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Old 07-05-2022, 08:31 AM   #57
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I can picture a scenario in my head. We have some state park campgrounds that shut their vehicle access gates at night, effectively locking everyone in. And out.

So the midnight pizza delivery would be something like this?
"OK so you'll have to park at the gate and walk the rest of the way in. Don't worry about which site we're on, you'll see it. Everyone else has their lights off but we'll be lit up like an international airport!"
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Old 07-05-2022, 08:33 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by LMHS View Post
[Moderator Edit]
As with any hobby or sport, not using common sense, not practicing proper etiquette, and not showing respect for others, are some of the reasons new rules have to be made. A person purposely doing things to agitate others, as you mentioned you would do in a previous post, is certainly a way to cause grief and end up having new rules imposed.

On topic, lighting under a camper is fine in most cases. Situating it in a way that blinds the neighbors is NOT ok. As far as keeping mice away, I don't know anything about pack rats but I doubt it does much to discourage ordinary rodents. As someone mentioned, lighting would most likely draw bugs in, which imo, could entice other critters to come in for a meal.
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Old 07-05-2022, 06:15 PM   #59
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It’s for people who are afraid of the dark.
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Old 07-06-2022, 11:49 AM   #60
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"• Moth balls — Under NO circumstances should moth balls be used as a pack rat deterrent. They are both hazardous to human health and EPA regulated against use of this type."


Knowing how the EPA rolls, the above statement suggests that moth balls are very effective as a pack rat deterrent....
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Old 07-06-2022, 11:57 AM   #61
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I use strobe lights and sirens to keep the tyrannosaurs away - so far so good - I do get a lot of rodents and mosquitos though. And for some reason a lot of my neighbors seem to have anger issues...

P.S. if you're afraid of the dark maybe you shouldn't go to dark places - and try to turn them into undark places - ruining the darkness for those who enjoy it. It's like those who can't abide peace and quiet so destroy it with their boomboxes or whatever - never seems to occur to them that others have different preferences and they could use headphones to blast their noise into only their own ears -
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Old 07-06-2022, 12:13 PM   #62
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The light from the reflection from the ground for your neighbors is far more power full than the light of the milky way and many other celestial items of interest. Apparently you've never tried star gazing because if you had you realize how a set of these light has a sever impact on the visibility of the night sky for your neighbors.
I'm far more interested in what's happening 3 feet from me. Not to interested or concerned with whats 3 billion light years from me.
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Old 07-06-2022, 12:21 PM   #63
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Yup and starlight is SO dim, because it's tired when it gets here.
Give it a break.

Mike in Colorado
Where we are 1.5 miles closer to the sun than most folks.
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Old 07-06-2022, 12:28 PM   #64
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Play nice in the sand box. Several posts have been removed for being rude and argumentative. The number one Community Rule is be courteous.

Thank you to all posting within the rules.
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Old 07-06-2022, 12:34 PM   #65
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You guys ever read something in threads like this and think to yourself: "Boy I'm glad that guy isn't MY neighbor!"
Yes, but I won't point out which one in this thread.
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Old 07-06-2022, 03:41 PM   #66
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No need.
Worth thinking about that I've known many folks that I like and get along with just fine but don't want to live next to. Same with some family members we love well enough that are welcome anytime, as long as they aren't moving in.
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Old 07-06-2022, 05:04 PM   #67
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Oh, ok, I'll bite.

First, a couple things....

First, any light contributes to light pollution, it doesn't have to shine upward to pollute. Think of it as noise. There's loud and blaring noise, and there's soft low volume noise. All break the stillness of the night. It's all a matter of degree. Bright white awning lights, flood lights, etc are like the sub-woofer thumpin' car, or guy with his windows down and stereo blasting at stoplight, or someone with big speakers blasting country western at the backyard BBQ. A dim light pointed at the ground still adds light to the darkness. It may not travel far, but the more people who use them, the more it adds up. It's like the cricket in the bush. One isn't loud, but add a bunch together....

The obvious: Which kind of light is better? Well, for specific tasks, a lot of light is very helpful. I doubt you'd find your heart surgeon using a soft underglow light in the operating room. I look at light as a tool, use it when needed, and put it away when not. Also, like noise, I do keep my neighbors in mind. They may have curtains, but I still think it's rude of me to leave a bright light on all night long that lights up their RV or campsite. Again, I think of light like noise. I may like sleeping with a radio on, but would never keep it up loud all night and expect my neighbor to wear earplugs because my noise is THEIR problem - so deal with it.

I will say, as a guy who's traveling with telescopes and likes to stargaze, I'll take indirect soft, low lumen lighting over bright glaring lights I can see a 1000 feet away. To those who say they turn out their lights at a certain time or prefer soft lighting over bright - thank you. I've been in too many campgrounds that resemble the neighborhood I left behind. Good lighting puts light only where needed, and only at the level required by the task.

Rodent fact: Yes, many rodents are nocturnal, but it's also a fact that they adapt to their environment, and rather quickly too. They are not static in their behavior. Thinking that they are is a very common mistake. Rodents invade, nest, and do damage in all kinds of brightly lit and noisy places. Industrial sites have rodent problems too. Also, remember that while a campground is a transient place for you, it isn't for the resident rodent. They live there full time so you showing up with your lights is nothing new. It's just another opportunity for survival. Once they determine there's no new danger, it's business as usual for foraging and nest building. That's why light, smells and noises aren't an effective deterrent. It doesn't take long before those irritants fade into the background. Where they might have some effect, is with low populations and areas where there's a lot of alternative places to forage and hide. Even still rodents will explore, and if your RV is easy to get into, presents excellent shelter, food and or/water. It's a score. I've told the story before if sitting in a char in my campsite, and watching the chipmunks case the "neighborhood." They'd go from site to site, stopping at all the usual entry point - power cords, sewer hoses, moving along under the RV stopping to look up for a place to enter. And those truck and RVs parked with their hoods up because that deters them from hiding under the hood? I could see dark outlines of chipmunks darting around the engine compartments or sitting on the air cleaner contently hanging out. Wild creatures perfectly adapted to their unnatural environment.

One thing people do all the time is connect two dots what may not be related. Correlation does not equal causation. Rver A may say they've done X and never had a rodent problem, and by doing so connects X with a particular outcome. It could be their particular RV was properly sealed at the factory, or the area has low pest pressure, and X had nothing to do with the lack of problems.

I've actually seen some good info in this thread. I will contradict one comment and that's about using bait. Yes, it does attract, because it is designed to, but yes, it is used to lower local populations. That's why bait is SOP in pest control for rodents, although not as a stand alone treatment. Because it attracts, it's best used outside. Feed them before they enter. It's also why stickyboards are preferred over baited traps for interior monitoring.

Back to underlights. Ive considered them too. Just can't convince myself I need them. Despite being the guy who wants to stargaze in total darkness (save my trusty dim red light for reading charts) I DO like cool lights. I upgraded my old single porchlight to a 12' LED strip light - one that is dimmable and can be set to various colors, including red for preserving night vision as I set-up my equipment. Same with my step lights. They either glow blue, or for stargazing nights, red. All go off when the need is done. If I need to go outside for any reason later, that's what the switch is for. On for the task, and back off when the task is done.

Wow, this was almost the perfect thread for a retired pest control guy who is also an amateur astronomer and full time RVer. Sometimes all the cosmic tumblers line up for a jackpot.
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Old 07-06-2022, 10:07 PM   #68
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Am I the only one that has arrived after dark to a dark campsite and needed illumination to park my bus? My Winnie had programmable Bluetooth controlled standard from the factory. I can change colors, vary brightness, select flashing patterns, even sync the pattern to music! But, I find the lights extremely useful for illumination when backing into a dark spot, or when I step out to allow the dog to potty. I have also selected odd colors to help me find my way home a few times.
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Old 07-12-2022, 06:43 PM   #69
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No need.
Worth thinking about that I've known many folks that I like and get along with just fine but don't want to live next to. Same with some family members we love well enough that are welcome anytime, as long as they aren't moving in.
I like that perspective. My generic family rule is all family should live a minimum of 60 minutes or 60 miles apart. Just far enough but still an easy visit away, close enough no need to spend the night. -RT
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