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Old 09-23-2021, 11:03 AM   #1
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Thinking about going to diesel

We have owned a Fleetwood Flair 28 ft and currently own a Winnebago Vista 27n LX. The upgrade to the Vista was a big improvement and a suspension upgrade improved the ride greatly. We are considering going to a diesel pusher. Specifically a Tiffin Red 340 33al that is available. The longevity of the motor home, reduced travel costs and smoother ride are influencing us. We would like to know what other people’s experiences have been if they have gone from a gas class A to a diesel pusher class A. Ride better? Mileage? No difference ��?
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Old 09-23-2021, 11:12 AM   #2
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I went from a 98 Gasser to a 2010 diesel. A lot more room, better built and drives great.

Bad part; air filter for gasser = $18. Air filter for the diesel = $135. Other parts are also more expensive.
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Old 09-23-2021, 11:14 AM   #3
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Hi ! Welcome to IRV2! We're sure glad you joined us!

I've never owned a Class A gasser, but I can't imagine riding for hours with that engine roaring under my feet! We knew nothing about motorhomes before getting the Windsor in 2012. I just lucked up for sure! It is so comfortable! I can drive for hours and not be tired out on arrival. It's so nice to be able to carry on a normal conversation or listen to soft music, barely hearing that big engine 40' behind us! I would much rather have an older DP than a new gasser! JMHO

Good luck, happy trails, and God bless!
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Old 09-23-2021, 12:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloHouse View Post
We have owned a Fleetwood Flair 28 ft and currently own a Winnebago Vista 27n LX. The upgrade to the Vista was a big improvement and a suspension upgrade improved the ride greatly. We are considering going to a diesel pusher. Specifically a Tiffin Red 340 33al that is available. The longevity of the motor home, reduced travel costs and smoother ride are influencing us. We would like to know what other people’s experiences have been if they have gone from a gas class A to a diesel pusher class A. Ride better? Mileage? No difference ��?
Note bold.


As alluded by 69Stang, you will not benefit from reduced costs of any consequence, travel or otherwise, by moving to a DP. Maintenance costs will definitely be higher. Simply consider the other benefits instead.
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Old 09-23-2021, 12:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSHappyCampers View Post
Hi ! Welcome to IRV2! We're sure glad you joined us!

I've never owned a Class A gasser, but I can't imagine riding for hours with that engine roaring under my feet! We knew nothing about motorhomes before getting the Windsor in 2012. I just lucked up for sure! It is so comfortable! I can drive for hours and not be tired out on arrival. It's so nice to be able to carry on a normal conversation or listen to soft music, barely hearing that big engine 40' behind us! I would much rather have an older DP than a new gasser! JMHO

Good luck, happy trails, and God bless!
This^^^ We feel exactly the same way. Having pulled a 36' 5th wheel with our 1T diesel pickup I am so happy now to be in a comfortable environment with tons of power so far behind us....the noise level is all but nonexistent and the additional room and convenience is amazing.

Yes the maintenance is higher.....an oil change is $300 but you only do that once a year and yes air filters are $125, but you can find them cheaper online.....I paid $64 on a close-out and bought a couple so were good for 3-4 years.

All in all, you get what you pay for.......... unless of course, you go for a little older Pusher then it's almost impossible to beat the overall value IMO.
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Old 09-23-2021, 12:05 PM   #6
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I went from a 2000 Monaco DP to a 2017 Bounder 22Klb F53 gasser. Gasser has all the basement storage of the old Diplomat, better built, waaay nicer and drives great.

The best part... easy peasy maintenance. No DEF or modern diesel emission issues to contend with. No CP4 failures either.
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Old 09-23-2021, 12:18 PM   #7
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Everyone has their own opinions on this and I am sure you will get many. The real answer is there is no "correct" answer for everyone. You can camp in anything from a hammock to the top of the line Class A. They all have Pro's and Con's. What makes the most sense for one person will not for someone else.



I bought a diesel and my reasons included:


They generally have more heavy duty parts. Most of the chassis items are commonly found on Class 8 trucks.



Air brake systems are more simple, more powerful, and often cheaper to service.

The wheel bearings, axles etc are usually more robust and have more capacity.

Air bags generally give a softer ride than springs
The engines and transmissions are generally more robust than gas versions.
I have a history of working on diesels and a comfort level with them. This reduced my need to hire out repairs/ maintenance.





My list of negatives for a diesel would include:


More expensive parts.


Sometimes parts availability may be worse, especially for engines.



Fuel more expensive



More expensive maintenance (oil changes, filters etc)


Higher initial cost.


Newer diesels have less interest to me because all of the electronic/ emissions/ computer gadgetry stuff makes them less reliable and more expensive to repair. Mine is an older mechanical engine which does not have this as a concern.



Lots more pro's and con's and I am sure you will get more to consider. It is a lot to think about. Good luck!
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Old 09-23-2021, 12:29 PM   #8
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I have the Red 340 33AL. I had a few kinks to work out, but I've learned this is the case for many new coaches. Not specific to this model. It has plenty of power for us. We tow a Grand Cherokee. Just got the last of my warranty work done. Hoping for it to last a long time. It is an "entry level DP", but I'm not really missing anything that I can't live without. Go for it.
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Old 09-23-2021, 12:46 PM   #9
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We went from a 99 Bounder T28, to a 04 Country Coach Allure 40', with Tag and ISL, and then about 9 years later - to our current 07 Country Coach Magna 45', with Tag and ISX600 (Pre DPF). Each step, was an improvement. Dramatic going from the Bounder to the Allure, and incrementally going from the Allure to the Magna. Concur that costs of ownership will be higher for a DP over a Gasser.

IF you are really contemplating making a change. I'd suggest you not do it just because a current coach has come along that is available.

I'd suggest you step back and determine what your needs are going forward, budget, miles expected to drive yearly, and how many days, weeks, months and even years - you plan to use an RV ahead.

Take the time to determine if you want to pull a heavy toad, or perhaps toy trailer. Do you see yourself doing lots of mountain driving. Do you see yourself going out for many months at a time of traveling. Do you see yourself (Should say 'selve's.) going 'RV Park to RV Park' or 'National/State/County/City Parks' or 'Boon Docking'? (Or come up what you anticipate the mix of these might be.).

Do some reading hear and elsewhere on the differences of DP's. Learn and understand:
-Side vs Rear Radiator
-Tag vs Non Tag
-Power to Weight Ratio
-Tank sizes
-Interior and Basement Storage capacity
-Towing capacity
-Heating sources (Oasis, Aqua/HydroHot vs all Propane
-Heated Tile Flooring
-Entry to Mid to High End coaches
-Differences in the generations of Diesel smog emissions evolution
-45' vs mid 30' sizes
-CCC
-Exhaust vs Compression Braking
-All wheel drums, vs at least Disc on Steers
-Etc.

(And I understand you are not 'new' to this, as you've had the two Class A Gasser's, and but as it is your first post - I can't get a feel for how long you may have been using these, and how!)

Purchasing new coaches usually immediately result in the early few years of first 'Bringing them up to what you want them to be. Both maintenance wise, and upgrading of say electronics and interiors.'. (This can be several thousand's. We put about $20-25K into maintenance catch-up, and refreshing of TV, and adding Residential refrigerator into our Allure within the first two years of ownership. We also then added another $20-25K over the time we owned it, adding solar, upgrading battery banks, customizing interior cabinets, etc.) (When we bought out Magna last year, we added about $20K of modifications and catch-up maintenance before we took delivery. And we'll do another about $10K this year too.)

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO THESE, but, as we are in ours from 7-10 months a year - well, we sort them out and set them up for what we want. And, we figure we amortize these costs out over a targeted 10 years of usage.

Once you have figured out what is important to you. And budget range, with I suggest leaving a good contingency for a minimum of any required catch-up maintenance to get a solid baseline for going forward. Start looking a coaches and determine a short list of manufactures and models and year ranges that you both feel are right for you. THEN, start your search.

I share this next tip as my own personal opinion. And for sure, many do it differently! And that's fine, as those who are writing the checks, should do what they feel is important to them!

IMO. 'Drop years to remain within budget range, and buy the highest quality coach that meets your likes and needs.' Quality lasts, and I know from personal experience, and the experiences of our RV'ing friends. That a coach of higher quality of chassis, materials, components and craftsmanship. Will in 10 years of good care, be still be a more pleasurable ownership experience then buying a newer coach of entry to mid level... And usually, higher up the food chain coach models, also come with bigger engines. Bigger engines add safety contingency of reserve power, and just as important, usually have higher Braking HP via Compression 2 to 3 Stage Jake braking (Or, retarder braking if a Foretravel!) - and many times the gearing and higher HP/Torque Power to Weight Ratio's - can yield the same, or slightly below, the MPG of Mid to Small size diesel engines!) --- (Again, all of this just my opinion!).

These are not investments financially, they're investments that pay dividends in the pleasure of usage!

Best of luck to you,
Smitty
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Old 09-23-2021, 05:09 PM   #10
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Go used. Pre-DEF engines.
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Old 09-23-2021, 05:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
We went from a 99 Bounder T28, to a 04 Country Coach Allure 40', with Tag and ISL, and then about 9 years later - to our current 07 Country Coach Magna 45', with Tag and ISX600 (Pre DPF). Each step, was an improvement. Dramatic going from the Bounder to the Allure, and incrementally going from the Allure to the Magna. Concur that costs of ownership will be higher for a DP over a Gasser.

IF you are really contemplating making a change. I'd suggest you not do it just because a current coach has come along that is available.

I'd suggest you step back and determine what your needs are going forward, budget, miles expected to drive yearly, and how many days, weeks, months and even years - you plan to use an RV ahead.

Take the time to determine if you want to pull a heavy toad, or perhaps toy trailer. Do you see yourself doing lots of mountain driving. Do you see yourself going out for many months at a time of traveling. Do you see yourself (Should say 'selve's.) going 'RV Park to RV Park' or 'National/State/County/City Parks' or 'Boon Docking'? (Or come up what you anticipate the mix of these might be.).

Do some reading hear and elsewhere on the differences of DP's. Learn and understand:
-Side vs Rear Radiator
-Tag vs Non Tag
-Power to Weight Ratio
-Tank sizes
-Interior and Basement Storage capacity
-Towing capacity
-Heating sources (Oasis, Aqua/HydroHot vs all Propane
-Heated Tile Flooring
-Entry to Mid to High End coaches
-Differences in the generations of Diesel smog emissions evolution
-45' vs mid 30' sizes
-CCC
-Exhaust vs Compression Braking
-All wheel drums, vs at least Disc on Steers
-Etc.

(And I understand you are not 'new' to this, as you've had the two Class A Gasser's, and but as it is your first post - I can't get a feel for how long you may have been using these, and how!)

Purchasing new coaches usually immediately result in the early few years of first 'Bringing them up to what you want them to be. Both maintenance wise, and upgrading of say electronics and interiors.'. (This can be several thousand's. We put about $20-25K into maintenance catch-up, and refreshing of TV, and adding Residential refrigerator into our Allure within the first two years of ownership. We also then added another $20-25K over the time we owned it, adding solar, upgrading battery banks, customizing interior cabinets, etc.) (When we bought out Magna last year, we added about $20K of modifications and catch-up maintenance before we took delivery. And we'll do another about $10K this year too.)

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO THESE, but, as we are in ours from 7-10 months a year - well, we sort them out and set them up for what we want. And, we figure we amortize these costs out over a targeted 10 years of usage.

Once you have figured out what is important to you. And budget range, with I suggest leaving a good contingency for a minimum of any required catch-up maintenance to get a solid baseline for going forward. Start looking a coaches and determine a short list of manufactures and models and year ranges that you both feel are right for you. THEN, start your search.

I share this next tip as my own personal opinion. And for sure, many do it differently! And that's fine, as those who are writing the checks, should do what they feel is important to them!

IMO. 'Drop years to remain within budget range, and buy the highest quality coach that meets your likes and needs.' Quality lasts, and I know from personal experience, and the experiences of our RV'ing friends. That a coach of higher quality of chassis, materials, components and craftsmanship. Will in 10 years of good care, be still be a more pleasurable ownership experience then buying a newer coach of entry to mid level... And usually, higher up the food chain coach models, also come with bigger engines. Bigger engines add safety contingency of reserve power, and just as important, usually have higher Braking HP via Compression 2 to 3 Stage Jake braking (Or, retarder braking if a Foretravel!) - and many times the gearing and higher HP/Torque Power to Weight Ratio's - can yield the same, or slightly below, the MPG of Mid to Small size diesel engines!) --- (Again, all of this just my opinion!).

These are not investments financially, they're investments that pay dividends in the pleasure of usage!

Best of luck to you,
Smitty
This^^^^^^ is without a doubt the best advice/experience you will get
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Old 09-23-2021, 05:48 PM   #12
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Drive the 33 before buying it as its kind of short and the ride might not be as good as you think. We went from a Red that was longer than the Phaeton that replaced it and the Red was a smoother ride. The floor plan and power of the Phaeton were worth the ride difference though for us.
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Old 09-23-2021, 06:14 PM   #13
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We went from a gasser to a pusher this summer and don't regret it at all. Already thinking about the next one now. lol
Maintenance is more but I don't agree they cost more to operate at least while traveling, my fuel millage increased and diesel is cheaper here, right now anyway. Plus I can go much further without having to fuel up due to the tank size which is a bonus.

We like the fact it's soooo much quieter then the V10 was between us, it drives nice and rides better. So far I am finding it easier to work on as well. Gets up the hills faster and the Jeep behind doesn't seem to bother it at all.

I can't think of anything that I liked enough about the gasser to make me go back.
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Old 09-23-2021, 06:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloHouse View Post
We have owned a Fleetwood Flair 28 ft and currently own a Winnebago Vista 27n LX. The upgrade to the Vista was a big improvement and a suspension upgrade improved the ride greatly. We are considering going to a diesel pusher. Specifically a Tiffin Red 340 33al that is available. The longevity of the motor home, reduced travel costs and smoother ride are influencing us. We would like to know what other people’s experiences have been if they have gone from a gas class A to a diesel pusher class A. Ride better? Mileage? No difference ��?
When I went into Semi-Retirement I decided to try a motorhome and travel to Mazatlan Mx to spend the winters. Budget allowed me to by a 2000 HR Endeavor. Pretty low miles. Nice layout. 36' Always felt it was a little underpowered and played the speed up going downhill to make it to the top at 50 mph. It was a nice coach, well built and the only mechanical problems I had were 1 wheel bearing failed while I was on the road, and the fuel pump acted up. Both easy fixes. I made 5 round trips of about 4800 miles each.

Last year I had some investments mature and went looking. I ended up with a 2006 Winnebago Journey 39k, 3 slides, 350 cat. Took off for my annual trek and by the time I got to Des Moines I wondered how I ever made it in that gasser. I got over 100 miles further the first day without pushing and was comfortable the whole time. Travel time in the gasser was always stressful. Watching for every bump, slowing for everything, planning on how to get up to highway speed. No more. In the hills of New Mexico I set the cruise and let it do its job.

As for the cost. I get about 1 mile to the gallon better on the DP than the gasser, but diesel cost a little more so that's a wash. I did my own oil and filters on my gasser, but I have decided it's not worth getting dirty for what they charge me on the DP. Yes, the service is more, but you don't have to do it as often.

As for the house part. Repairs cost the same on a DP as a Gasser. Plus I live 1 1/2 hour from the factory, and I can get it in for a drop off appointment within a day or two. Yup, I have to leave it, drive home, might be a couple days, might be a week, but they get it done, and right.

I hope I never have to go back to a gasser. I think the best value for me is to spend what I have to keeping up my 2006. As a former truck driver, I want to stay away from the emission motors, especially anything that uses DEF.

Get a DP and don't look back.
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