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Old 05-14-2021, 05:27 AM   #1
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Surge protection

Yesterday I知 talking to a guy at a local RV dealership, and the topic of built in (hardwired) surge protectors comes up. He tells me that even though a coach may be equipped with a surge protector, they recommend also having another one, that plugs into the outlet.

Is it necessary to have 2?
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Old 05-14-2021, 07:22 AM   #2
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I went for years without one until a lightening strike on the house cost a TV in the house and the Intellitec EMS board.

I then added the Progressive HW50, which does more then protect against surges. It also check for correct wiring, neutral, and voltage before it passes power.

With this I don't see a need for a second one. Only risk is if the HW50 fails I won't have shore power, could get by with generator or just bypass the surge protector until I got a new one.
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Old 05-14-2021, 07:42 AM   #3
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One is enough. Belt and suspenders are theoretically more secure. But, either one can do the job just fine.

Of course a surge protector on a 50 amp 240 volt system is good prevention. It protects expensive electronics and appliances. Most important, it protects against the high cost of failure caused by an open neutral line.
Of course a "surge Protector" should also monitor all the other parameters in addition to high voltage (a surge).

I don't know why one would need two such surge protectors. One on the coach side of a cable real can be useful, but an additional one on the pedestal only protects cord and the cord reel which are resilient to all the issues and if they did fail, would not cost much to replace.

I wish you good luck and happy trails ahead.
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Old 05-14-2021, 07:44 AM   #4
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are we talking about just surge protectors or full EMS units? the EMS unit provide surge protection and monitor the incoming power for correctness. they will disconnect the incoming power if it does not meet the acceptable limits (over or under voltage). if they interrupt the incoming voltage it is shut off. having another unit in the same power line does not provide any additional protection. once the power is interrupted is stops flowing.

i see no need for two.
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Old 05-14-2021, 08:02 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by bigchick View Post
are we talking about just surge protectors or full EMS units? the EMS unit provide surge protection and monitor the incoming power for correctness. they will disconnect the incoming power if it does not meet the acceptable limits (over or under voltage). if they interrupt the incoming voltage it is shut off. having another unit in the same power line does not provide any additional protection. once the power is interrupted is stops flowing.

i see no need for two.
That's what I thought also. I thought my EMS would shut down appliances in an over draw or low voltage situation.

Until this spring, when I went through my Coleman Mach Basement air nearly burning the coach down. Short story I heard it struggling and cycling. Capacitors shot. Replaced. Checked voltages one line had 37-47 volts. After replacing the plug, power cable, outlet all to no avail, (it would show 120 on each line until even a 1 amp load applied) checked the input and output of the pedestal breaker. Replaced breaker. Voltages are fine. Now at factory for several thousand $ of work. I will have an EMS Surge Protector in place before it gets pugged in again.

The real fun will be Mexico, where we have 30 amp 120 and the voltage varies from 97 to 139. We use one of these which step up and step down to hold a constant 117 volts. Now to determine where to put the EMS/Surge protector. Before or after the transformer.

https://www.mercadolibre.com.mx/regu...c-8747d0f6c65e
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Old 05-14-2021, 08:13 AM   #6
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All responses are right on.


However, we don't know exactly what the op and dealer were referring to by the term "surge protector". Reread the op. It is written as if the conversation was very generalized, and I suspect the person who suggested adding an additional protector was aware that many RVs, especially less expensive ones, have only a basic surge protector, not a full EMS.
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Old 05-14-2021, 09:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandcinok View Post
Yesterday I知 talking to a guy at a local RV dealership, and the topic of built in (hardwired) surge protectors comes up. He tells me that even though a coach may be equipped with a surge protector, they recommend also having another one, that plugs into the outlet.

Is it necessary to have 2?
I use two. I have a built in devise and I also use a portable Progressive that I plug into pedestals. I was told the built in version will handle small hits, etc. but the Progressive will do more by telling you up front if everything is wired properly as well as protect. I have a lot of electronic things on this coach and I will not take any chances if I don't need to.
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Old 05-14-2021, 10:02 AM   #8
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I知 new at this so, my description wasnt specific ehough I guess. This was a walk thru due to a purchase. When we were discussing the surge guard (brand name I think) panel the guy said they recommend also having a portable plugged into the pedastel.

Im (attempting) an attachment if a pic of the unit in the coach.

Thanks all fo the responses.
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Old 05-14-2021, 10:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandcinok View Post
I知 new at this so, my description wasnt specific ehough I guess. This was a walk thru due to a purchase. When we were discussing the surge guard (brand name I think) panel the guy said they recommend also having a portable plugged into the pedastel.

Im (attempting) an attachment if a pic of the unit in the coach.

Thanks all fo the responses.
That model is a complete protection unit, the kind you would like to have. I don't know if the part that sacrifices itself in a major surge is replaceable, and if not, a less expensive surge only protector at the pedestal may be worth it. I say "may" because the majority of issues are not surges, but low voltages which can damage motors, but the device in the picture protects against that.
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Old 05-14-2021, 11:15 AM   #10
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Anything built into the average RV is probably just minimal surge protection only. I would spend the money to get a Progressive Industries EMS device, such as the HW50C or PT50X that protects you against any kind of AC problem that could destroy thousands of dollars worth of equipment!
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Old 05-14-2021, 11:34 AM   #11
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One is enough. I use a Progressive HW50. If lightning is in the area, unplug from the post.
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Old 05-14-2021, 07:13 PM   #12
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Our coach came with a build in surge protector but you need an EMS system as well. We had one installed (you can also get one that you plug into the campground post, However our Progressive system is hard wired in and there is a readout monitor mounted inside the coach so i can see what is going on at any time.

This system has "saved" our coach 4 times over the last 3 years by shutting the system down for either low or high voltage to the rig.
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Old 05-15-2021, 07:58 AM   #13
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Get the make and model of the built in surge protector. Post it and we will evaluate it.

Many years ago, computers were highly sensitive to line voltage spikes and very expensive. "Surge" protectors for computers became popular. They were cheap and protected against one and only one voltage spike.

As the years went by computers were built with more resilience. Surge protectors became tougher and more expensive.

In the USA most electrical supply systems are now less likely to spike. However, there are other issues. Protections against all these issues has been more or less been built into modern "Surge" protectors. Modern surge protectors have become complected and much more expensive.

Certainly running A/C motors on low voltage can cause overheating and early failure. Certainly high voltage causes damage to many appliances. Certainly off frequency causes damage to transformers and motors.

However, the elephant in the room is the one that will eventually happen to most 240 volt 50 amp RV systems. The open neutral line or corroded high resistance in the neutral line. If something else does not kill your RV, this will likely happen some day.

This is what happened to the OP. Lots of expensive electronics and appliances were destroyed by a failed neutral line. Plugs wear. Sockets wear. Corrosion progresses. Switch contacts arc and fail. Eventually it will happen to your system.

A "surge" protector needs to protect against all these things, but especially against open neutral failure. All RV 240 volt 50 amp systems need a high quality "surge" protector.

Two surge protectors for the same RV are not usually needed. However, one that does not adequately protect is not helpful. Replace the inadequate one.

I wish you good luck and happy trails ahead!
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Old 05-15-2021, 08:05 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Persistent View Post
Get the make and model of the built in surge protector. Post it and we will evaluate it.

Many years ago, computers were highly sensitive to line voltage spikes and very expensive. "Surge" protectors for computers became popular. They were cheap and protected against one and only one voltage spike.

As the years went by computers were built with more resilience. Surge protectors became tougher and more expensive.

In the USA most electrical supply systems are now less likely to spike. However, there are other issues. Protections against all these issues has been more or less been built into modern "Surge" protectors. Modern surge protectors have become complected and much more expensive.

Certainly running A/C motors on low voltage can cause overheating and early failure. Certainly high voltage causes damage to many appliances. Certainly off frequency causes damage to transformers and motors.

However, the elephant in the room is the one that will eventually happen to most 240 volt 50 amp RV systems. The open neutral line or corroded high resistance in the neutral line. If something else does not kill your RV, this will likely happen some day.

This is what happened to the OP. Lots of expensive electronics and appliances were destroyed by a failed neutral line. Plugs wear. Sockets wear. Corrosion progresses. Switch contacts arc and fail. Eventually it will happen to your system.

A "surge" protector needs to protect against all these things, but especially against open neutral failure. All RV 240 volt 50 amp systems need a high quality "surge" protector.

Two surge protectors for the same RV are not usually needed. However, one that does not adequately protect is not helpful. Replace the inadequate one.

I wish you good luck and happy trails ahead!

He posted a photo of the surge protector in post #8!


Here are the specs from the manufacturer's website:
Surge Guard* 50A – Model 40240

Full Protection Hardwire



Rated 120/240V, 50A, 3350 Joules




Total Electrical Protection from Faulty Park Power
  • Multi-mode surge suppression
  • Automatic reset on power restoration
  • 128 second reset delay protects A/C compressor
  • Remote power monitor LCD display (English)
    • Joystick for easy screen navigation
    • Displays voltage and amp draw (RMS)

Protects against:
  • Power surges
  • Open ground
  • Open neutral
  • Low (<102V) and high (>132V) voltage
  • Reverse polarity
  • Miswired pedestal
  • High and low frequency
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