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Old 01-16-2019, 09:24 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masdixdragon View Post
Have to agree with this...chains are far easier to inspect than wrapped cables and considering whats at stake not a chance Id even consider using cables after seeing this.

Chains need to be checked for stretch; scratches, nicks or other penetrations of any case hardening; rust and corrosion; and cracked link welds among other things.



A simple visual review of "hey, that looks okay" is not an "inspection."


Wire rope and slings made therefrom have specific inspection criteria, too. Any rust or corrosion of wire rope slings indicates they should be immediately removed from service. Any flattening, bulging, or deformation of the "lay" (twist) disqualifies the wire rope or sling from continue service. This isn't meant to be definitive - there are other criteria that could disqualify a wire rope product from further use.


The comments earlier about load testing and dynamic/shock loads is spot on. In my day job all wire rope slings or chains have a WLL (working load limit) of 10-20% of the ultimate breaking strength specifically to account for unintended dynamic loading. A towed vehicle represents a shock load when the primary tow attachment fails, the towed vehicle slows and is jerked when it slows enough to transfer the load to the towing vehicle.


No safety component should ever drag the ground and should be treated with anti-rust or anti-corrosion chemicals and at a minimum, be inspected carefully before and after each use.


My "day job" involves suspending tons of very expensive equipment over very expensive entertainers and audiences.


I'm very glad to see that the OP's tow failure didn't kill or injure anyone. This could have been one of those "RV fatality accident" posts we see too often.
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Old 01-16-2019, 03:53 PM   #30
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I can certainly see a shock load parting the cables, especially if they were corroded. However, there is no way that pin should have sheared. You could hang the entire motorhome from that pin unless it had some serious issues. I am thinking maybe the hair pin clip came off somehow and let the hitch pin fall out?
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Old 01-17-2019, 01:06 AM   #31
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I guess we'll all remain confused about the required breakaway not stopping the truck.

If there was no breakaway and the truck had caused any damage ot bodily injury I would think the OP would have been criminally liable. What do you think?

I think we all have to understand that faulty or missing equipment is the responsibility of the driver. IMO.

Glad the OP didn't have any damage except for his own gear, thus he didn't end up in jail. That could ruin lives very quickly.
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Old 01-17-2019, 05:06 AM   #32
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This kind of post kind of stress test the "Be Nice" if I voice my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryantclan View Post

While merging on to i70 after a quick rest, the hitch pin for the tow bar gave. Which was followed by the two 10k pound rated tow cables breaking and the truck taking a separate trip from the RV. .
Un-hook before back on hiway after a stop? Fire the driver, he did not do any checks before leaving...


Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyMac View Post
Did the breakaway brake activate before the toad got to the length of the safety cables? I see this setup all the time, and is seems illogical. The breakaway lanyard needs to be longer than the safety cables/chains, so the breakaway does not activate while the toad is safely held by the cables. The breakaway should activate once he cables give out and the toad is indeed away onits own.

I disagree. I once watched a idiot try to scramble his family by not getting the coupler on the ball before latching it. (While fanning gears, working brakes and Jakes to let him have the whole road) The safety chains held but the TT was whipping the pickup all over the road. I'm sure that if the trailer brakes would of been on it would of been a more constant pull, kept both chains tight.
You are right, the brakes applied will put more strain on the cables, but IMHO, there is no reason to wait until you have a totally unguided missile before trying to stop it.
No brakes on the trailer, also can mean a lot of damage when trailer slams into TV. But that is not a problem, as long as it only destroys the driver's stuff and family.


Quote:
Originally Posted by raineman View Post
To me, that setup has a considerable amount of rust and corrosion to the point I would not have used it. Glad no one was hurt.
I can't see the cable well enough to judge, but I can see no rust that shows a weakness in the hitch. Surface rust where the paint is knocked doesn't amount to a pinch of snot...
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Old 01-17-2019, 06:41 AM   #33
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Lots of speculation about what coulda,shoulda,woulda happened,but did the hitch pin shear or fall out? That's what set everything in motion.Inquiring minds want to know.
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:32 AM   #34
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from looking at the receiver looks like the pin fell out...not sure what exactly OP meant by failed...the lock holding it fail perhaps? or cotter pin came out or broke or was removed at the stop? Hate to think it was possible vandalism but seems all too coincidental these type incidents happen not long after roadway stops
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:32 AM   #35
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"I disagree. I once watched a idiot try to scramble his family by not getting the coupler on the ball before latching it. (While fanning gears, working brakes and Jakes to let him have the whole road) The safety chains held but the TT was whipping the pickup all over the road. I'm sure that if the trailer brakes would of been on it would of been a more constant pull, kept both chains tight. "

A slight tap of the trailer brakes will straighten a whipping trailer, the breakaway will apply the full power of the breakaway battery to the brakes. It will apply significantly greater force to the safety chains/cables, likley resulting in a full breakaway anad a trailer stopping suddenly in the middle of the road. I'd rather it hit the back of my rig as opposed to someone else.
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Old 01-17-2019, 03:17 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyMac View Post
"I disagree. I once watched a idiot try to scramble his family by not getting the coupler on the ball before latching it. (While fanning gears, working brakes and Jakes to let him have the whole road) The safety chains held but the TT was whipping the pickup all over the road. I'm sure that if the trailer brakes would of been on it would of been a more constant pull, kept both chains tight. "

A slight tap of the trailer brakes will straighten a whipping trailer, the breakaway will apply the full power of the breakaway battery to the brakes. It will apply significantly greater force to the safety chains/cables, likley resulting in a full breakaway anad a trailer stopping suddenly in the middle of the road. I'd rather it hit the back of my rig as opposed to someone else.
Yes, a slight tap will stop a normal swaying trailer. But when the coupler is off the ball the action does not start and get worse, what I saw was bam! 0 to full on snotstorm. Lock the trailer wheels, and if the chains hold, you can maybe guide it off the road.
Trailer stop in the middle of the road? That is not the worse outcome I have seen. I think the break away by design works wrong. On separation, a better design would lock the brake of the TV This would guarantee the lose trailer hits nobody else, but slams into the one that let it escape...
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Old 01-17-2019, 03:57 PM   #37
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Glad no one was hurt. The OP has more experience then I do with his miles and more RV's too.

Easy to Monday AM Quarterback... I appreciate the OP sharing his info, and pictures. I took it as a good safety reminder for us all.

I also thought his description of his equipment was of good components. Air Force One is one of the key recommended brake assists for DP.

I suspect he did not share everything with us, and is also probably trying to sort out what happened. I do hope a he finds more info, he share with us more details. Both from a component stand point, and installation one too.

And I will share that I had good equipment, properly installed, and properly hooked up. Leaving a fuel station in Portland, about 20 minutes down the road South on I5. We dropped a ping from where our bars connect to our CRV. Never felt a thing, and my periodic sweeping of the rear camera had not yet detected it - when a gent pulled up on the Driver's side and honked to get my attention, and pointed to the back of the coach. Yep, camera sweep saw the CRV sweeping back and forth. We lost the tow bar due to both arms being damaged beyond repair. The cables held (I had 10K rated cables with the lighter CRV.). And the US Gear Brake Away did not engage, as the break away cable did not pull out the pin, appropriately so.

I share all of the above, because just 20 mins before this occurred. I had done what i always do when stopping for any reason. I walked the rig, checked the connection, and those who know the CRV - I also ran it thru the gears. Everything was in good shape from that walk thru.

We feel we lost the cylinder lock from the Blue Ox pin. And the pin worked it's way out. (Note. Two years before, I'd lost a pin cylinder lock, and fortunately caught it before the pin came out. Assumed it was a mistake I had made in not fully engaging the lock. Replaced both pins at that time, with the same highly rated lock.) I say we, as the Tailer Hitch place I went to in Eugene, recommended by OMC, told me they'd seen at least 3-4 occurrences per year, where the cylinder lock had fallen off. They also asked me the directions I mounted the pins? I told them I put bent elbows to the inside, an the cylinder to the outside, as I felt it looked cleaner. They educated me that the normal movement of the tow arms, with my Blue Ox knuckles, place pressure on the upside of the pins (Outside, means towards the Left and Right sides.) They suggested I should put the Elbow of the Pin on the outside, and locks on the inside. They felt that the locks on the outside, were receiving more force then they could withstand, until the locks eventually fail and fall off... So, I now do what they recommended.

As more info sharing. I replaced the cables, at the same time I moved from the Stirling All Terrain 5K tow bar, to the 10K unit I bought to replace the damaged unit.

-----

So even the most vigilant, and experienced RV'er - can have 'Sh_t Happen'... And that is how accidents like this can happen, even for the most diligent of owner.

I hope the OP comes back with further updates, and again, appreciate him sharing what must have been a puckering event for sure!!

Best to him and his clan, and all of you,
Smitty
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Old 01-18-2019, 04:50 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyMac View Post
Did the breakaway brake activate before the toad got to the length of the safety cables? I see this setup all the time, and is seems illogical. The breakaway lanyard needs to be longer than the safety cables/chains, so the breakaway does not activate while the toad is safely held by the cables. The breakaway should activate once he cables give out and the toad is indeed away onits own.
This is something that will break the safety cables in nothing flat. No safety cables can stand up to a towed vehicle with the brakes fully locked up being pulled by a 25,000 vehicle going 60 MPH.

I don't know why some folks think the breakaway should activate while the safety cables are still intact.
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Old 01-18-2019, 06:42 AM   #39
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I agree. I'll have to vote for the break away brakes being a last resort too, once the towed vehicle is completely freed. So long as the towed vehicle is still tethered by the safety chains/cables, the driver stands a much better chance of executing a controlled pull off stop, especially if the brakes on the towed vehicle are still linked to the tow vehicle.

At highway speeds, it would take some very stout safety cables/chains to keep the towed vehicle tethered to the tow vehicle if the towed vehicle's brakes locked. Given the various combinations of cables, hooks, crimps, shackles, pins, chains, etc. used for safety cables/chains. The likelihood of that the catastrophe finding a weak link is very good. Easing it to a stop, even at the expense of destroying the back end of the tow vehicle, is still a better option.
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Old 01-18-2019, 06:46 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
And I will share that I had good equipment, properly installed, and properly hooked up. Leaving a fuel station in Portland, about 20 minutes down the road South on I5. We dropped a ping from where our bars connect to our CRV. Never felt a thing, and my periodic sweeping of the rear camera had not yet detected it - when a gent pulled up on the Driver's side and honked to get my attention, and pointed to the back of the coach. Yep, camera sweep saw the CRV sweeping back and forth. We lost the tow bar due to both arms being damaged beyond repair. The cables held (I had 10K rated cables with the lighter CRV.). And the US Gear Brake Away did not engage, as the break away cable did not pull out the pin, appropriately so.
Appropriately so? I fail to understand. If the brakes had been set on the toad, would you have noticed the harder pull, not had to force somebody else to risk their life passing the cocked gun to get your attention?


Quote:
I share all of the above, because just 20 mins before this occurred. I had done what i always do when stopping for any reason. I walked the rig, checked the connection, and those who know the CRV - I also ran it thru the gears. Everything was in good shape from that walk thru.
Everything in good shape? But then you say


Quote:
They also asked me the directions I mounted the pins? I told them I put bent elbows to the inside, an the cylinder to the outside, as I felt it looked cleaner. They educated me that the normal movement of the tow arms, with my Blue Ox knuckles, place pressure on the upside of the pins (Outside, means towards the Left and Right sides.) They suggested I should put the Elbow of the Pin on the outside, and locks on the inside. They felt that the locks on the outside, were receiving more force then they could withstand, until the locks eventually fail and fall off... So, I now do what they recommended. They also asked me the directions I mounted the pins? I told them I put bent elbows to the inside, an the cylinder to the outside, as I felt it looked cleaner. They educated me that the normal movement of the tow arms, with my Blue Ox knuckles, place pressure on the upside of the pins (Outside, means towards the Left and Right sides.) They suggested I should put the Elbow of the Pin on the outside, and locks on the inside. They felt that the locks on the outside, were receiving more force then they could withstand, until the locks eventually fail and fall off... So, I now do what they recommended.
This is a indication to me that you, like many others, wait until after something goes wrong before studying up on the safe way to do it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hohenwald48 View Post
This is something that will break the safety cables in nothing flat. No safety cables can stand up to a towed vehicle with the brakes fully locked up being pulled by a 25,000 vehicle going 60 MPH.

I don't know why some folks think the breakaway should activate while the safety cables are still intact.
I think the breakaway should activate while cables are still hooked for one reason. The sooner brakes come on the sooner snot stops. That is a fact. With cables only attached, you have no control over the trailer, and it jerking side to side on the back of TV can limit your control of the TV. Now the fact that this could put you, TV and or trailer off the road does not matter to me. But the more distance the parts travel, the more chance somebody else will be involved
The driver is responsible to be sure the vehicles stay connected. The kids on the bus that gets hit by the loose trailer are not!
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Old 01-18-2019, 09:42 AM   #41
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"I think..."

I don't "think", I know. It actually happened to me. It was 1990, I was towing a 22' TT with my 1979 Jeep Cherokee full-size 401CI Turbo350 TV to a squadron camp-out, when a weld on the hitch failed. The first thing noticed was the something bumped the TV. I let up off the gas and looked in the mirror and saw the TT bump me again.

"I think the breakaway should activate while cables are still hooked for one reason. The sooner brakes come on the sooner snot [sic] stops."

Probably true. It will likely stop nearly immediately in the lane of travel, in the case of a TT, WITHOUT BRAKE LIGHTS. My toad would light its own brake lights, I assume most toads would, but a TT or 5er, I'm thinking nearly immediate stop in the travel lane without brake lights. Not good for those following, nor for the owner once all the court cases are settled. Sooner is not better in all cases, but in all cases, just stay calm and 'fly the jet, don't let it fly you.'

"That is a fact."

In my EXPERIENCE, no, it is not. Saying it is a fact does not make it a fact, it is still supposition. My experience IS a fact.


"With cables only attached, you have no control over the trailer, and it jerking side to side on the back of TV can limit your control of the TV."

I had nearly complete control of the TT, except that it would bump into the back of the Jeep as I slowed and pulled to the shoulder. I got it stopped, and turned on the flashers and LIT A SMOKE!!! I was mumbling profanity and giving thanks to my merciful maker all at the same time.

But do you want to know what ELSE I learned, do you want to profit from the misfortunes of others? There are no flashers on the trailer after you drive the TV away to get the hitch re-welded. It is just a big, dark box on the side of the road, with lights installed, and several big batteries, nut no way to connect them. Sure, I put out reflectors to warn other drivers. But when I got the rig home, I designed and installed a switch and a flasher such that, when I am disconnected from the TV, a flip of the switch flashes all the clearance lights and tail lights. I never had to use it again, but I had it just in case.
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:39 AM   #42
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I have the disconnect switch on my Avalanche, but it has just laid behind the grill and not mounted so it could be used. Reading this post prompted me to mount it so it can actually be used. I have the M&G air brake system which has a reserve tank under the hood. When the lanyard pulls the plug out the brakes are applied. The air hose is longer than the cables, so I would have control of the Avalanche brakes until the cables failed and the air hose comes apart. That is the point that I will have the lanyard pull the plug. I see no reason to apply full brakes when I can still gradually slow the train to a safe stop.
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