Today's dumb question: Tag axles

[Crasher]

Originally Posted by KanzKran

The Newmar Supreme Aire lists a tag axle, but both rear axles are 20,000 lb GAWR. From the pics, they're not super singles, but duals. And the GVWR is 18+20+20 kips (F+R+T). So it would appear it's a single-screw chassis with full capacity tag.

https://www.newmarcorp.com/super-c-m...e/coach-specs/

It's not a drive with a tag axle but a tandem drive axle. Here's a quote from their specs:

Both of the tandem rear axles are drive axles, putting 8 tires in drive when fully engaged. It will likely have a very smooth ride with a 309” + tag wheelbase. Adding to that smooth ride will be BOTH air ride seats AND an air ride cab. That is actually one of the most unique features of the Newmar Super Star and Supreme Aire Super C coaches.

FWIW, A Newell has a 20K front, 28.6K drive and a 16K single tag. Plus, it's 17,000# heavier than the Supreme Aire.

[KanzKran]

So it is. That makes more sense. I only read the chassis specs (in the link I posted), where they refer to the second axle as a tag, and the wheelbase as 285+TA (or 309+TA). Which it's not. So I don't know why they call it that.

[TheWoodBoss]

Tag axles are good. Get the class A, the area above the cab in a class C is not really that great in my opinion. I looked at both early on before we decided what we wanted. I don't have a tag axle and I'm fine with that but if it were 40' long I would probably be wanting a tag. Good Luck.

[ORF]

Originally Posted by MichaelInNM

I'll remind people I'm very new to this purchase journey and still learning, so forgive me if I sound a little slow....

My wife seems to love a Super C- an actual hood with alot of motor to absorb a crash, typically mid-entry, and she says they 'look less scary'.

I'm in love with Class As. I know there's no airbags and if we're in an accident at 60 MPH and airbag probably won't do much anyway. I don't care about mid entry. However, one thing I keep seeing is how valuable a tag axle is.

To be clear I'm looking at coaches >40 feet and I understand the tradeoff of a longer coach. What I see though is arguments for and against a tag. In my head I'm thinking yes it's more expense with tires and moving parts, but part of me also says if the costs outweighed the benefit tractor trailers wouldn't use them. Then I hear about greater stability and control and as the goober behind the wheel I kinda would prefer any advantage I can get driving 30K+ pounds down the road.

What do you think- is a tag axle that big of a deal? If not, would a super C be safer?

Tag Axles give a smoother and more comfortable ride than duel rear wheels and better braking, but it does initially cost more. Beside for the initial cost, the other downside is one more axle you have to pay for if using toll road. Everybody I know that have them think they are well worth the extra cost.

[KFed 90-10]

I am a fairly new owner of a 2014 Renegade Classic Super C, 45 footer, with twin screw drive tandem axle, Eaton 13 speed auto shift and a Cummins ISX15 Liter. I have put about 2000 miles on it and couldn't be more impressed with the stability and smooth ride, especially compared to my old class C gasser. Driving down I40 near Gallup, NM, the only reason I could tell the wind was blowing sideways was because the DP in front of me was leaning at a substantial angle due to the wind. My rig has the ability to lock both rear axles, as I plan to do a lot of boondocking off the paved road. My mileage between Albuquerque and Phoenix averaged 7.5 with the cruise set at 75. So far my vote is for tandem axle and Class 8 truck chassis for smoothness, stability, safety and ease of serviceability.

[Capt. Bill]

I have owned 4 coaches- 2 without tag axles & 2 with tag axles- I will never go back to a coach greater than 38' in length that doesn't have a tag!
The big advantages of a tag axle are;
1) Greater load carrying capacity
2) More braking power& shorter stopping distance- more Sq." brake area & tire tread on the ground
3) Much smoother ride- no tail porpoising
4) Better handling-less tail wiggle in a high side wind
5) Looks like a coach & not a truck!

The downside is:
1) Greater initial cost
2) Greater cost to maintain- tires, brakes, hubs & another set of tires & rims to wash & polish.

All things considered- Go with the tag axle!!!

Happy Trails

[UncleJamie]

Originally Posted by MichaelInNM

I'll remind people I'm very new to this purchase journey and still learning, so forgive me if I sound a little slow....

My wife seems to love a Super C- an actual hood with alot of motor to absorb a crash, typically mid-entry, and she says they 'look less scary'.

I'm in love with Class As. I know there's no airbags and if we're in an accident at 60 MPH and airbag probably won't do much anyway. I don't care about mid entry. However, one thing I keep seeing is how valuable a tag axle is.

To be clear I'm looking at coaches >40 feet and I understand the tradeoff of a longer coach. What I see though is arguments for and against a tag. In my head I'm thinking yes it's more expense with tires and moving parts, but part of me also says if the costs outweighed the benefit tractor trailers wouldn't use them. Then I hear about greater stability and control and as the goober behind the wheel I kinda would prefer any advantage I can get driving 30K+ pounds down the road.

What do you think- is a tag axle that big of a deal? If not, would a super C be safer?

I thought I’d give you my experience from owning 2 diesel pushers, with and without a tag.

My first rv was a 2005 sports coach encore. 39 foot class a diesel pusher on a freightliner chassis with a 360Cat engine. Chassis was rated around 37000 pounds. (If memory is serving me correctly, but these are very close numbers). Purchased in 2008 to see if our family would like the rv travel vacation thing (we did ).

Now my experience behind the wheel..
The first thing that surprised me was the first time I got overtaken by an 18 wheeler on the interstate. The air his rig was pushing forced (literally pushed me) about 4 or 5 feet to my right. Thankfully I was in the slow lane (far right lane) which meant I just crept over into the shoulder. It became evident that I needed to be constantly observing my mirrors, because I had to literally slightly steer into a passing 18 wheeler to maintain my lane. Don’t even get me started about very windy days. You do get used to it, and I could certainly tell that lighter rv’s had it even worse, but it did require a very high level of concentration which leaves you exhausted after long drive days (mentally exhausted and knots in your shoulders).
Full disclosure.. owned that rv for 8 years and put 70,000 miles on it. Loved it and cherish the memories.

Now my current coach.
2016 Entegra anthem. 44feet 10 inches class a diesel pusher on a spartan chassis with tag axle and 450 Cummins engine. Chassis is rated for 49,000 pounds.

Now my experience driving this machine.
The day I purchased it in March 2016 it was pretty windy. The dealer said that I could camp in the customer service full hook up sites as long as I wanted to, to wait for good weather. It really wasn’t that bad so I decided to push on thinking I would just be tired when I got home. To my surprise I literally didn’t feel a thing. Not sure if the difference is the added weight or the tag, (most certainly both) but this thing just tracks straight and is whisper quiet. My encore if the wind was blowing certain directions made a howling noise in the cab section. The second thing that really surprised me was when the first 18 wheeler overtook me, I was bracing for the fight to maintain my lane, and nothing. I mean absolutely nothing. Couldn’t feel a thing. The rv just tracked straight and true.

For me the tag is priceless. After long days of driving my shoulders are not all knotted up like they were with my old coach.

As far as a super c is concerned, I have zero experience, so you are on your own. My advice is to test drive, test drive, test drive. It’s a big purchase, and you should know what your getting.

I will close on this thought. My class a has an enormous windshield. I like to say it’s like driving an IMAX down the road. The view out that massive windshield in pretty country is sometimes breathtaking. I like to say the vacation begins when we pull away from the driveway.


Good luck to you and let us know what you decide.

[Ivylog]

In 2012 a bill was passed making 24K legal on a single axle for buses and RVs ...2 tons more than trucks. This makes it possible to have a newer 40-42’ with some CCC without a tag. Not sure how Newell is getting away with a 28.6K drive axle...2+ tons over max legal for RVs??? “A Newell has a 20K front, 28.6K drive and a 16K single tag.”

[Crasher]

Originally Posted by Ivylog

Not sure how Newell is getting away with a 28.6K drive axle...2+ tons over max legal for RVs??? “A Newell has a 20K front, 28.6K drive and a 16K single tag.”

Probably for the same reason the 65' legal length is not enforced on an over length RV. My son is taking his Newell into the factory next month and I'll have him ask if there is any agreement that allows it. He's also 75' long, so he could get a double whammy if the laws were enforced for RV's

[grindstone01]

I don't understand the need for a tag axle on a RV coach?
I hauled gravel yesterday with a 3 axle trailer that included a tag axle. This is a good combination when loaded and when empty the lifted tag is easier on tire scuffing during turns. For a commercial truck that averages 400 miles every day, tire replacement is a major expense that justifies a tag lift.
On a RV coach, the load does not change that much, so the only benefit of lifting a axle is to save on tire wear during turns. For a RV, tire replacement expense would not justify the cost of the tag lift option. Also, consider the added weight your lifted tag axle will place on the other already maxed out (never unloaded) RV tires.

[01cruzer]

We had just purchased our 36' class A from a private sale. On our way home about 200 miles I had to climb the brakes hard. Some one stopped on a two lane 65MPH highway to look at a road side sale. I blew the right front caliper. The tag is the only thing that saved my rear. Put them up in smoke but stopped the coach. Limped into the next town & I changed the caliper & front pads. I now have replaced all 4 calipers/pads & master cylinder. Tags saved my rear. Could have been real ugly.

[gpounder]

When I owned a charter bus (signature picture) with a Tag it had a separate hand brake on the steering column. I used it a number of times in the snow, like through out the anchor to keep me pointed in the right direction.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by gpounder

When I owned a charter bus (signature picture) with a Tag it had a separate hand brake on the steering column. I used it a number of times in the snow, like through out the anchor to keep me pointed in the right direction.

Trucks have that too - a hand brake for the trailer brakes. They don't recommend doing what you described anymore. When the wheels lose traction there is no longer any directional control, and apply brakes to just one axle makes it more likely they'll lock up. Do this on a curve or slanted road and the rear end is likely to go off course. If the rear end locks up and starts sliding sideways it might wind up in front of you - not an enviable situation. They were finding more problems with people manually applying the rear brakes than not.

Before anyone flames me with exceptions, of course there are times when it might be helpful applying just the rear brakes. And yes, for years trucks were built without brakes on the steer axle at all. But, in general terms applying brakes to just one axle is not going to be as good as having all wheels brake evenly.

[f360racer]

"A 40-45 foot coach has a big turning radius because of the long wheel base. If it also has a tag the radius might be even a bit greater, but probably not much. The tag is behind the pivot point (the drive axle) so the only effect it has on radius is some potential sideways drag resistance and most coaches easily overcome that, even in a sharp turn.[/QUOTE]"

Yes that is true. Most tag axles on higher end coaches also raise allowing for a tighter turning radius. My coach, a 45' CC Affinity is able to complete a U-Turn at a gas station from one set of pumps to the next set of pumps in one swoop. That would be outboard side to outboard side with no issues. I also didn't need to raise the tag for that. Honestly I forgot to do it and it worked anyway.