Still shopping; Newmar, Entegra, American Eagle H.

[Top_Speed1]

Originally Posted by gtsum2

Keep in mind the temps and comfort level in the garage are likely not going to be the same as the main cabin. The insulation, or lack thereof, in toy hauler garages leaves a lot to be desired. That being said, that's where our kids sleep and and it is their own room and it works great for that, but it does get warmer (and cooler) in there than the rest of the rig no doubt

Good consideration for sure, as we will definitely be residential-izing the "man cave". The 45' unit optionally comes with a 3rd AC unit for the TH/garage, this was added to my quote.

Forest River (Mfgr) does now boast about the XLR/AMP's "Arctic package" having R38 in the garage floor, I forgot the wall and ceiling but they seemed normal to the rest of the coach when I read them, and... this seems like a past problem as they specifically addressed this issue in the literature.

Originally Posted by twogypsies

With a 45' toy hauler and the big truck and the rear patio and another patio on one side and slides on the other..... you are going to have a hard time finding sites that will accommodate you.

Yepper, it has a very big footprint (with everything out), salesman warned us that we might not be able to put out/down the front patio (or even the rear sometimes). I think all this in and out (door) living space is the big attraction however, and with every good... there seems to come a bad.

If we can't put down/out the front deck, I not only lose the out door patio (40" LED TV and Fireplace), but also the dual sliding glass doors that just open up the feel and look of the main living quarters (wife is very attracted to this over and above the DP). This non-view would be more of a bummer (for us) than the outside TV or Fireplace.

With my current 34' 5er, I have already found some short sites that were quite cramped, and if I go with this 45' Super-TH, add on another 11ft!.. yikes!

Originally Posted by Scottybdivin

One thing I would mention and it's not clear in this floor plan, make sure you have access to the fridge when the slides are closed. We had to open the kitchen slide when we stopped for a lunch break.

With the residential fridge option, lower section (freezer) is out. Salesman says you will have a wedge meaning enough to get your hand in is all on the upper 2 doors (fridge part).

I am marking this as an advantage to the DP, mainly the Entegra Cornerstone 45B floorplan; that is still in play here w us.

Originally Posted by Betr2Trvl

Just a quick recent observation on TV.

The folks across from us have a Landmark 365 with a F350 Dually. It sure looked like that 5er was everything and more than that 350 could handle when he pulled in. I don't think I've seen a dually pulling a 5er that close to dragging its bumper before....... It's there 3rd 5er, so not like they are rookies.

Maybe worth considering the F450 (or similar) size TV for a mega 5er........

BTW, I get your serious consideration of a high end 5er vs. a DP.........

Regards

This is scary for sure.
With this XLR/AMP 422 45' model, I will have a 3,700lb (3643# actual) tongue weight. 16K empty on the 5er coach, add in another 5K with water load and gear. So I'm going to be almost at max on the rated limits.

My 2500HD has seen many of trips with 2 ton (4,000#) hauling 1 1-ton pallets of wood pellets and/or water softening salt etc. It handles 4K lbs "okay", you know you have a load on but mainly sway wise, the Duramax however has no clue if this is really any kind of weight at all of course. I have it chipped, injector stage 3, oversize turbo and 6" exhaust from turbo... and a console monitor for the likes of EGT. Beast!

If I go with a new 3500HD; which is now improved for 2017 making it the most HP and torque in the P/U truck industry.... I will leave it alone, at least until the warranty is up

On the 4500, sure would be nice, but I don't like the cab or the lack of a comfy ride with one. And, I own one already!, it has a dump box on it for one of my business'

My consideration has so many pluses for the Cornerstone DP, but then when I get into the ring with the Super-5er, it shines like a superstar.

If I have any hair left after this RV decision, it will be a miracle.

[tropical36]

Originally Posted by Ready2Travel

The Entegra 44B, 45B has a mid half bath so makes access to the rear bath when driving not that important? If one needs to get to the rear bath for some reason not that difficult to do by crawling over the bed.

We have a 1 1/2 bath model and if the rear bath needs access, it's usually when we're in a rest area for a bit and we can easily put the slide out 12' or so for walking around the bed. Any other emergency, we're still not so decrepit for diving over it and by the time we are, we shouldn't be on the road, anyway.

[Top_Speed1]

****FINALLY****PULLED****THE****TRIGGER!****

After tons of discussions with fellow RVers, great input here and watching all the (DVR'd) shows like Extreme RV's etc.... (and taking a closure line from those shows...)

We decided to go with the XLR AMP 422 Luxury 5th wheel. Inked the deal this past Saturday (1/7/16) so let the 16 week build time to delivery [clock] begin.

Pretty much all the options were ordered including the 3 solar panels on the roof, 3 AC's, touchscreen coach control pads (2) as well as tablet/phone BT interfaced, residential appliance pkg, trav'ler satellite, full body paint, on demand hot water, JBL inside and outside premium sound, 2 fireplaces (1 is outside on front deck w an exterior TV). The MSRP was nearly $140K, which was easier to digest coming from shopping DP coaches with more than double that cost, but we carved out a fair deal when comparing others who purchased this same model.

I think the living space and overall headroom (feel) is what sold us, the main interior slide itself is 7'6" tall! . Having both an outside front and rear (rampup) deck will also play into our hearts as well as one of the biggest pluses (others have mentioned about this model praising these decks over and over).



Before the final inking... we walked back into a Cornerstone, man! I love that coach, but the headroom after being into the 5er was just such a buzz kill... plus it was clearly on our mind to look for this.

In all fairness, I will no doubt be in a class A DP for my retirement years, but for now (being an active person), the hitching/unhitching does not really bother me, and having the auto level is huge and one of the main things I didn't like on my current 5er. I now will be able to bring along 2 mototcycles, have all the luxuries I was wanting prior, and... I saved a ton of cash.

Speaking of the savings. It's not as great as you may think. I also went to my local Ford Dealer and ordered in a '17 F350 Platinum Dually Diesel, totally loaded w 7 cameras, 1 is remote for the back of the 5er (and that already has one also, so I'll have to work that out... maybe get moved to inside the garage to watch the toys while under tow. MSRP on the truck was $81K, I got about 10% off of that..... which means......

I (still) have plenty enough money left over to get an insulated 40X70' RV & Boat Storage Garage w cement floor and lead-in-driveway. I have the RV and Truck already ordered, so this is my next venture contacting and getting quotes.


So my weighted scale tipped to the latter (for me of course)
--------------------------------------------------------------

2017 Entegra Cornerstone 45B
~~~~~~~|vs|~~~~~~~
2017 XLR Thunderbolt 422AMP
2017 Ford F350 Platinum
(loaded w even massage seats!)
40x70 Insulated Garage match/house

---------------------------------------------------------------

I know I'd be happy with either setup, but for me at this point and time in my life, the space of the 5er and being able to still get a long spacious pole barn into my budget as well tipped the scale thatta way.

Cheers mates, and I'm sure glad this decision stuff is over.

[wnytaxman]

Cool KJ. Glad to see your quest has ended. Sounds like you made the best choice for your situation. Where did you finally end up buying your new 5er?

[gtsum2]

Congrats on the new rig. Be sure to share some pics when you get it

[DSL417]

I am sure you'll be happy with your choice...gotta say though, sounds like $225K+ in, darn near there for a DP.

IAE, congrats on your new rig.

[Top_Speed1]

Thanks everyone, it's a relief to have this done finally... well, until I retire? hehe.

Originally Posted by wnytaxman

Cool KJ. Glad to see your quest has ended. Sounds like you made the best choice for your situation. Where did you finally end up buying your new 5er?

First I would like to thank you for all your PM's and excellent input, very much appreciated!

Meyers RV World (Bath NY was my closest hub). I had 3 guys working on my deal to make this happen, they were all great and clearly wanted to be the store that sold/ordered-in this totally loaded 44'6" behemoth (over and above RV Wholesalers in Ohio who had an unbelievable price!

Super glad I could stay local for just a few bucks more!

Originally Posted by gtsum2

Congrats on the new rig. Be sure to share some pics when you get it

Will do! Truck is 8-10 weeks out and as mentioned, the RV is 16 weeks with the custom exterior paint we selected.

Originally Posted by DSL417

I am sure you'll be happy with your choice...gotta say though, sounds like $225K+ in, darn near there for a DP.

IAE, congrats on your new rig.

Yepper, probably will be more in the + part of that figure as my 40x70 garage will not be an econo pole barn, and it will have to match (wify's rules lol) our contemporary home as it will be about 100' away on one side.

I know I want 14' wide doors, up in the air if I want to go up to 16' on the door heights, my boat is 30' and will just fit under the 14' when on it's triple axle trailer (I have to swing down the led anchor light is all).... so I'm back to my decisions I guess

[AndyE_]

Originally Posted by Top_Speed1

Hi folks,

I've been at this all summer. I guess it's like pounding your head on the wall over and over in frustration and wonder why you're still doing it? ....I say this in a good way, it's really been quite fun and I learn something everyday on my future purchase and subject.

I've been gladly taking advice, mostly local and face to face as I just joined this forum about a week ago. Great info here, but as the Ford vs Chevy saga continues, I know everyone has their fav. I just wanna pull the trigger once and have it known to me and my little brain it was the right choice.

A short B/G on me. I have a CDL (for 30 years), have driven just about everything. In the "Coach" world, so far I have white glove tested and driven both the Newmar and Entegra line. I also did the road testing at 65mph Interstate with wind buffeting and wind shear/push equated into my findings. And, I say this only b/c I've heard (a very few select ones) on the Entegra's not tracking well at highway speeds and getting wind sheered/ Semi' pushed; on lane passings. Being that I only road tested the Cornerstone w the Spartan K3 and not the Anthem, I can only say that both Newmar and Entegra coaches (that I drove) passed the thumb and two finger steering wheel test with ease. Both are SWEET-AZZ RIDES!

Our RV budget btw is ~500K. So there's 2 brands that I've also scoped out and driven but are out of the $ equation: Newell and Prevost conversions. Cha-ching! But those two are in a class by themselves, not what I want to spend at this time however (I'm not even retired yet!). But wow, just freeq'n wow!

Back to reality- We have very close friends that just upgraded to a '17 Essex. It's gorgeous (of course!) but they have already spilled some complaints, and I know, it will happen with every make and model. I don't personally know anyone with the Cornerstone (yet), but I've read some beefs about them also, more-so the Anthem models and lower however. I'm thinking the Spartan K3 chassis on the CS to be more trouble free. Again, that's the feeling I've picked up on by both reading and mouth to mouth (campsite stories). Yes, I have RV'd my whole life, we currently have a 34' 5th wheel with a Chevy/Duramax pull combo. It's really nice, but I'm ready for the next step... "the 45' coach!"

Following along... I've narrowed it down to Newmar (not Newell, but I wish!) and Entegra. I want the passive steer tag axle, 600 ponies is nice, I'm a power nut and I will/may pull a trailer with my motorcycle and possibly a small dune buggy on some ventures.

Now I'm still open ears!... The one brand that I have not touchy/feely yet is the American Eagle (Heritage).

MHSRV has both Entegras and Americans, but very limited on Newmars (I think they only get in pre-owned ones?) could be wrong. MHSRV is far away as is LAzyD's which I've visited already on an AZ pass-through. I pre-read some bad experiences with LazyD's, but I can only say they were professional and very nice. It probably helped once they found our I was a serious buyer and not just a tire kicker. But kudo's to LazyD's at least for me and my wife's experience.

Local purchasing for me is central NY (State). I've got Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse and Albany basically. Problem is, I found the "BIG guys" as in MHSRV and LazyD's to do much more aggressive pricing. So I will and don't mind doing a fly and drive, possibly even a VIP factory pickup as Indiana is actually much closer to me that the other dealers loca's.

So staying w MHSRV, I still wanna investigate the American Eagle Heritage line. It's in the ballpark price range of the Cornerstone even adding in the upgraded hi-gloss cabinetry etc. Preliminary 2D looks has it really scoring high, but you know... we need the in person and drive test of course.

The Heritage (so far) in my pre-shopping boasts a beautiful interior with some larger slideouts (than the Newmars and Entegras). The "T" floorplan looks like it could work fore us.

Heritage; So far I really like...
--The digital dash (cockpit) with twin 10" monitors.
--Not only L/R mirror cameras, side coach (security) cameras as well
--Upgradable cabinets to high gloss (looking like da Prevosts!)
--Speaking of cabinets.. the self closing is sweet
--Larger living area due to the bigger slideouts
--Underbelly lighting looks cool in pics (minor aesthetic thing however)
--Exterior paint follows scheme even over windows

Heritage; So far I really DIS-likey's...
--Heat pump only in rear AC unit.
--Front windshield/visibility is not as 'grand' as lets say the Entegra or even the Newmar
--Exterior design is not as modern as the Entegra, even the Newmar looks more up to date.
--Limited outside color scheme, 3 only and all close to the same (earthtones). No blue's or any color that kinda grabs your attention as vivid but subtle at the same time.
--Still using last years 8-pak (weaker) batteries, not chassis centered either as Entegra has gone to in '17

This coach would be on a Freightliner chassis also. In my company owned business, I have a few FL's, even some with Mercedes diesels in them, but I never considered FL as high end? hmmm.

So my (our) quest continues, Entegra CS may have a slight edge but boy, as the old saying goes "if I could only take these features from this one and add it to this one it would be perfect!..." lol.

Thanks for your time and any input or guidance provided

We were in the SAME position as you during 2016. I went to AC, Newmar and Entegra and visited facilities and went to MANY shows from the East Coast (Hershey) to the West Coast (Pomona). I came seconds away from a Newmar. My wife was actually (Temporarily) upset with me not pulling the trigger on the 4369 Dutch Star. WE ARE BOTH GLAD WE didn't get the Dutch Star. We ended up with Entegra Anthem DEQ. We are empty nesters so we do not need a 1/2 bath, we wanted a bigger living room. The DEQ is perfect for that and the FULL bath is accessible while driving. The Anthem drives like a dream, it is on a K2 Spartan Chassis and I really mean this when I say it - IT IS WHISPER QUIET in the front area while driving. I lost interest in AC when I visited the factory. The Entegra factory seemed very interested, high care to the customer and quality, very clean, very organized and very precise. They have a two year warranty, that should say something. SOme other things that influenced me:

12.5 Gennie - STANDARD
3 AC units- STANDARD
In Motion Satellite- STANDARD
2 year warranty- STANDARD
The tiled shower and floors- STANDARD
And a multitude of other standard items.

There were only three options one was basement fridge, two was HD Travel'r Satellite and lastly was solar panels. The Entegra's are loaded. Newmar the build sheet is crazy, yes customizable but if you don't order a coach then you WILL HAVE to compromise, same with AC. The warranty is very good. Entegra authorized a non dealer to do warranty work and in fact that specific facility really liked Entegra.

These things influenced our buy:

-Pain and finish was very nice and we LOVED the scheme - Victory Blue

-AquaHot over Oasis. AquaHot 450D uses burner and engine heat while underway. Newmar needs Gennie running to power Oasis floor

-High Quality build

-Spartan chassis

-12.5 Gennie

- Loaded up with ALL the options we wanted

- Fantastic customer service and 2 year warranty

- We ended up buying it for 7k less than Dutch Star. Great deal.

- Love the DEQ floorplan

- Love the modern looking front and end caps. No comparison!

- Over Am Coach - Hung walls and flooring system

-Very Very good insulation

-Quietness of the ride while underway

-Thetford Turbo Sani-con standard

-Anthem for 2017 has fully automated system integration. I can put out slides and awnings while outside on my iPhone and totally control the coach with my phone.

I spent about 6 months during my decision making process to evaluate our decision. Like I said earlier, I came VERY close (within seconds of the Newmar) but ultimately bought the Entegra.

We are VERY happy.

To each their own. If you are anywhere near me you are welcome to come see mine and do a THOROUGH walk through and drive if it helps.

[AndyE_]

Originally Posted by MRUSA14

Why do you even care? Entegra's 45A, B and W floorplans have all the advantages of a full-wall slide without the disadvantages. When the slides are open, you cannot even tell from inside the coach that it is not a full-wall slide. But when you look at the height of the slideouts, they are taller due to the lack of a heavy beam which is required to provide wall strength for a full-wall slide. The result is more room in the Entegra slideouts, and fewer issues relating to the slideout length. With an Entegra, you don't have to go outside to check the "reveal", as Newmar coaches require before extending the slide. And AC coaches with full-wall slide require the engine to be running when extending/retracting the big slide unless you are plugged into shore power. Entegra has none of these issues.

I'm not saying the Newmar's aren't excellent coaches, because they are. But I think the lack of a full-wall slide on the Entegra is an advantage and not a detriment.

i agree. I was at a Newmar dealer where there was a customer there for 2 months trying to get the full wall slide fixed. The dealer even made comments to me about it.

[AndyE_]

Originally Posted by Ready2Travel

From posts on other threads it appears Newmar and Entegra are heads above all others in insulation R-factors with Entegra slightly better than Newmar.

We were in an AC when it rained and it was MUCH louder than the Entegra. In fact that is why we ruled Tiffin out very quickly.

[AndyE_]

Originally Posted by Top_Speed1

So taking some simple figures:

25K /yr at 6mpg = 4,166gal x 2.75/gal = $11,457
25K /yr at 8mpg = 3,125gal x 2.75/gal = $ 8,594
-----but now lets figure if fuel goes back up-----
25K /yr at 6mpg = 4,166gal x 4.95/gal = $20,622
25K /yr at 8mpg = 3,125gal x 4.95/gal = $15,469

In perspective, it's not a lot when considering these are both $350K and $500K coaches outright. But mind you if fuel goes back up and in a 10 year span you save $50K/yr in fuel? last I knew, $50K (for a 10 year modest life span) is no dog food! and in 20 years; it would be a $100K savings! Yuup, $100K gets your attention, eh? lol.

So my mind thinks this as; not as the coach already costs X amount, so what's a little more for fuel? You try to be as smart as you can in every department, fuel consumption with these 'behemoths' should be a consideration to some kind of level. Like said, if it is minimal between these two coaches, then yes... who cares! But I should know this one question before jumping into the 650hp Cornerstone.... and yes, the Anthem is like $150K less!

Cheers

We have an Anthem, I am heavy footed on the throttle. Towing I average 7.1 MPG and 70mph for me is SLOW. I stay 72-79 MPH. A friend who owns Cornerstone who tows a Jeep (as I do) gets about .1 to .2 less than me so it is negligible. You are correct about taller gears and less RPM. A diesel is an air breathing machine so RPM correlates to fuel delivery.

[Smitty77]

Congrats on your decision!!!

That is a huge black tank capacity, do you know if some drains flow to the black tank besides the throne? (If not, and you plan to do lots of boon docking. Search on this board for some of us who have put in pumps from Grey to Black, to increase overall capacity of the Grey (Usually the main limit on how long you can boon dock!))

And I know you're place the order for the truck too. But are you sure you have adequate contingency load/towing capacity with the F350 for that the Thunderbolt you have chosen. Especially loaded to go with the toys? 15+ years ago when I was research truck trailer/fiver vs Class A, I was planning to follow the advise I'd been given by many, to have a good 20% contingency of capacity on the tow vehicle as far as the trailer/fiver being towed. (You've done lots of homework, heck this is a long thread in itself, and I'm sure you've done much more too... But wanted to at least ask if you're 100% sure you have enough capacity with your two vehicle. F450 or even HDT's are not uncommon when seeing 38' + fivers. And yeah, part of your length is the garage, but goodies/weight go into that garage space too!)

But most of all, ongoing best of luck with your choices, and the upcoming RV barn too!
Smitty

[tropical36]

Originally Posted by AndyE_

We were in the SAME position as you during 2016. I went to AC, Newmar and Entegra and visited facilities and went to MANY shows from the East Coast (Hershey) to the West Coast (Pomona). I came seconds away from a Newmar. My wife was actually (Temporarily) upset with me not pulling the trigger on the 4369 Dutch Star. WE ARE BOTH GLAD WE didn't get the Dutch Star. We ended up with Entegra Anthem DEQ. We are empty nesters so we do not need a 1/2 bath, we wanted a bigger living room. The DEQ is perfect for that and the FULL bath is accessible while driving. The Anthem drives like a dream, it is on a K2 Spartan Chassis and I really mean this when I say it - IT IS WHISPER QUIET in the front area while driving. I lost interest in AC when I visited the factory. The Entegra factory seemed very interested, high care to the customer and quality, very clean, very organized and very precise. They have a two year warranty, that should say something. SOme other things that influenced me:

12.5 Gennie - STANDARD
3 AC units- STANDARD
In Motion Satellite- STANDARD
2 year warranty- STANDARD
The tiled shower and floors- STANDARD
And a multitude of other standard items.

There were only three options one was basement fridge, two was HD Travel'r Satellite and lastly was solar panels. The Entegra's are loaded. Newmar the build sheet is crazy, yes customizable but if you don't order a coach then you WILL HAVE to compromise, same with AC. The warranty is very good. Entegra authorized a non dealer to do warranty work and in fact that specific facility really liked Entegra.

These things influenced our buy:

-Pain and finish was very nice and we LOVED the scheme - Victory Blue

-AquaHot over Oasis. AquaHot 450D uses burner and engine heat while underway. Newmar needs Gennie running to power Oasis floor

-High Quality build

-Spartan chassis

-12.5 Gennie

- Loaded up with ALL the options we wanted

- Fantastic customer service and 2 year warranty

- We ended up buying it for 7k less than Dutch Star. Great deal.

- Love the DEQ floorplan

- Love the modern looking front and end caps. No comparison!

- Over Am Coach - Hung walls and flooring system

-Very Very good insulation

-Quietness of the ride while underway

-Thetford Turbo Sani-con standard

-Anthem for 2017 has fully automated system integration. I can put out slides and awnings while outside on my iPhone and totally control the coach with my phone.

I spent about 6 months during my decision making process to evaluate our decision. Like I said earlier, I came VERY close (within seconds of the Newmar) but ultimately bought the Entegra.

We are VERY happy.

To each their own. If you are anywhere near me you are welcome to come see mine and do a THOROUGH walk through and drive if it helps.

You've made some great choices and by now, you've surely came to realize that you can have a Newell or Prevost, as well, on your budget. It's just gonna have to be an 07 or thereabouts, is all. I'd probably go that route for the same money, but certainly not in the realm of everyone's thinking.

[rvethereyet]

congrats, enjoy, have fun and be safe