Community Forums

mlegue2 · 05-15-2012, 08:26 PM

Ok we've gone from the Travel Supreme to Newmar Essex to 2002 Holiday Rambler Navigator 45. Any thoughts on Holiday Rambler 2002? The feed back so far has been very valuable

lonestarace · 05-16-2012, 08:00 AM

I believe you are asking about a 02 HR 45' Navigator?

If so, we have a sister ship, 02 Monaco 45' Signature(all electric) w/500 ISM.

The S-series RoadMaster chassis is excellent. None better.

The Monaco box that sits on top of the chassis is better than most, but I assure you that they slap these things together and there was not enough pride in workmanship or quality control going on when they built the coach.

Things to check on ANY and EVERY 10 yr old coach:
1) roof or wall water leaks which will cause delamination.
2) dark paint color(s) that will cause fiberglass gassing or paint checking. The only way to permanently repair the fiberglass gassing is to repaint the entire coach a light color(s) for $20+k, and/or have fiberglass siding replaced for $40+k.
3) Maintenance history. Can you ask the pervious owner(s) questions. If not, assume the worst, and price accordingly.
4) are you retired? and a good mechanic/DIYer?, if not, get a very good extended warranty.
5) Tire age($5k)
6) Old TVs/electronics. These can be expensive to pay someone to update.
7) If it's an all electric coach, what is the condition of the AGM batteries. There are 5 of them and they cost about $700ea

These are complex vehicles. There is a lot that will go wrong. Hire somebody(a mechanic) that is familiar with the specific coach and can properly check the general condition and all systems, and knows how to spot delamination/gassing. Do not ask the seller to check it out.

Anything can be repaired, you just need to get into it at the appropriate price. Delamination is expensive and difficult to repair properly. In the past, we purchased a coach w/delam issues for a discounted price. It had a 6' x 4' area of delamination around the curbside bedroom window that had been repaired twice by 2 different shops. Neither shop had done the repair properly and the delamination returned. According to receipts, the first shop charged $10k, and the second shop charged $6k. We ended up fixing it ourselves at a fraction of the $, but I'm retired and handy.

We hope this helps?

deandec · 05-17-2012, 10:48 AM

I would love to have any one of the three mentioned.

LokiGT · 05-17-2012, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deandec

I would love to have any one of the three mentioned.

Ditto!! Sweet rigs all, some day.... Good luck to the OP picking one out!

AGP · 05-18-2012, 07:27 PM

Take your pick all awesome.

mlegue2 · 05-19-2012, 07:32 PM

Okay
Here's our latest findings. The 2002 HR Navigator was rough, looked like some slide water leak and roof felt somewhat delaminated. Not quite what we are looking for, however we did find a 2000 Blue Bird wonderlodge 43' LXI Millineum edition. 89 k, detroit diesel 60 series, 2 slides, only problem but will be repaired is slide air seal. Any feedback on this coach would be appreciated. We think it's classic but worried about the age etc
Thanks

Lost and confused........

rvbmw1 · 05-23-2012, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlegue2

Okay
Here's our latest findings. The 2002 HR Navigator was rough, looked like some slide water leak and roof felt somewhat delaminated. Not quite what we are looking for, however we did find a 2000 Blue Bird wonderlodge 43' LXI Millineum edition. 89 k, detroit diesel 60 series, 2 slides, only problem but will be repaired is slide air seal. Any feedback on this coach would be appreciated. We think it's classic but worried about the age etc
Thanks

Lost and confused........

Wow! Are you a mechanic? This is one of the most complicated coaches ever made. Bird's downfall was the popularity of the slideroom. They didn't want to go there but the market gave them no choice. I believe you have to go thru a 10-15 item punch list before the slideroom will even operate. The slide will not even attemt to go out until the leveling jacks are down. To do this, the coach has to be level, I'm talking within 1inch level, or the slideroom will not operate. Owner's always have had problems with this. The Bird is also one of the heaviest coaches ever made, well north of 50,000lbs (no dirt or grass for this beast) and this coach carries drum brakes. Can be a issue sometimes.
If this coach was taken care of, Bird's were in design to last a 100years. What you are looking at is a "street legal" tank

Good luck

jimbo16720 · 05-23-2012, 05:31 PM

Wouldn't it be easier to just ask which coach is best? Everyone is going to have there opinion as to what's good and what's bad. I usually find that whatever the person owns at the time is the best. Very few times someone is going to say what they have sucks.

Cat320 · 05-24-2012, 12:54 PM

JMHO, but any coach that old is too old and will have too many problems.

pumper9x9 · 05-27-2012, 07:16 AM

Go to rv.org pay what they are asking. Read all the material, use their rating system. Then go to oodle.com and plug in what you're looking for. They have listings from all over the internet. They will also send you daily updates. Beware of deals that sound too good to be true because they are probably scams. Have fun and happy hunting.

st687 · 05-27-2012, 07:53 AM

Check out Foretravel.com for a used Phenix.

Smitty77 · 05-27-2012, 08:59 AM

The Wanderlodge is complex, as most high end rigs are. And the word 'tank' is appropriate. It is a solid and respected coach, that if not abused or neglected by previous owners - would be a solid founation for a long time rig. It sounds like this coach is at a dealer. Is this the same dealer that let you come look over the HR, knowing it was rough? (Or, did you just go on you own without asking them for input to start with?) If they did not tell you about the HR problems before you showed up, what else might they not tell you about the Bird? And, if it is not a respected dealer, I wonder what their capabilities are to repair the slide seal??

Good observation about the weight. And, reading your posts, I wonder if you have sat down and tried to determine your needs???

Goood advise on paying your money to read the reviews.

Many, many good rigs are available. Still always suggest that you narrow down the brands and models that interest you and fit within your budget. Then, if you are not an experience RV'er, I'd make contact with a professional to represent you in this search - they're working for you, and will sort out the ones that are not worth the look.

I've recommended two places before, with a West Coast slant due to where we live. Steve Wilson of Holland Motor Homes, now in San Marcos. And Steve (sorry forgot his last name) and California Motor Coach. Make contact with them, talk over your list of prospective coaches and budget. Then let them do your hunting for you. I would also ask them for input, as Steve Wilson politely asked me questions from my list, and his 'questions' were an extension of my education.

Steve Wilson sold us our Country Coach from our list of brands and models to consider. What I like about the professionals, is that they know of rigs before you will ever see them on a For Sale internet add. They have them coming in on consignment, or know of them coming in as a trade in. The 'good ones', are quite often gone before they hit the lot.

Best of luck, and last bit of input - take your time, as these are expensive toys....
Smitty

bsinmich · 05-27-2012, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlegue2

Okay
Here's our latest findings. The 2002 HR Navigator was rough, looked like some slide water leak and roof felt somewhat delaminated. Not quite what we are looking for, however we did find a 2000 Blue Bird wonderlodge 43' LXI Millineum edition. 89 k, detroit diesel 60 series, 2 slides, only problem but will be repaired is slide air seal. Any feedback on this coach would be appreciated. We think it's classic but worried about the age etc
Thanks

Lost and confused........

You were looking at a 2002 and are then conceerned about a 2000 being too old. Do you realize that in 2 years that 2002 would be that old also. Mine is a 2003 and somehow I don't look at it as being 9 years old. I store it inside and keep total records of everything done to it. There was a time when I thought 70 was ancient. Now it sounds young to me.

VP · 07-24-2012, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlegue2

Okay
Here's our latest findings. The 2002 HR Navigator was rough, looked like some slide water leak and roof felt somewhat delaminated. Not quite what we are looking for, however we did find a 2000 Blue Bird wonderlodge 43' LXI Millineum edition. 89 k, detroit diesel 60 series, 2 slides, only problem but will be repaired is slide air seal. Any feedback on this coach would be appreciated. We think it's classic but worried about the age etc
Thanks

Lost and confused........

mlegue2- BB's were the best built coaches ever made, period. Aluminum, steel, name brand drivetrains, steel roofs, all the latest name brand systems... and all put together by craftsmen who cared. Some consider them to be right at the pinnacle of RV motorcoach building and they have earned the "Million Mile" coach reputation with good reason. No assembly line coach will ever be built as well again and there simply is no comparison to them unless you go way upscale like to a Provost or Marathon coach. They have an extremely loyal following with many choosing vintage models. It is easy to find 80's and 90's models that look brand new. But before you jump, do your research. The 2000 model you mention was a $600K+ coach when it was new and it is square in the middle of an amazing depreciation black hole right now. Thanks to the housing crisis many banks now refuse to lend on coaches older than 10 years. Consequently, market prices for these amazing machines fall off a cliff at that point and often end up near 10% of their original MSRP, when they reach 15 years of age. It seems many people do not have $75k-$125k in cash just laying around. And even if they do, they have been conditioned by the remaining RV manufacturers to believe that all coaches fall apart at the 10 year point (many of THEIR coaches do!). But Blue Birds do not!! In fact most of these very high end coaches have spent their lives inside heated/cooled specially built garages when not being used by their very picky owners. Owners who invested north of 1/2 million dollars in them when they were new took care of them, as you can well imagine. Additionally, this lending crunch comes as people who bought them new are now at a point when they are slowing down and want to quit RV'ing. Their loss and the bath they took in depreciation could be your gain! If you are serious about a Blue Bird, do yourself a favor. Before buying anything and especially before settling for the Bird crowd calls a "stick and plastic" coach - check out www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/forums/. This is a fantastic resource for everything Blue Bird and especially what they call Wannabes. As you can tell, that's what I am! But someday soon I'll slip behind the wheel of one and ride off into the sunset. Then, when I've reached my "destination", "my" BB will be ready to take another Wannabe on the same journey. Good luck with your search!