Tire Blowout, When & What Happened

[King Richard]

you only get to have a reply from those that survived... also, as you drive down some of the long quiet narrow highways, it is a good idea to think of where and how you will pull over.... prevention and care of your tires is extremely important as is having a plan if the worst happens. How could you practice for that event???? Just watch that which is savailable and use this valuable resource IRV2

[Blackey Cole]

Hav2had. Blow outs n both inner drive wheels other than the our noise of the tire blowing 6th. Wasn’t bad and the damage done t wasn’t bad the first one I was on the way to an appointment so after checking. Drove on to my destination then callled tre service the next day. On the trip home the other inner tire blew. I repacked both oute tires before next trip as the front looked goood. That was a couple years ago. I relaxed the front tire’s this year. The problem was I had a run flat system installed on the fronts when I bought the rig in 2017. We had to cut the totes off because of it. Then I had to order a emergency install kit that only helps in putting the bands on. It took several hours to come to the conclusion to cut the old tires off.once we did that we took the bands off installed one side wall of the tire then reinstalled the bands using the kit then finished installing the new tires like normal the balanced the tires then back on the rig. I have a super c jayco Seneca.

I would rather go through this on the front heels than loose control of the rig. I go about 65 mph max with my trailer maybe 70 without. Usually that’s less than the posted speed limit out here in the west. When I first got the rig my speeds were much lower but I’ve gained experience and most of all confidence driving the Motorhome I started with tag trailers then got a fifth wheel then this super c. I did like driving the bus type rvs. I recommend doing your homework and see if the run flare system might be something for you or if you plan to inspect your tires regularly and use Tpms you watch for a blowout by reading thee tire pressure. I learned to buy the more expensive rv tires with smaller rv trailers as their that sell you truck tire are doing you a disservice.

Do what you feel comfortable doing.

[Sewspcl]

Watch Pippi Peterson on YouTube Episode where she shows you what a blow out can do on a class A. It ripped up all the bays along the side and caused tons of damage. It was not on her rig it was on a friends.

[retired long]

I will add also to the Michelin video.This was a planned video therfore the driver was aware the blow out would happen an had his both hands on the wheel.I find it hard to believe flooring accelerator will help any thing.It has not been said enough that two hands on the coach.give you presious split second to control coach in a blow out.I also do not use cruise as no matter how you look at cruise you again will not have precious split seconds to react to situation.

[ramiller]

I would like to respond to the disbelief in the effect of acceleration. I was driving an Allegro 35 foot gas MH at 60 MPH on a four lane divided hwy in the right lane. I experienced a run flat on the left front. I did not know what was happening but I needed more power to maintain speed. both hands on the wheel, no cruise. Then the tire came apart. I held on and did not hit brakes. The pull to the left was overwhelming. I was a 200 lb healthy 56 year male. In 2 seconds I yelled to my wife I can't hold it. I was half way through the left lane. I remembered and hit the accelerator. In 2 more seconds the steering was light I could steer with one hand. It was awesome. Felt like divine intervention. I held the throttle for only a few more seconds and then slowly backed off.. Steering was still controllable. Let off completely and started applying brakes slowly. Got the speed down to 15 and steered to the shoulder.



My conclusion: yes the blow tire on the front is steerable. No, the sudden loss of the tire was not controllable with just the power steering. The chassis was Workhorse with the 8.1 GM engine. It had everything Banks make. Sounded like NASCAR. Lots of power and that may have made a difference. I remember the transmission downshifting but that may have been the converter unlocking.



I could not have gained more than 5 MPH (did not look or care at the moment) The MH and car would be close to 26,000 pounds.


Results were almost perfect. The tire tread came off as one piece, the sidewalls held together until stopped. The tread laid flat. No damage to the MH or the car in tow. I walked back about 1/2 mile to take it out of the drive lanes. I was all alone on the highway which could have made a major difference if there were a vehicle in the left lane.



BTW, they were beautiful Goodyear tires with no checking. But 8 years old. Please get rid of your old tires no matter how great they look.



It may not work on all MH or all situations but it worked for me.


One more thing, in the second video, look at the front wheel as it passed the camera. Before the tire loss. It looks like the front airbags are deflated. Notice the tire clearance and the level of the front end.

[Cloud Dancer]

....."the pull to the left was overwhelming".....
*
This would be easy to believe if only there was a satisfactory scientific/analytical source of energy for this exterior pulling force. Actually, there is nothing out there that would suddenly pull the front of the motorhome to the side. Analytically, all you have is a large object that's rolling straight on its tires. If suddenly the front starts to significantly move to one side, we need to look at all the available normal causal forces. And, it we want the front to start moving to the other side, we need to look for a force which the driver can bring about that will do this.
One thing to consider is that it was the driver who allowed this to happen in the first place. I personally don't believe it was the fault of the tire. I believe that it's the driver who is responsible for properly driving the motorhome. But, driver incapacitation is always a possibility.

[strato]

[QUOTE=Mlfiedler;4460372]I'm a pretty green Newbie, but want to understand the world I've adopted. For the past week, I have been following the discussion of what's a comfortable cruise speed in a DP. What surprised me was the frequency of comments linking a lower cruise speed to more control in the event of a tire blowing out.

Surely, a blowout, whether on the steer axle or elsewhere, has got to be a scary, and harrowing event. And I sort of expect comments about blowouts in threads about tires aging-out before they wear-out, etc. But should I be bracing for a blowout anytime I find myself zooming down a mountain grade at more than 65 mph? I mean, understanding the possibilities is one thing, but must every trip be a white knuckle event?

I would like to hear the stories of any DP, or even Class C guys, who have had a blowout, anywhere on their rig. At the risk of being tedious, it would be great to know which corner of the rig had a blowout, where that misfortune took you (off the road? across 3 lanes of traffic? into the median?) and how the coach faired -- wheel well shattered, wet-bay and tanks busted apart, coach on its side somewhere you didn't choose -- surely it gets gruesome sometimes. What may have contributed to the problem: how old the tire was, was it a hot day, were your tires carefully inflated and monitored regularly, was the coach overloaded, did you hit a huge pothole or other "road hazard"? Where does this event fit in your experience as an RV'er -- how many miles have you driven the same coach before (or after) that, without another blowout?

This isn't a request for testimonials about Brand X tires that haven't let you down in 20 years. But looking for how many tires do blow out, and what may be ways to avoid adding to that score. Thanks for any input.[/QUI


I cam only say when we had a blowout on the front drivers side, if I wasn't prepared it would have taken me off the road. I had just read you don't hit your brakes in a blowout situation. Ypou let off the gas and coast to a stop off the road. This occured to me on a two lane highway no streetlights or any lighting for fifty miles around and iffy cell service. When it went my wife and d-i-l thought a car had fired a shotgun at us. It took a lot to pull it back on the highway and keep from going in the desert on the opposite side of the road. If a car would have been coming we would have totaled at 55 mph, and the other vehicle the same or more. I do think pulling my boat help to anchor us a little. We had a hour and a half wait for assistance to get it changed, with every vehicle blowing their air horn at us,( very small shoulder.) For all these reasons and more, I drive 55 at all times. p.s. no damage to R.V. just took a while for us to calm down. This occurred with one year old brand name tires. I change mine every seven years if they look good or not. You can find the date they were made on the tires. Use that date ,not the date you bought them.

[ramiller]

I think the force you are looking for is the difference from a rolling tire at 100psi and the rolling resistance of a flat disintegrating tire. The power steering of a workhorse chassis could not overcome that force. I new something had changed and was holding tight. The run flat only caused me to think I am going up a slight hill, need a little more power. There was no hill so now you have my undivided attention. Within a few seconds the tire came apart. It was sudden and tremendous pull. It would be akin to sticking that front tire in the deep mud while all the others were rolling along. The bus would try to come around the stuck tire, thus the feel of a pull to the left.


I now have a Spartan chassis with Hendrickson front end. I believe this mechanical marvel would do much better at maintaining control without more push from the rear.


Alan

[jaysigel]

Tire life will expire before tread life in RV tires. The speed rating on RV tires is rarely more than 70 MPH. A blowout will cause more damage than a new tire as the tire tread flops around in the wheel well destroying everything in its path (brake lines, hydraulics, wiring, compartments). Replace tires with new Michelins (FMCA has discounts) every 6-7 years. NOT driving on them actually reduces their live span, garaging your RV helps. Ozone, UV, moisture and chemicals will cause sidewall failures eventually. Expect to spend $600/tire and replace them all. Mounting, disposal, balancing are all usually extra. If you have the room, carrying a spare in a compartment is nice. Should you need a roadside tire change and tell the repair guy that you have a spare, but make sure he understands that it is not mounted (since you may have as many as 3 different kinds of rims). He will hate you!

[falconbro]

We had an explosive blowout on the left side rear, inside, dually in 10 lanes of interstate at rush hour. It SUCKED out loud (or blew actually). My wife just about literally had a cardiac event. It sounded like someone fired a 12 gauge shotgun next to our heads.



We did have two very fortunate things.. I was in the right lane when it went so I just eased over to the shoulder, where people continued to blow by me at 70 MPH inches away. But, the best part was..there was a tire store at the very next exit (like, 100 yards away) that sold us a new set of tires.



I'm just real happy that it wasn't a front tire. I will note that the blowout took some of the fun out of driving that thing for a while. We have a Suburban and a 27 foot travel trailer now. It gives the illusion of less stress..

[Cloud Dancer]

Originally Posted by ramiller

I think the force you are looking for is the difference from a rolling tire at 100psi and the rolling resistance of a flat disintegrating tire. The power steering of a workhorse chassis could not overcome that force. I new something had changed and was holding tight. The run flat only caused me to think I am going up a slight hill, need a little more power. There was no hill so now you have my undivided attention. Within a few seconds the tire came apart. It was sudden and tremendous pull. It would be akin to sticking that front tire in the deep mud while all the others were rolling along. The bus would try to come around the stuck tire, thus the feel of a pull to the left.


I now have a Spartan chassis with Hendrickson front end. I believe this mechanical marvel would do much better at maintaining control without more push from the rear.


Alan

I know all the forces of which I speak. The frontal rolling resistance force which you mention is well known and established as a force that acts similar to a drag force on a boat or aircraft. IT ACTS IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION of movement of the vehicle. Except, that the impact center of this particular force is OUTBOARD of the vertical axis of the SPINDLE, which is linked to the steering tire spindle on the other side, which means that this force will try to STEER BOTH front tires. It has been demonstrated that this force is not very strong. In fact, all the instructional videos show clearly that it can be easily defeated by approximately 5 to 7 degrees of steering wheel angle. Plus many of us have experienced exactly this event ourselves. Many of us are completely satisfied that we can easily maintain control of our motorhome and stay in our lane, even with a failed front steer tire.

[Solo_RV_Guy]

Originally Posted by RiverBurt

The throttle thing is simple vector math. Dead reckoning 101.

Not like you’re akshully gonna accelerate. Just reduce the net effect of the collapse.

Not rocket science. Prehistoric physics.

+11




"Give me a vector, Victor!"

[kurt-o-matic]

[Warning: wall of text incoming, take cover! ]

Cloud Dancer, every time this topic comes up you have to take over the thread with your shouty, no-paragraph challenges to some admittedly unintuitive advice offered by the Michelin video. No explanation offered ever satisfies you, so you come back and try again, every, single, time.

I'm feeling a wee masochistic this afternoon, so let's try a hypothetical scenario, just for fun! We've got a coach traveling in a perfectly straight line on a flat, featureless plane (and constant speed, too, because why not?). We're now going to experience a blowout on the left, front tire, but here is our twist: the front wheels are fixed straight, and cannot be turned or steered at all. Locked tight, straight line only, with no input from the driver.

When our blowout occurs, is the coach going to continue in a straight line, or is it going to veer to left? If we're only moving very slowly, the remaining traction on our right-hand front tire might be enough to keep us more or less straight, but at any kind of highway speed, the lateral force caused by the blow-out is going to drag the whole coach, and the front-right tire along with it, over into a left-hand turn. No steering input required.

You seem to get rolling resistance, but then you get lost in hypothesizing about steering, spindle axes, and forces on steering. In this scenario, the coach's steering is not in play, but the coach is still going to turn, regardless. The difference in rolling resistance from one front corner to the other introduces a lateral force on the entire vehicle. If both front tires blew at the same time and offered the same rolling resistance, no lateral force would be introduced, and the coach would continue on straight (although slower, obviously).

Back in the real world scenario, our left front wheel is providing a large rolling resistance, and zero steering traction, but our right front is still low resistance and has traction, and if we turn the steering to the right, we can use that traction to counter the new lateral force pulling the coach to the left. If we don't have a hand on the steering at all, then the steering wheel will follow the coach and turn to left without input from a driver, but that is a secondary effect of the turn, not the cause of it.

So let's talk about steering. When people talk about gaining (or losing) control over the steering, they don't mean control over the steering wheel, they mean control of the forces guiding the coach. Since we don't routinely drive around with a front flat tire, we lack muscle memory for controlling the resulting force imbalance. When this imbalance is suddenly thrust upon us without warning, it takes a few brain cycles to get our bearings. I'm sure we've all operated a vehicle in an emergency situation where we instinctively resorted to quick, small, but controlled inputs to measure the responses the vehicle gives us to that input. It might take 2 or 3 of these cycles for even the best driver to sort out the new normal. Once we've re-calibrated, and we regain confidence about getting predictable outcomes, then we feel like we are "back in control."

You made a really good observation on this thread about staying on the pavement, and I couldn't agree more. The key to a good outcome of a blowout scenario is keeping your rig inside the paint. That's ultimately what all of this is about. Hit the shoulder (or another vehicle) too fast, and we're toast.

This is where the accelerator bugaboo enters, stage right.

There are two factors here, time and traction. We need time to gain control over the changed dynamics of the coach; if we go off the side before re-calibrating, we'll probably never recover control. So we need to buy ourselves time to regain confident control. I'm going to guess that anyone that has kept their rig between the lines for 3-5 seconds after a blowout is probably golden at that point; I think (and this is just my barely informed opinion) that its those first seconds that cause or prevent a failure spiral. Anything we do to increase our time margin is critically important.

We buy that time with traction. If we're inattentive drivers, and have weak control over the steering wheel, we have basically surrendered the traction we started with, putting ourselves in the hole. So when you've written about maintaining good control of the steering wheel, I think everyone agrees. I've never experienced a blowout, and I don't want to make assumptions about what kind of manual driver inputs are required to counter the forces of a front tire blowout, but I think that this could vary greatly depending on a ton of variables outside the scope of forum speculation. I don't know why the driver in the famous dashcam video failed to prevent that coach going off the pavement so quickly, and I don't believe anyone else here does either, so I'm going refrain from guessing.

Anyway, about hitting the gas... If you're carving a corner in your sports car, do you decelerate all the way through the apex of your turn, or do you brake going into the turn, and then accelerate out of the corner? I think we all understand that you get better traction when accelerating than decelerating, all else being equal. Here's the thing: even if our blowout occurs on a straight line stretch of road, the lateral force has involuntarily put us in a cornering situation. The coach is cornering, even if the road isn't, and even if you've got good control of the steering. This is the essential problem, after all. The coach is cornering, and you need to steer out of that corner to stay between the lines. If accelerating, even just a little, increases your traction and buys you a few extra moments of time, for just long enough to regain control confidence, then you should absolutely smash that puppy into the carpet.

To summarize: in the event of a front steering tire blowout on one side of the coach, a lateral force vector will result from the severe imbalance of our rolling resistances, reducing our traction and putting us into an undesirable turn. In order to stay in our lane, we need time to re-calibrate our control of the vehicle, and we need to recover as much traction as possible. Anything we do that increases our margin of time or increases our traction is desirable. Poor steering control reduces our time margin for recovery. Decelerating gives up traction and makes control recovery take longer. Accelerating with positive steering control adds traction and speeds recovery of control. Only after we have control stabilized, can we afford to give up a little traction in order to decelerate predictably. The End.

Now, I don't know if I covered all of your usual CAPLOCK points, and you may be no more convinced by my narrative than anyone else's, and that's okay. Truthfully, I'm not really trying to convince you (or anyone else) that you're wrong about anything. I just thought it'd be cathartic, after reading your cut-n-paste for the Nth time, to reiterate why so many of us find the Michelin video convincing, in a way that other readers can relate to. Peace-out, everybody!

[sdennislee]

Originally Posted by kurt-o-matic

[Warning: wall of text incoming, take cover! ]

Cloud Dancer, every time this topic comes up you have to take over the thread with your shouty, no-paragraph challenges to some admittedly unintuitive advice offered by the Michelin video. No explanation offered ever satisfies you, so you come back and try again, every, single, time.

I'm feeling a wee masochistic this afternoon, so let's try a hypothetical scenario, just for fun! We've got a coach traveling in a perfectly straight line on a flat, featureless plane (and constant speed, too, because why not?). We're now going to experience a blowout on the left, front tire, but here is our twist: the front wheels are fixed straight, and cannot be turned or steered at all. Locked tight, straight line only, with no input from the driver.

When our blowout occurs, is the coach going to continue in a straight line, or is it going to veer to left? If we're only moving very slowly, the remaining traction on our right-hand front tire might be enough to keep us more or less straight, but at any kind of highway speed, the lateral force caused by the blow-out is going to drag the whole coach, and the front-right tire along with it, over into a left-hand turn. No steering input required.

You seem to get rolling resistance, but then you get lost in hypothesizing about steering, spindle axes, and forces on steering. In this scenario, the coach's steering is not in play, but the coach is still going to turn, regardless. The difference in rolling resistance from one front corner to the other introduces a lateral force on the entire vehicle. If both front tires blew at the same time and offered the same rolling resistance, no lateral force would be introduced, and the coach would continue on straight (although slower, obviously).

Back in the real world scenario, our left front wheel is providing a large rolling resistance, and zero steering traction, but our right front is still low resistance and has traction, and if we turn the steering to the right, we can use that traction to counter the new lateral force pulling the coach to the left. If we don't have a hand on the steering at all, then the steering wheel will follow the coach and turn to left without input from a driver, but that is a secondary effect of the turn, not the cause of it.

So let's talk about steering. When people talk about gaining (or losing) control over the steering, they don't mean control over the steering wheel, they mean control of the forces guiding the coach. Since we don't routinely drive around with a front flat tire, we lack muscle memory for controlling the resulting force imbalance. When this imbalance is suddenly thrust upon us without warning, it takes a few brain cycles to get our bearings. I'm sure we've all operated a vehicle in an emergency situation where we instinctively resorted to quick, small, but controlled inputs to measure the responses the vehicle gives us to that input. It might take 2 or 3 of these cycles for even the best driver to sort out the new normal. Once we've re-calibrated, and we regain confidence about getting predictable outcomes, then we feel like we are "back in control."

You made a really good observation on this thread about staying on the pavement, and I couldn't agree more. The key to a good outcome of a blowout scenario is keeping your rig inside the paint. That's ultimately what all of this is about. Hit the shoulder (or another vehicle) too fast, and we're toast.

This is where the accelerator bugaboo enters, stage right.

There are two factors here, time and traction. We need time to gain control over the changed dynamics of the coach; if we go off the side before re-calibrating, we'll probably never recover control. So we need to buy ourselves time to regain confident control. I'm going to guess that anyone that has kept their rig between the lines for 3-5 seconds after a blowout is probably golden at that point; I think (and this is just my barely informed opinion) that its those first seconds that cause or prevent a failure spiral. Anything we do to increase our time margin is critically important.

We buy that time with traction. If we're inattentive drivers, and have weak control over the steering wheel, we have basically surrendered the traction we started with, putting ourselves in the hole. So when you've written about maintaining good control of the steering wheel, I think everyone agrees. I've never experienced a blowout, and I don't want to make assumptions about what kind of manual driver inputs are required to counter the forces of a front tire blowout, but I think that this could vary greatly depending on a ton of variables outside the scope of forum speculation. I don't know why the driver in the famous dashcam video failed to prevent that coach going off the pavement so quickly, and I don't believe anyone else here does either, so I'm going refrain from guessing.

Anyway, about hitting the gas... If you're carving a corner in your sports car, do you decelerate all the way through the apex of your turn, or do you brake going into the turn, and then accelerate out of the corner? I think we all understand that you get better traction when accelerating than decelerating, all else being equal. Here's the thing: even if our blowout occurs on a straight line stretch of road, the lateral force has involuntarily put us in a cornering situation. The coach is cornering, even if the road isn't, and even if you've got good control of the steering. This is the essential problem, after all. The coach is cornering, and you need to steer out of that corner to stay between the lines. If accelerating, even just a little, increases your traction and buys you a few extra moments of time, for just long enough to regain control confidence, then you should absolutely smash that puppy into the carpet.

To summarize: in the event of a front steering tire blowout on one side of the coach, a lateral force vector will result from the severe imbalance of our rolling resistances, reducing our traction and putting us into an undesirable turn. In order to stay in our lane, we need time to re-calibrate our control of the vehicle, and we need to recover as much traction as possible. Anything we do that increases our margin of time or increases our traction is desirable. Poor steering control reduces our time margin for recovery. Decelerating gives up traction and makes control recovery take longer. Accelerating with positive steering control adds traction and speeds recovery of control. Only after we have control stabilized, can we afford to give up a little traction in order to decelerate predictably. The End.

Now, I don't know if I covered all of your usual CAPLOCK points, and you may be no more convinced by my narrative than anyone else's, and that's okay. Truthfully, I'm not really trying to convince you (or anyone else) that you're wrong about anything. I just thought it'd be cathartic, after reading your cut-n-paste for the Nth time, to reiterate why so many of us find the Michelin video convincing, in a way that other readers can relate to. Peace-out, everybody!

TLDR all of it in one setting but must say well said, I’ve often thought the same thing just could put it in words.