UNABLE to locate my "BIRD"or "IRD" in my 2007 Monaco Camelot 42PDQ

[Quick68]

[QUOTE=windsorbill;6031074]

Originally Posted by Quick68

I have been all over this Motorhome looking for my BIRD or the IRD. I'm sure I have one somewhere in this Motorhome but I have not been able to find out where it is located. Most people say that I should have the BIRD system but I am not sure. I'm having a problem with my chassis batteries staying charged while I am plugged into shore power. I'm having to use my battery boost to start the Motorhome. Most people have said that it is located in where the battery cut off switches are located or in the forward electrical box located just under the driver but it is not located in this compartment either. I have been all over this Motorhome and I have had no luck . Please see photos
In the first picture in the Lower left corner of that picture the 12volt solenoid is very warm to the touch. Possibly hotter then it should be?
In these two pictures I do not see anything related to the BIRD system?
Any information would be greatly appreciated.


Frank,

You have an IRD, not a BIRD. If working, it's designed to connected both banks of batteries while main engine is running. Look on your panel where I circled it.( pretty hard to see it from picture even when I enlarged it.)
Attachment 352452

The echo charger is designed to connect your engine start batteries to the battery charger through the house batteries, thus charging the engine batteries from shore power. If your engine start batteries are always low, I'd check the battery condition or the echo charger. Echo chargers are after market items, not installed my monaco when your coach was built.

Here's is Echo Charger manual. You might check to be sure it was wired up correctly. (I see 2 fuse holder in your picture and also the chassis main switch appears 'off' ).

https://www.xantrex.com/documents/Ac...20Charger).pdf

Windsorbill.
Omg. Thank you so for your time and help. I think you might have solved this issue.
I know now that everything else is working like it should be with the exception of either the IRD or the echo charger. Thank you for the manual for the echo charger. I found it once on line but lost it in some other research I was doing. So I think I am going to look for another echo charger or something to replace the echo with something maybe better?
If all the echo is is just a battery charger then I'm wondering if just a battery charger/maintainer will work as a substitute? I can see now that this is going to get interesting.
Thanks again for your help and assistance. I do appreciate it.
Thanks Frank.

[windsorbill]

[QUOTE=Quick68;6031134]

Originally Posted by windsorbill

Windsorbill.
Omg. Thank you so for your time and help. I think you might have solved this issue.
I know now that everything else is working like it should be with the exception of either the IRD or the echo charger. Thank you for the manual for the echo charger. I found it once on line but lost it in some other research I was doing. So I think I am going to look for another echo charger or something to replace the echo with something maybe better?
If all the echo is is just a battery charger then I'm wondering if just a battery charger/maintainer will work as a substitute? I can see now that this is going to get interesting.
Thanks again for your help and assistance. I do appreciate it.
Thanks Frank.

The echo charger is not a battery charger. All it does is allow the charger to charge the engine start batteries (chassis) through the house batteries. I wouldn't replace the echo charger unless you determine it's not working/defective. I don't think there is anything 'better' than it. Before spending any $$, verify it's wired correctly with the display lights working per the manual.

[Twomed]

The Echo Charger was used by Safari and Beaver in lieu of bird wiring. Simple, and they work well. They do what you seek...keep the chassis/start bats full while hooked to shore power or running genset.

[Quick68]

[QUOTE=windsorbill;6031161]

Originally Posted by Quick68

The echo charger is not a battery charger. All it does is allow the charger to charge the engine start batteries (chassis) through the house batteries. I wouldn't replace the echo charger unless you determine it's not working/defective. I don't think there is anything 'better' than it. Before spending any $$, verify it's wired correctly with the display lights working per the manual.

Hi windsorbill
Mine is connected properly, I just think it has expired. I've checked all the wires and connections and they are all good. I'm not charging the chassis batteries while plugged into shore power. I know that the alternator is working like it is supposed to. I'm thinking that the IRD is working because I don't have any issues while the Motorhome's engine is running. I'm just having a issues with chassis batteries not charging while I'm plugged into shore power. So I'm thinking that the echo isn't allowing the shore power to change the chassis batteries while plugged in to shore power.

[windsorbill]

[QUOTE=Quick68;6031205]

Originally Posted by windsorbill

Hi windsorbill
Mine is connected properly, I just think it has expired. I've checked all the wires and connections and they are all good. I'm not charging the chassis batteries while plugged into shore power. I know that the alternator is working like it is supposed to. I'm thinking that the IRD is working because I don't have any issues while the Motorhome's engine is running. I'm just having a issues with chassis batteries not charging while I'm plugged into shore power. So I'm thinking that the echo isn't allowing the shore power to change the chassis batteries while plugged in to shore power.

it does sound like it's not working. However, just confirming your picture, it looks like the chassis battery switch is "off". The way your echo charger is wired into the solenoid, with the switch off, it won't allow the engine batteries to charge.


just a thought before you purchase a new EC....

[Quick68]

[QUOTE=windsorbill;6031367]

Originally Posted by Quick68

it does sound like it's not working. However, just confirming your picture, it looks like the chassis battery switch is "off". The way your echo charger is wired into the solenoid, with the switch off, it won't allow the engine batteries to charge.

Attachment 352464



just a thought before you purchase a new EC....

Hi ,
Yes you are correct. The chassis battery switch is off. If I leave the chassis switch on .... the chassis batteries will only last about 6 hours and they are done. I leave that switch off because everything connected to the chassis batteries runs constantly and kills the batteries. If there is a way to reroute the charging sequence then that is my best option. When I use the Motorhome after I have parked I have to remember to shut off the chassis battery switch so it won't kill my batteries . I'm open for any suggestion?
Thanks Frank

[windsorbill]

[QUOTE=Quick68;6031422]

Originally Posted by windsorbill

Hi ,
Yes you are correct. The chassis battery switch is off. If I leave the chassis switch on .... the chassis batteries will only last about 6 hours and they are done. I leave that switch off because everything connected to the chassis batteries runs constantly and kills the batteries. If there is a way to reroute the charging sequence then that is my best option. When I use the Motorhome after I have parked I have to remember to shut off the chassis battery switch so it won't kill my batteries . I'm open for any suggestion?
Thanks Frank

1. If your chassis batteries are drained within 6 hours, something isn't right. There shouldn't be that much load on them with ignition OFF.

2. Are your batteries in the next compartment where the echo charger is mounted?

If so, you can run a wire through that bulkhead and connect Echo charger directly to your chassis batteries. That way the chassis batteries will charge with shore power or generator, no matter what the position of the chassis battery switch.

[Quick68]

[QUOTE=windsorbill;6031441]

Originally Posted by Quick68

1. If your chassis batteries are drained within 6 hours, something isn't right. There shouldn't be that much load on them with ignition OFF.

2. Are your batteries in the next compartment where the echo charger is mounted?

If so, you can run a wire through that bulkhead and connect Echo charger directly to your chassis batteries. That way the chassis batteries will charge with shore power or generator, no matter what the position of the chassis battery switch.

Hi,
Yes... there is definitely a problem. That's what my post is about. Both my chassis and my house batteries are in the compartment next to the compartment where the cut-off switches are located.

In the picture you can see just above the echo charger is basically connected directly to the chassis batteries pretty much like you mentioned.

I'm thinking that I probably should move the charge control wire to the other side of the chassis batteries so that it could charge the batteries while the switch is in the off position..... just a thought?
I'm pretty sure now that the IRD isn't my concern anymore but I could be wrong. But according to what I have read online the IRD is doing what it is intended to do.
So that leads me to believe that the reason the chassis batteries are not charging is because of a echo charger not working properly or not working at all
Thanks Frank.

[Quick68]

Well I think I might have found the issue I was experiencing with my chassis batteries not charging while plugged into shore power. A few months ago I had a issues with the Motorhome not starting. One of my neighbors had stopped by and he was checking the two fuses in the compartment (in the picture above) seems when he put the fuse holders back together he mixed them up. Didn't know that until I was checking everything over I had noticed it the two wires were not connected correctly. The engine start wire in the picture has a yellow line on the wire. I noticed that the two different after the fuse link. So I switched them back and now the system seems to be working properly. It has been charging overnight so time will tell. I did start the Motorhome and I let it run for awhile and I took a battery check. From reading a previous post on this issue it looks like it should normal now.
I want to thank everyone who reached out to help
I do appreciate your assistance
Frank.

[Jim_HiTek]

To answer your earlier question, and for lurkers on this thread...yes, it's fine to put a standard float charger on the chassis batteries. I did that for 12 years with my Bounder. But I had a convenient 120Vac outlet in the compartment right next to the battery compartment. It was a Schumacher 1.5 amp float charger I picked up at Walmart for $20 back in 2004. It kept my batts charged up just fine. Nothing needed to be done other then connect it to the +/- terminals and plug it in.

When I sold the Bounder and bought this Journey, measured the voltage across the chassis batts and found no charging voltage when on shore power. It could have a BIRD built in, but I didn't bother checking, I just got a Trik-L-Start and wired it's 3 wires to the two batt sets. Easy. Works fine keeping them charged up.

Maybe I should do that some day, find if I have a BIRD. It's been six years now with the TLS so no hurry. Problem is that this Winnebago doesn't have an electrical compartment like a lot of RVs have so don't know where to look for it. HAH!

[weighman695]

I am having the same issue as Quick68, except that I do not have an Echo charger installed as his. See the attached photo of my setup. Photo No. 1 show the whole battery connections bay and Photo No. 2 is a close-up of the Trombetta solenoid. Both photos were taken before replacing the solenoid.

Today, I replaced my Trombetta solenoid 114-1211-010 (copper contacts) with Trombetta 114-1211-020 (silver alloy contacts) because my house batteries does not boost my chassis batteries when the battery boost switch is pressed and held for at least 1 minute as mentioned in you tube. The voltages across the top lugs of the solenoid are not the same (one lug with 13.74 Volts and the other 12.33 Volts). I also replaced my two Interstate 31-MHD house batteries because Interstate Battery of Las Vegas said that the battery is dead. I also tested the batteries before bringing them to Interstate using TOPDON ArtiBattery 101 battery tester and the results shows to replace the batteries. Batteries were 3 years old next month and trombetta was since 2007 manufacture of coach.

With the new new solenoid and new batteries, the readings are both 13.51 Volts on both lugs. During replacement, I removed all the wires and labeled them accordingly and rewire the same way before the replacement of solenoid.

I noticed that on Quick68 pictures of the trombetta solenoid, the purple wire is located at the right side of the solenoid and the white wire is located on the left side of the solenoid. As you can see in the attached picture, the purple wire is in the left side of the solenoid and the white wire is in the right side of the solenoid, which is a reverse connections compared to Quick68.

Questions:
1. Does it matter if the purple and white wires are connected the way as it is shown in the attached picture?
2. With the picture no.1 as attached setup, am I charging my house batteries while on shore power?
2. If not, should I buy and install a product like these? AMP-L-START Starting Battery Charger/Maintainer - Overview Page OR Mega TRIK-L-START Starting Battery Charger/Maintainer

Jim,

I have an electrical outlet in my battery compartment where I can plug the float charger. I assume I have to connect the positive lead to the positive lug and the negative lead to the negative lug of the house batteries. If I install my Schumacher 1.5 amp float charger which is in my storage for almost t 5 years now, do I need to unplug the float charger when I am going to travel and when the generator will be turned on? Or, can I just install and forget?

Thank you very much and BTW, I am new on all of these and new to RVing.

[Jim_HiTek]

What matters with the wire colors on that solenoid is how they are connected to the diode (assuming you bought an exact replacement solenoid). The diode is that black cylindrical device with the white band on one end, connected across the relay terminals. It can be mounted either direction on the solenoid.

BUT, the purple wire (hot) must go to the end of the diode with the white band. The white wire (ground) goes on the other end.

I can't tell from the picture what is charging what.

Either the Amp-L-Start or the Trik-L-Start will work. The Amp L is more versatile in that it will charge both flooded cell and Lithium AND it has a higher charging output so the batteries would come back up to full charge faster after being exhausted. An example of this is if you arrive at an RV park and they don't have a space for you for a few hours, so you sit and wait. When you plug into shore power, an Amp L will get your batteries up to full charge faster. Not that it matters much. If you're not going to be switching to Lithium OR if you're not planning on being a heavy duty battery user, the Trik L would work fine.

It was my experience that the Schumacher float charger CAN be hooked up permanently and forgotten. None of the situations you mentioned bothered my float charger or bothered my charging system. And it's hooked up to the CHASSIS batteries, not the house.

[jacwjames]

My wiring and charging system was different as I had a BIRD, Isolation Relay that served also as a battery boost, and a Lambert 415 which was suppose to maintain the chassis battery while plugged. I started to question the Lambert 415 as my chassis batteries were always showing ~12.4 and seemed sluggish.

Another Monaco Dynasty owner suggested I look at the Bluesea ML-ACR which would replace all of the above. Cost at the time was ~$180. So I jumped in did the changed, basically replacing the Isolation relay with the Bluesea and attaching the house and chassis battery leads to it. I replace the battery boost switch with Bluesea switch, had to run one extra wire to get it to work. Works like a champ, anytime I'm plugged in or running my generator my chassis batteries are charged and while driving the house batteries are charged. With the switch I can leave it on auotmatic, ON, or OFF.

No more worries about keeping my batteries charged.

[windsorbill]

Originally Posted by weighman695

I am having the same issue as Quick68, except that I do not have an Echo charger installed as his. See the attached photo of my setup. Photo No. 1 show the whole battery connections bay and Photo No. 2 is a close-up of the Trombetta solenoid. Both photos were taken before replacing the solenoid.

Today, I replaced my Trombetta solenoid 114-1211-010 (copper contacts) with Trombetta 114-1211-020 (silver alloy contacts) because my house batteries does not boost my chassis batteries when the battery boost switch is pressed and held for at least 1 minute as mentioned in you tube. The voltages across the top lugs of the solenoid are not the same (one lug with 13.74 Volts and the other 12.33 Volts). I also replaced my two Interstate 31-MHD house batteries because Interstate Battery of Las Vegas said that the battery is dead. I also tested the batteries before bringing them to Interstate using TOPDON ArtiBattery 101 battery tester and the results shows to replace the batteries. Batteries were 3 years old next month and trombetta was since 2007 manufacture of coach.

With the new new solenoid and new batteries, the readings are both 13.51 Volts on both lugs. During replacement, I removed all the wires and labeled them accordingly and rewire the same way before the replacement of solenoid.

I noticed that on Quick68 pictures of the trombetta solenoid, the purple wire is located at the right side of the solenoid and the white wire is located on the left side of the solenoid. As you can see in the attached picture, the purple wire is in the left side of the solenoid and the white wire is in the right side of the solenoid, which is a reverse connections compared to Quick68.

Questions:
1. Does it matter if the purple and white wires are connected the way as it is shown in the attached picture?
2. With the picture no.1 as attached setup, am I charging my house batteries while on shore power?
2. If not, should I buy and install a product like these? AMP-L-START Starting Battery Charger/Maintainer - Overview Page OR Mega TRIK-L-START Starting Battery Charger/Maintainer

Jim,

I have an electrical outlet in my battery compartment where I can plug the float charger. I assume I have to connect the positive lead to the positive lug and the negative lead to the negative lug of the house batteries. If I install my Schumacher 1.5 amp float charger which is in my storage for almost t 5 years now, do I need to unplug the float charger when I am going to travel and when the generator will be turned on? Or, can I just install and forget?

Thank you very much and BTW, I am new on all of these and new to RVing.

Earnel,

Quick answers to your questions. Then read the details. 1. no 2. probably not, but read below for more info. 3. possibly yes, either one you have listed or the echo charger like OP has.

You have the same year coach as the OP, and one would assume you have an Isolator Relay Delay (IRD) in the front electrical compartment, not an BIRD. But verify that before you purchase anything. Post a picture here of the front electical bay, if you need help.

That said, assuming you have an IRD, your SHORE POWER will only charge the house batteries, not the chassis batteries. That's when a Echo charger or similar, will charge the chassis (engine start) batteries while on shore power.