Steps not working

[TriMoot]

Steps will not go out or go in.

Background: We drove from Spokane Washington to Melbourne Beach Florida with no problems with the steps. But now we have been parked since October 31.

There was one instance where I needed to start the engine to level the coach and by design the steps came in, but when I went to put them back out, after I was done leveling the coach and the engine was off, they wouldn’t go back out.

I fiddled with the salesmanship switch where you turn off the chassis power and the coach power, I fiddled with turning the power off and at the 30 amp circuit panel as well as starting the rig and they wouldn’t work, and then just as I was putting some wood out in order to step up, I open the door and all of a sudden they went in and out, in and out, in and out and finally stuck out.

So I thought I would eventually get to troubleshooting it but tonight we had a bit of an emergency and I had to start the engine and lower the front jacks, the steps went in and now I can’t get them back out.

Ideas?

[HarryStone]

If you have Kwikee steps, likely you have corrosion in the connector under the stairs. Remove power to the stairs first, then crawl underneath and disconnect the connectors going to the step controller, clean out as best as you can, then try again. The controller, and the motor both can go out on the steps. I have provided the troubleshooting guide for the steps, if in fact, they are Kwikee.
https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd_0001628.pdf

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by TriMoot

Steps will not go out or go in.

Background: We drove from Spokane Washington to Melbourne Beach Florida with no problems with the steps. But now we have been parked since October 31.

There was one instance where I needed to start the engine to level the coach and by design the steps came in, but when I went to put them back out, after I was done leveling the coach and the engine was off, they wouldn’t go back out.

I fiddled with the salesmanship switch where you turn off the chassis power and the coach power, I fiddled with turning the power off and at the 30 amp circuit panel as well as starting the rig and they wouldn’t work, and then just as I was putting some wood out in order to step up, I open the door and all of a sudden they went in and out, in and out, in and out and finally stuck out.

So I thought I would eventually get to troubleshooting it but tonight we had a bit of an emergency and I had to start the engine and lower the front jacks, the steps went in and now I can’t get them back out.

Ideas?

Well Sir,
First off, just for your info, it's *Salesman* switch, not "Salesmanship". Not that, that is that important. Second, that salesman switch, also known as the House battery switch, unless it's been modified, controls the power from THE HOUSE batteries only, not the chassis batteries. Maybe you have TWO battery control switches on your coach? Anyway, as far as your steps working, then not working, then working, as has been suggested, surely sounds like a potential bad connection or corrosion somewhere, and especially a ground.

And also, as has been suggested, do be ultra careful working on those steps and laying around them or anywhere near them with power hooked to them. Human fingers and hands don't pose even a minor threat to them as they extend and retract. Be careful!
Scott

[donasher]

I’ve had the same issue.

I used a magnet to test whether it is the sensor and issue is intermittent, so probably not the sensor.

Therefore it is likely the motor or connection. I unplugged and replugged the connection. No change.

I cut power to the steps with the switch. Then tapped lightly on the motor and steps now work for a few iterations. It likely is a motor issue with a bad spot. I tap whenever there is an issue.

Your issue is likely a sensor, connection or a bad motor.

[Ray,IN]

Originally Posted by donasher

I’ve had the same issue.

I used a magnet to test whether it is the sensor and issue is intermittent, so probably not the sensor.

Therefore it is likely the motor or connection. I unplugged and replugged the connection. No change.

I cut power to the steps with the switch. Then tapped lightly on the motor and steps now work for a few iterations. It likely is a motor issue with a bad spot. I tap whenever there is an issue.

Your issue is likely a sensor, connection or a bad motor.

The Kwikee service training manual covers all models.

[TriMoot]

Originally Posted by FIRE UP

Well Sir,
First off, just for your info, it's *Salesman* switch, not "Salesmanship". Not that, that is that important. Second, that salesman switch, also known as the House battery switch, unless it's been modified, controls the power from THE HOUSE batteries only, not the chassis batteries. Maybe you have TWO battery control switches on your coach? Anyway, as far as your steps working, then not working, then working, as has been suggested, surely sounds like a potential bad connection or corrosion somewhere, and especially a ground.

And also, as has been suggested, do be ultra careful working on those steps and laying around them or anywhere near them with power hooked to them. Human fingers and hands don't pose even a minor threat to them as they extend and retract. Be careful!
Scott

HA! Got it, Salesman switch. Sometimes I don't even listen to what comes out of my mouth....even on paper, so to speak.

Yes, two switches, one for the coach one for the chassis.

So I finally got around to removing the tin covering from the motor/gear area so I could tap on the motor and inspect the wiring. So far tapping hasn't produced any improvement and just eyeballing the wiring hasn't shown me anything.

I plan on getting into it more today, first thing I'll do is remove the two grounds and clean them, although visually they look fine. Then after that...not sure what to do.

Logically, the motor and gear box must be find as it retracts when I start the engine, just not going out....Hmm, I see where someone said to use a magnet to test the switch, not sure how that works, but I put a magnet on the frame side of the switch, nada.

Guess I just need to start checking on the connections. Oh, I did remove the cotter pin and pulled the pin holding the stairs up so I could use them. Looks a little funny with a step ladder by the door, only way we could get in and out.

One thing I did notice is my ATS switch doesn't appear to be working. Related? Not sure. And what I mean is, I normally hear a 'clunk' when I turn off the salesman switch (at least I 'think' I do) and I'm not hearing that now. So I went over to the front of the rig where the box with all the connectors, fuses and relays are and there's a test button that you can push to actuates the ATS switch manually, and it didn't work. I've done this before and it produces that 'clunk' sound, but this is the 1st time it hasn't done that. Related? Not sure, but sort of makes sense that it might be....BUT..simple things 1st!

I'll keep looking and report back.

Thanks!

[YC1]

A voltmeter should tell the story in seconds. Or better yet, a cheap 12 volt test light.

Clean a good shiny ground place for the alligator clip and stick the sharp probe into the plug that feeds the motor. Activate it and see if the light comes on. Check both wires that go into the motor. If the light comes on brightly you likely have a bad motor and they are easy enough to replace. I highly recommend taking the whole step assembly down. A simply jack beneath while you remove the four bolts or so and let it down gently. Inspect all the bolts. May are shoulder bolts and I have had several fail over time. With the assembly down you can get to the motor without straining and a set of jumper cables will let you test things.

[777 Driver]

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

The Kwikee service training manual covers all models.

That manual is an excellent resource for troubleshooting.

Look at page 36 for a thorough, logical process to identify the problem.

Take care,
Stu

[TriMoot]

Originally Posted by YC1

A voltmeter should tell the story in seconds. Or better yet, a cheap 12 volt test light.

Clean a good shiny ground place for the alligator clip and stick the sharp probe into the plug that feeds the motor. Activate it and see if the light comes on. Check both wires that go into the motor. If the light comes on brightly you likely have a bad motor and they are easy enough to replace. I highly recommend taking the whole step assembly down. A simply jack beneath while you remove the four bolts or so and let it down gently. Inspect all the bolts. May are shoulder bolts and I have had several fail over time. With the assembly down you can get to the motor without straining and a set of jumper cables will let you test things.

But the stairs retract when I turn on the engine, so I think the motor and gears and fine. Maybe I'll ohm out the door switch to make sure that's working.

[US1]

Not following this part, how are the stairs retracting when starting the motor? I understand the initial retraction, but for them to retract a 2nd time, they'd had to been extended, which as I understand they wont.

[TriMoot]

Originally Posted by US1

Not following this part, how are the stairs retracting when starting the motor? I understand the initial retraction, but for them to retract a 2nd time, they'd had to been extended, which as I understand they wont.

Right, when I say they retracted it was two days ago. But this scenario happened a month ago as well, which tells me the motor and gears might be okay....?

[HarryStone]

But it doesn’t do anything now, right? Follow the troubleshooting step outlined. You either have a bad controller, or a bad connection.

[FIRE UP]

Trimoot,
If I'm not mistaken, those step motors, just like our awning motor, and our step cover motor, DO NOT have a dedicated ground. Those motors use/have two wires. On my step cover motor, one wire is red, and one is yellow. But, those are what I'd call *reversing ground* motors. That is, and I'm purely guessing here. When asked to EXTEND the steps, one wire is the ground, and one is the positive. But, when asked to RETRACT, those two wires reverse their roles.

So, when you say your steps EXTEND fine, BUT, don't RETRACT, well, without being any form of an expert here, I'm guessing that, a controller sends the signals to that motor to command it to turn in one direction for extend, and the other direction to retract. If you're only getting a signal to EXTEND, then maybe the controller is not sending the signal to turn the the motor in the other direction.

A simple, BUT DANGEROUS experiment/test for this would be to:

1. Maybe disconnect the plug for the two wires to the motor.
2. Rig up two wires from your battery to the area of the plug for that motor.
3. BE VERY CAREFUL in these next parts.

4. Connect the negative from your battery, to one of the pins in the motor plug.
5. Now, just touch the positive wire to the other pin and, observe the motor's reaction. If your steps are already out, you maybe sending power in the manor that want's to keep extending.
6. Or, those steps may begin to retract.

7. A safer way of testing would be to completely disconnect the motor-to-step arm. That way, there's no real danger of the steps moving during these tests.

But, if you get good motor movement in both directions, then you've proved the motor is good and will extend and retract those steps. From this point on, it's about controlling that motor. And that is the controllers duty. How to test that, not a clue.
Scott

[HarryStone]

Originally Posted by FIRE UP

Trimoot,
If I'm not mistaken, those step motors, just like our awning motor, and our step cover motor, DO NOT have a dedicated ground. Those motors use/have two wires. On my step cover motor, one wire is red, and one is yellow. But, those are what I'd call *reversing ground* motors. That is, and I'm purely guessing here. When asked to EXTEND the steps, one wire is the ground, and one is the positive. But, when asked to RETRACT, those two wires reverse their roles.

So, when you say your steps EXTEND fine, BUT, don't RETRACT, well, without being any form of an expert here, I'm guessing that, a controller sends the signals to that motor to command it to turn in one direction for extend, and the other direction to retract. If you're only getting a signal to EXTEND, then maybe the controller is not sending the signal to turn the the motor in the other direction.

A simple, BUT DANGEROUS experiment/test for this would be to:

1. Maybe disconnect the plug for the two wires to the motor.
2. Rig up two wires from your battery to the area of the plug for that motor.
3. BE VERY CAREFUL in these next parts.

4. Connect the negative from your battery, to one of the pins in the motor plug.
5. Now, just touch the positive wire to the other pin and, observe the motor's reaction. If your steps are already out, you maybe sending power in the manor that want's to keep extending.
6. Or, those steps may begin to retract.

7. A safer way of testing would be to completely disconnect the motor-to-step arm. That way, there's no real danger of the steps moving during these tests.

But, if you get good motor movement in both directions, then you've proved the motor is good and will extend and retract those steps. From this point on, it's about controlling that motor. And that is the controllers duty. How to test that, not a clue.
Scott

You've pretty much got it. But, instead of thinking ground, think return. Normally in a voltage circuit, ground and return is the same thing, but in a reversing motor, it's not. The controller switches positive and negative(return), and is externally grounded. If the motor goes one way, it's gonna go the other, unless the controller is messed up. No sense messing with the motor that way. Best thing is to follow the Kwikee troubleshooting procedures, it won't lead you wrong.