tapered roller bearings need to be cleaned prior to assembling to remove the machining grit and oil.
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Old 03-21-2020, 10:20 AM   #63
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Think I'll just sit back with my pop corn and watch. Maybe this "Tire Pull" chat will reach the level of the "Tire Pressure" show.
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Old 03-21-2020, 10:36 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadman View Post
I bought a Super Steer bell crank for my previous MH, a '88 Itasca on a Chevy chassis. This is a bell crank made with tapered roller bearing on the pivot shaft instead of bushings.

I found the movement of the bearings was very gritty feeling so took the cap off and disassembled the bearings and cleaned them in solvent. I found there was grit in the new bearing so called Super Steer and spoke to the guy that assembles them. Found out he was not cleaning the new bearings before greasing them and assembling it. He thought they looked clean enough.

All new tapered roller bearings need to be cleaned prior to assembling to remove the machining grit and oil.
I have yet to find new bearings to be gritty out of the box. This sounds more like there was residue in the SuperSteer housing that the new bearings were installed. Or they were laid on a dirty worktable before assembly. All bearing manufacturing clean the bearings before lubrication at the plant. They would be out of business in a hurry if it is expected that the installer has to flush the grease out, dry and regrease.
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Old 03-21-2020, 12:15 PM   #65
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As mentioned here already, swap front tires side to side and see what happens. If it feels good I would leave it. If it’s pulling in the opposite direction, you have what’s called a radial pull. The only fix for that is a new tire..
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Old 03-21-2020, 04:22 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by alank View Post
Sorry Cloud Dancer, I’ll have to disagree with you. There is a force, as I tried to explain to you in a previous post and the force is “gravity” and it’s really hard to get away from it. If you have a street with a crown in it, meaning the center is higher than the outer edges, throw a bucket of water on it and gravity will draw the water to the lower edge. If you roll a tire straight down the same street and release it, it will eventually toll to the lower side of the street, and off into the ditch, which is even lower. Now put two tires on the street with a motor coach on top of them and with no other influence applied to the direction of the tires, they will roll off the low side of the street, all due to gravity.
Freightliner, and other vehicle manufacturers, have a special setting in their alignment specifications to make the steering pull to the left to offset the gravity pull to the low right side of the road. This is also accomplished with the use of gravity on the steering mechanism.
I can easily demonstrate all my claims of results on alignment specs.
Your explanation is saying that a left front tire loaded heavier than the right tire would result in a pull to the left. While I think this is technically correct, I think the difference would be so minor that it wouldn’t be noticed.
*
Sorry, Alank,...but you are talking about something different. Whereas, I am refferring to the wording of the thread title,.."Steering pulling to the right". Obviously, Joe is refferring to what he feels at the steering wheel, therefore he uses the word "steering". But, he uses the word "pulling" as well. I take excepting because there is NO pulling force in this case. The fact is that a steering action (with steering resulting), involves the the main source of energy, which is the substantial mass of the motorhome which is moving forward at a substantial speed. A steering action is NOT a side force that pulls the front of the motorhome to the side! THERE IS NO SUCH FORCE! A steering action is when the driver, or something else turns the steering wheel (somehow). What actually happens is that the major force of the mass moving forward is what PUSHES the front end to the side BUT ONLY IF THE FRONT STEER TIRES are steered, and if they are on a traction surface.
There are several events which cause cause the motorhome to self steer. IF its traveling on the slight slope of a "crowned" road, it's the INCREASED ROLLING RESISTANCE of the "down slope" tire which causes the self steer tendency. I have already explained why and how it happens.
Others believe that gravity pulls the motorhome to the downslope side. But, gravity does not do that. The slope would have to be much steeper for that to happen (steep enough to SKID the whole thing sideways).
You can prove to yourself that you can feel, at the steering wheel, even a slight difference in rolling resistance between the two front steer tires. All you need to do is drive your car on the interstate highway with a front tire 10 psi low on air pressure.
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Old 03-21-2020, 08:37 PM   #67
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My class ‘04 A Holiday Rambler pulled to left. Single rear axle, dual wheels, 12 ton gvw. Went thru all the usual stuff, no cure. Weighed it on individual wheel scales after empting the bays and found out the left rear was several hundred pounds more than the right rear. Front tires were within 50 lbs of each other with the left being the heavier. I have two slides only on the left, this is the only explaination I could figure caused it. Started running 5 lbs more air in the left rear tires than what the mfg tire tag suggested, problem solved. No tire wear issues after 10k miles so far.
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Old 03-21-2020, 08:47 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by padillab View Post
Hello JOE248'
Just saw this thread while holed up during the corona crisis.
Here is what Airstream recommends for my 2005 Airstream Land Yacht Gas 30 SO.

https://www.irv2.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1584712332

This answers your original question.
That diagram information is not complete and can lead to premature tire failure.. Both tires in a dual configuration must be within 1/4" in diameter or both tires will wear unevenly.
reference: https://www.doublecointires.com/wp-c...-InfoSheet.pdf
Who is to be believed? Vehicle mfgr. or tire mfgr.?
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Old 03-23-2020, 08:07 PM   #69
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My Newmar with comfort steer did. not pull, but the wheel was cocked about 20 degrees left. My right front tire was wearing on the outside as if the toe was off. When the wear was too much for safety, I replaced it with a new Michlin RV steer tire and the steering wheel is now centered. The tire expert said it was just a bad tire as “Goodyear May Pops” were the Usual Suspect. I will get another Michlin to match the new one soon. The expert did check the alignment and it was good.

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Old 03-24-2020, 01:34 PM   #70
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My previous Travel Supreme Select 45 has front severe weather the outer 1 3/4 inch of front tires . Had alignment and toe checked and was right on. Suggested faulty Michelin tires . Michelin would not adjust. Put on new Bridgestones and problem went away.
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