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Old 12-03-2016, 08:13 AM   #85
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1st off, let me thank you guys for all great and appreciated input! I'm an active member at about 15 other forums (for my various interests), but I can say <here>, it is very mature (thank you!) and all great opinions and input. I found on some other forums a lot of sarcastic bashing, maybe as in some "father" members wanting to be "the voice and authority"... but none of that nonsense here! So Kudo's goes out to this forum and more importantly the users of.
-KJ & Debbie (she lurks, lol)



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Originally Posted by wnytaxman View Post
Top Speed, glad you made it up here to Buffalo. We have found that Buffalo RV beats the price from MHS by thousands on our current rig and on pricing for a replacement. They seem to have gotten their service department in order so they do offer a much more complete package now.

We were all set on the Aspire 44B depending on a particular business transaction that, sadly, did not happen, so we are still tire kicking. I do have a major concern now about Entegra and their sale to Thor and the subsequent shake up at the top of their management chain. Right now I have more of a wait and see attitude toward them.

We have also looked at the London Aire at Buffalo RV. Great rig and I do know they want to move it. Like you, the colors are not of the wow factor and it would be a great buy but would the cost savings offset the color annoyance? Keep looking and maybe check out the Tampa show. North Trail usually has a big selection of Newmars there and RVOne will normally beat North Trail's price by a ton so it may be worthwhile to stop at Newmar and Entegra at Tampa and then mosey on over to the Jayco display and talk to RVOne.
Well, your PM to me telling me to get with these guys is probably the main reason I did. And, this was GREAT advice. I have found the same aggressive/low pricing from these guys. Maybe it's just because it's the end of the season (here) and the Holidays are near, but they all seem like they will beat or do anything to capture not only your transaction but your heart as well. Very happy w Buffalo RV (an RVOne store).

Dully noted on the Entegra takeover, I will monitor as well. Sorry to hear that your business venture didn't come through but hopefully soon and you can get that Coach of your dreams.

Speaking of the London Aire that they have, I really liked the arched (raised ceiling) in the master bath. That gave my 6-4 a little open feeling, especially compared to the Entegra's. But like you, all those (like your parents RV) brown colors and earth tones are so dated now, yuk!




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Originally Posted by marknpeg View Post
If you're looking at fifth wheels, take a look at Grand Design too. Their interior finishes are a cut above. We came very close to buying a Solitude but in the end we decided the outside setup, using the supertruck as a runaround, etc. made the decision for us.

And for something a little different, check out the Keystone Montana with the front kitchen. We toured one and I think that layout is just fantastic.

Of course Foretravel has a 2015 Realm available right now, asking $589.
Colton RV (in Niagara Falls) is our local Grand Design (Momentum class) dealers. I like them a lot, seem like very high quality also, but they all have an almost black wood grain cabinetry in all their models. Too dreery for my honey, plus we had a very dark kitchen back in the early 80's when it was in, when it went out, it was the first things guests would mention "oh, that is very dark" (with 22 recessed can lights in it as well!) lol.

So the dark or almost black cabinets for us = out! Thank you for this however, it would be a brand and model (Momentum is their top of the line) that we would definitely have on our radar.

--------------------------------------------

On my weighted scale, the DP (Cornerstone 45B, SilverLining, Nat Cherry) still has a slight advantage, but the XLR 422AMP is gaining ground everyday.

Debbie's eye's were popping when she saw (from the inside) the front porch. Having double glass sliding doors opening up to, really makes an open "cool" RV feeling that no Coach has given us yet. The rear drop down patio is nice, but not nearly like the front one that just opens up the kitchen area.

So we are very impressed with the 422AMP, and on even money, I'd say Cornerstone, but because of the more cramped feeling that the Coach has the XLR 422AMP is playing hard ball, throw in the fact that the Super-5er will be way less than half the money?.... could take my money saved towards a 4 or 5 bay pole barn w possible RV rental slot income for us (or at least cover the taxes on the adjacent lot and pole barn).

Beginning of May '17 [goal!] is when I want to have in hand my Coach (or Super 5er along with an ordered-in 2017 3500HD pickup). On that note; I'd like either the Chevy High Country 3500HD, or the GMC Denali 3500 ...both are actually the same /high-end package.

If the weather holds up today (Sat 12/3) we will venture down to Bath NY (Balentine TV) to view some more Coaches and 5ers.

Cheers, and I hope you all enjoy your weekend!
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Old 12-03-2016, 06:39 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Top_Speed1 View Post
When I'm older and into my retirement years?, this^ will probably play more into it than now. I've done it, not saying I like it by any means BUT having auto-level on the 5er is 90% of the outside game. I really don't see much more of an advantage to this (over a one unit rig) especially when you have the luxuries now that these 5ers have. So you still have to hook up shore power and water to both, pretty much everything else like awnings (if you choose) is push button.

So with a "real" luxury 5er (not like my current one), not much difference setting up to the DP other than getting out of the truck and into the RV.

On one occasion w my current, I've actually kept the truck hooked up until a heavy rain cell went through. No biggie, the beer was ice cold in the fridge and now with a push button gen prime/start and a trav'ler auto sat setup, I can also turn on ESPN and catch Sports Center (my current 5er has a Winegard crank-up Satellite dish). :(

For me, the DP gets very minimal points for "Bad weather setup", but it is in (my) DP advantage checklist.
Got to disagree...the DP is a huge advantage. Pull into a park, with the slow cooker going all day, and set up all automatically. You don't need power, or water or anything else. The coach is toasty warm, smells good and you don't have to get out at all. With a 10/12 KW generator and an Aqua Hot...that will run all day on engine heat for free...level with air or jacks, and you are set.
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Old 12-04-2016, 09:02 AM   #87
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We also considered a 5th wheel, (DRV Mobile Suites or Mobile Estate). The large open space and tall ceilings are very nice. Many of these now come with a residential refrigerator. But the deal breakers for us were no Aqua Hot, no inverter, propane generator, and all the peripheral items (faucets, sinks, toilets, etc.) were a step down in quality. Then I added in the cost of a new med duty truck and it was no go.
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Old 12-04-2016, 10:06 AM   #88
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We also considered a 5th wheel, (DRV Mobile Suites or Mobile Estate). The large open space and tall ceilings are very nice. Many of these now come with a residential refrigerator. But the deal breakers for us were no Aqua Hot, no inverter, propane generator, and all the peripheral items (faucets, sinks, toilets, etc.) were a step down in quality. Then I added in the cost of a new med duty truck and it was no go.
Not to mention that you are stuck with a MDT while travelling, as a daily driver, for touring, and driving to the grocery store. Seems to work for a lot of people but wouldn't work for me. The Aqua Hot and diesel generator are huge deals IMO. I can't imagine trying to feed a propane generator for 96 hours straight like I have done on many occasions, camping (race venues) in hot weather.
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Old 12-05-2016, 07:09 AM   #89
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Got to disagree...the DP is a huge advantage. Pull into a park, with the slow cooker going all day, and set up all automatically. You don't need power, or water or anything else. The coach is toasty warm, smells good and you don't have to get out at all. With a 10/12 KW generator and an Aqua Hot...that will run all day on engine heat for free...level with air or jacks, and you are set.
Not "huge", but let's put it back in the minimal category. You don't need water or electric on the high-end 5ers either. Actually, the 5er we are looking at, actually has a 170 gal fresh water supply, 125 gray and 100 black tanks, even more than the DP's, so this actually is to the super-5er's advantage.

As said prior, the Aqua hot is a true advantage for the DP, everything else you mentioned the 5er can do along with a diesel generator option/upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Scottybdivin View Post
Not to mention that you are stuck with a MDT while travelling, as a daily driver, for touring, and driving to the grocery store. Seems to work for a lot of people but wouldn't work for me. The Aqua Hot and diesel generator are huge deals IMO. I can't imagine trying to feed a propane generator for 96 hours straight like I have done on many occasions, camping (race venues) in hot weather.
The convenience of the bathroom (mainly for wifey) is a huge plus for the DP. Also a sandwich etc while driving is pretty nice also, warming the cabin along with the coach is nice (but hopefully I won't be going to too many cold places!). I think this convenience and the drive-ability of the nicer DP rigs (ie Spartan K3 chassis) along with the basement size as the main pluses for the DP. (for me this is).

If you followed along (and I do the same sometimes; skip reading) you would know the new (a couple brands) Super-5er's do have a diesel generator option, and most upper end toy haulers have 2 fuel tanks, one for the genset, 1 for the toys (fuel nozzle/dispenser).

This being said, I will be bringing along at least 1 of my motorcycles. The Toy hauler gets the nod here, as I will have both a chase vehicle (pu truck) and my bike(s) to tour the west with.

If I go with a DP, I will have to purchase an enclosed aluminum trailer like a featherlight etc. Not a big deal, but I'm back in the same boat having to park a trailer somewhere, and my 1 piece unit (the DP) is now not so convenient, more even again :(

--------------

I know this is posted in a DP thread as it's beginning/main intention is (or at least was lol). I only expect pro-DP comments here TBH, so all is good and you guys love what you have. In the 5er threads it's more the opposite, they have their big pro's. Understandable, but for me being nuetral, I have to weigh it all out to whats really "even or advantage". I think a lot (not all!) of the DPers are stuck back in times a bit, or at least when they were considering their purchase. The new Super (or Ultra as some salespeeps say) 5th wheels have come a long way and have closed the gap on most of the past 1 unit advantage.

Either way, I can't be a 1 unit traveler. So is the DP with a trailer that much better than the 3500HD/5er combo?

I will add now, the new (2017) GMC Denali (or Chevy High Country) 3500HD with the all new Duramax; sporting 20% more torque and now the clear leader in pickup trucks for HP {and torque}... is a BIG advantage to the 5er setup. Why? Easy and lesser expensive Service, better Mileage; by far (double of what the DP will get). Multi-Camera system option now built in (like the high-end DP), you can have L/R mirror camera's now popup on the 8" screen when you flip a turn signal, and not only show the rear of the 5er, you can also have a remote camera (like positioned on your toy room). It's as impressive or even more than the DP camera system. SO that once concern is now a wash.

My current 2500HD Duramax (that I would have to trade in on a 3500 dually) doesn't have the cooled seats option that I so desire, this is now checked off on the 2017, along with a more aggressive engine brake. *ON that note*, I know it won't be as aggressive as the 600hp engine brake, so the DP (but only with the 600hp) gets the engine brake advantage/nod here.

SIZE matters they say, and being 6'-4", the DP got a lot "less" impressive after personally viewing these super-5er's. I can't emphasize enough how open these units feel. My wife simply termed it as (after touring a couple super-5ers) "The Cornerstone now seems like we are working in an office cubical". Yikes, and this coming from her, and being only 5-4, 105 lbs!).

I think I'm about even on what will work best for us. I see a lot of pluses both ways ....being totally neutral here, and this ONLY after touring the super-5ers, <friggen monkey wrench> which would be a lot easier if we hadn't! lol. Better see it now than later however.
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Old 12-05-2016, 08:54 AM   #90
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Sounds like you have a conundrum. Be sure to check out the CCC when you're looking at Toy Haulers. They are notorious for not having the capacity to carry their advertised garage capacity, let alone a full load of water. Ask me how I know.






Also, you mention engine braking on the 2017 3500. I think you mean exhaust brake, and they are two completely different animals. Larger diesels have Jake brakes, and they are superior to exhaust brakes.
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Old 12-05-2016, 05:48 PM   #91
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Top_Speed,

Don't think anyone here cares whether you end up in a 5ver ora DP. Yes, you posted on a DP thread, but you are more likely to get folks that have had a trailer/5ver in the past than the vice versa (and yes, I know there are exceptions) and thus you get that perspective.

That said, I would offer one minor correction...you don't have to have a trailer for your MC with a DP.Put a Hydralift or a Cruiserlift on the back, or haul a MC in the back of a P/U (several different option for loading including drive on and electrically pull up on the bed). I did both these things.

There are also many DP owners that have gone through the same trades as you are doing. For me, I had a MC when I made the decision to go full timer RVer. I looked closely at Fvers and particularly, toy haulers. Once the toy is unloaded, I just couldn't buy the "room" being either a living room or a bedroom...both aesthetically, and from a temperature control perspective. JMHO
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Old 12-05-2016, 07:16 PM   #92
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It depends how you travel and sitesee, also. You're not going to be taking a HD on forest service roads to see some awesome things. A motorcycle will not fill in either. I can't imagine doing all the things we've done over the years without a small car and in our case, a Jeep. Perhaps you won't travel like we did but just something to think about. Good luck!
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Old 12-06-2016, 06:56 AM   #93
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Also, you mention engine braking on the 2017 3500. I think you mean exhaust brake, and they are two completely different animals. Larger diesels have Jake brakes, and they are superior to exhaust brakes.
I believe they shut off the exhaust valves making the vacuum to help slow/stop. As mentioned, I don't believe it to be what the 600hp has for braking, also noting I will have way less overall weight to slow/stop as well.

I haven't ruled on one or the other yet, but having 2 decks that fold out are making the wife want to sway towards the openness of the TH's



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Top_Speed,
Once the toy is unloaded, I just couldn't buy the "room" being either a living room or a bedroom...both aesthetically, and from a temperature control perspective. JMHO
Oh this room would be surely used (quite well) for us, and add in a 65" 4K TV up on the wall facing outward.... perfect for the rainy/party days (could of used this back when I chased the NASCAR circuit around, lol.

I really like the "man cave", and with the ceiling raised queen bed and dining gaucho's that come down, plus a roll out of carpet?... wifey approved!



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It depends how you travel and sitesee, also. You're not going to be taking a HD on forest service roads to see some awesome things. A motorcycle will not fill in either. I can't imagine doing all the things we've done over the years without a small car and in our case, a Jeep. Perhaps you won't travel like we did but just something to think about. Good luck!
If I do the DP, an enclosed trailer big enough for a small car (15') and my bike(s) at + 8' would be a must. I own a 28ft V-nose, F/R entry all-aluminum enclosed trailer now that I "was" going to use possibly for this. 28' may be a bit long however.



--------------------------------


I mentioned dual outside patio's, just so you know what FP I'm seriously considering on the 45' THer.... (before you mention about the fridge, this is a base FP, you can opt for the elec coach w full Inverter/battery bank and the residential fridge of course).

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Old 12-06-2016, 07:11 AM   #94
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Keep in mind the temps and comfort level in the garage are likely not going to be the same as the main cabin. The insulation, or lack thereof, in toy hauler garages leaves a lot to be desired. That being said, that's where our kids sleep and and it is their own room and it works great for that, but it does get warmer (and cooler) in there than the rest of the rig no doubt
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Old 12-06-2016, 07:12 AM   #95
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That does look like a great floor plan too!
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:15 PM   #96
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With a 45' toy hauler and the big truck and the rear patio and another patio on one side and slides on the other..... you are going to have a hard time finding sites that will accommodate you.
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Old 12-07-2016, 05:28 AM   #97
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One thing I would mention and it's not clear in this floor plan, make sure you have access to the fridge when the slides are closed. We had to open the kitchen slide when we stopped for a lunch break.
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Old 12-07-2016, 06:18 AM   #98
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I will add now, the new (2017) GMC Denali (or Chevy High Country) 3500HD with the all new Duramax; sporting 20% more torque and now the clear leader in pickup trucks for HP {and torque}... is a BIG advantage to the 5er setup. Why? Easy and lesser expensive Service, better Mileage; by far (double of what the DP will get). Multi-Camera system option now built in (like the high-end DP), you can have L/R mirror camera's now popup on the 8" screen when you flip a turn signal, and not only show the rear of the 5er, you can also have a remote camera (like positioned on your toy room). It's as impressive or even more than the DP camera system. SO that once concern is now a wash.

My current 2500HD Duramax (that I would have to trade in on a 3500 dually) doesn't have the cooled seats option that I so desire, this is now checked off on the 2017, along with a more aggressive engine brake. *ON that note*, I know it won't be as aggressive as the 600hp engine brake, so the DP (but only with the 600hp) gets the engine brake advantage/nod here.
Just a quick recent observation on TV.

The folks across from us have a Landmark 365 with a F350 Dually. It sure looked like that 5er was everything and more than that 350 could handle when he pulled in. I don't think I've seen a dually pulling a 5er that close to dragging its bumper before....... It's there 3rd 5er, so not like they are rookies.

Maybe worth considering the F450 (or similar) size TV for a mega 5er........

BTW, I get your serious consideration of a high end 5er vs. a DP.........

Regards
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