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01-03-2017, 03:08 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Desert Hot Springs Ca.
Posts: 947
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Used 350 HP vs 400 HP DP
I'm looking to move from 5th wheel to DP. My price range is in the $60-80k range. Most DP in that price range are 02-05's which I'm fine with. Most not all that I've found are 350 HP and that's where my problem occurs.
I've been RVing for 30+ years and going up grades at 40 mph just isn't for me.  My F-350 is rated at 400 HP with 800 ft. of torque. I'm at 23,5k total weight. My concern is will I be happy with a 350 HP DP out here in the desert SW where we have REAL grades & Heat.
So I'm looking for feed back from folks with 350-400 hp DP that have pulled grades out here when it's 110+. Have gone over Wolf Creek Pass or any others in the Rockies. 
Oh also looking at side radiator DP only.
__________________
Mike & Trish Romans 10:9
2011 Mobile Suites 36RSSB3
2014 F-350 6.7L CC DRW
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01-03-2017, 03:12 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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Had a '02 DSDP 350 ISC, put a Banks kit on it for 435HP/1200 ft lbs. Really woke it up but still had to run 40 - 45 depending on ability to hold my momentum.
I still think an ISL of the same HP and torque rating would do slightly better.
Present rig with 650 hp and 1950 ft lbs does very well!
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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01-03-2017, 03:49 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK46
I'm looking to move from 5th wheel to DP. My price range is in the $60-80k range. Most DP in that price range are 02-05's which I'm fine with. Most not all that I've found are 350 HP and that's where my problem occurs.
I've been RVing for 30+ years and going up grades at 40 mph just isn't for me.  My F-350 is rated at 400 HP with 800 ft. of torque. I'm at 23,5k total weight. My concern is will I be happy with a 350 HP DP out here in the desert SW where we have REAL grades & Heat.
So I'm looking for feed back from folks with 350-400 hp DP that have pulled grades out here when it's 110+. Have gone over Wolf Creek Pass or any others in the Rockies. 
Oh also looking at side radiator DP only. 
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Judging by your post you will not enjoy the 350 HP unit. Look for north of 500 for 40 ft or longer.
__________________
Jerry, "EWC (SW)" USN Retired
2003 Beaver Patriot Thunder 505 HP C-12 1550 TQ
Allison 4000MH Ram 4X4 towed
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01-03-2017, 03:57 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Desert Hot Springs Ca.
Posts: 947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D
Had a '02 DSDP 350 ISC, put a Banks kit on it for 435HP/1200 ft lbs. Really woke it up but still had to run 40 - 45 depending on ability to hold my momentum.
I still think an ISL of the same HP and torque rating would do slightly better.
Present rig with 650 hp and 1950 ft lbs does very well!
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Not looking to have to put $ into it to pull well. Been there done that with TV in the past.
I did help a friend by finding him a 400 hp 05 Revolution. He had a 460 gass Bounder & I always had to slow down on grades when we RVed together.
Went out together a few weeks ago and pulled the Indio grade headed east on I-10. We both pulled it at 60 mph me in forth & him in fifth. So I know 400 hp will do what I want. My F-350 10mpg his Cat 6.5-7 mpg  Hopping a cummins will do better than a cat mpg wise.
__________________
Mike & Trish Romans 10:9
2011 Mobile Suites 36RSSB3
2014 F-350 6.7L CC DRW
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01-03-2017, 04:05 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK46
Not looking to have to put $ into it to pull well. Been there done that with TV in the past.
I did help a friend by finding him a 400 hp 05 Revolution. He had a 460 gass Bounder & I always had to slow down on grades when we RVed together.
Went out together a few weeks ago and pulled the Indio grade headed east on I-10. We both pulled it at 60 mph me in forth & him in fifth. So I know 400 hp will do what I want. My F-350 10mpg his Cat 6.5-7 mpg  Hopping a cummins will do better than a cat mpg wise.
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It seems almost everyone I talk to gets 7-8MPG. Some get 14 with 45 ft DPs. Anyway 7-8 seems to be the norm.
__________________
Jerry, "EWC (SW)" USN Retired
2003 Beaver Patriot Thunder 505 HP C-12 1550 TQ
Allison 4000MH Ram 4X4 towed
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01-03-2017, 04:06 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK46
Went out together a few weeks ago and pulled the Indio grade headed east on I-10. We both pulled it at 60 mph me in forth & him in fifth. So I know 400 hp will do what I want. My F-350 10mpg his Cat 6.5-7 mpg  Hopping a cummins will do better than a cat mpg wise.
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Nope, our ISC in the Dutch Star did between 7 and 8 mpg. The present ISX does 7.6 mph over 46,000 miles according to the VMS. I do see up to 16 rolling MPG, but that's only on the flats under light throttle. Hit a hill and I see 3 mpg on the VMS. But the overall average is 7.6 mpg.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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01-03-2017, 04:12 PM
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#7
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Senior Member/RVM #90
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbus, MS
Posts: 56,003
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Mike, in 2012 I was in exactly your situation! We had pulled a 36' 5er for the last 11 years, but after retiring wanted to go to a MH. I figured that to have the same amount of room in a MH we would need a 40'. We also wanted to keep the cost at around $75k.
I lucked into the 2002 Monaco Windsor 40PBT. It had exactly the floor plan that we wanted with recliners on one side and couch on the opposite side, full-body paint that still looked great, Cummins ISC350 engine known for it's reliability, Roadmaster chassis with 8 air bags, PacBrake exhaust brake, three slides, separate "throne" room with vanity, vented washer/dryer, side radiator and exhaust, air leveling (no hydraulic jacks), heat pumps, refrigerator NOT in a slideout, nice cabinets, in-motion satellite dish, and the list goes on and on! It had 84,000 miles on it, which is nothing for a diesel engine that commonly goes 500K or more before major problems.
As for the power, you're not gonna fly up those steep Rocky Mountain grades, more likely 35-40 MPH, but we're not in any hurry!
I bought it at that time for $71,000, and spent another $15,000 making changes and improvements for safety and convenience.
It had the old tube-type TV's, the main one hanging down above the dash. I removed it, had a cabinet shop rebuild the cabinet so it would be level across the bottom, and installed a 40" Samsung LED TV on a remote-controlled motorized lift behind the couch. I removed the small TV in the bedroom and had the cabinet guy make a door so we could use that for a storage cabinet.
I updated the surround sound system with new receiver, BluRay DVD player, and powered subwoofer.
I bought a loveseat with powered rocker/recliners to replace the original chairs.
I installed the SteerSafe steering stabilizers on the front for added control in case of a front tire blowout. We didn't need them for any steering problems, as the Windsor was very stable on the road.
I removed the Norcold 1200LRIM fridge cooling unit and replaced it with the Amish-built Dutch Aire cooling unit from David Force at RV Cooling Unit warehouse in Memphis. The Norcold was still working OK, but I wanted to eliminate the danger of a fire!
We are totally happy with the Windsor. There's not many brand new MH's out there that I would trade for, even money! You can probably find a MH like this out there now in the $60-70K range.
Good luck, happy trails, and God bless! 
HAPPY NEW YEAR! 
__________________
Joe & Annette
Sometimes I sits and thinks, sometimes I just sits.....
2002 Monaco Windsor 40PBT, 2013 Honda CRV AWD
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01-03-2017, 04:18 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 754
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We have a 2014 Newmar Ventana 40' DP. We have travelled many grades thru the Rockies, including Siskyou, I 70, I 40, I 10' & Wolf Creek. We have a Cummins ISL. 400 HP, towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee.
Assuming you can maintain momentum, we can keep speed between 45 and 50 on long, steep grades, with no overheating issues. We did Wolf Creek last summer with temps around 95. She did start to run hot until I shifted down a gear which helped a bunch. Mpg running between 7 and 8.
__________________
2014 Newmar Ventana 4037 / 4018
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Ltd.
1940 Chevrolet Pickup
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01-03-2017, 04:52 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Over the next hill, around the next curve...
Posts: 5,703
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It's all about the math of Power to Weight Ratio on the uphill climbs. In the right length/weight coach, 350HP will be plenty of power. Or, it could be the dawg of the hill climb  !
So when researching, dig up the rated weight of a specific coach. Then compare HP/Torque ratio to weight.
Another, to me more important then hill climbing, question - is the ability to stop an RV on the way down a grade. For this, I recommend disc brakes. Or if an older model to fit budget with drum brakes, it would have to have a Jake Compression.
So this basically means ISL (And be careful on this, as many ISL's have Exhaust Brakes, vs 2 Stage Compression. But I'd agree with an earlier poster. Usually when you get to the older higher HP (Say 450 and up.) coaches, you will be in a BIG BLOCK CAT or DETROIT or Cummins M11/ISM/ISX. This gives you displacement, which then gives you both easier HP and higher Torque, as well as substantially higher Braking HP too. Some will have a 3 Stage Compression, and a few (IE Foretravel, will have a Retarder Transmission.
I feel the ISM's of pre heavy smog changes, the CAT C12, and the Detroit engines, would be the coaches to narrow your search for. These usually also came in higher quality coaches, with more sophisticated transmissions.
IMO, and that is a I can share with you - my opinion. Pick your budget range, drop years to remain within budget, and buy the highest quality coach you can find. A quality high end coach, makes a great foundation to remodel off of to make it your coach.
Opinions will vary... Maybe share the length range coach you're considering, and others can share some makes/models/years to consider  !
Best of luck to you,
Smitty
__________________
Pausing 4 Family Opportunities - We'll be back!
04 Country Coach Allure followed by 07 Magna
OnDRoad for The JRNY! Enjoy life...
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01-03-2017, 04:57 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 11,009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK46
I'm looking to move from 5th wheel to DP. My price range is in the $60-80k range. Most DP in that price range are 02-05's which I'm fine with. Most not all that I've found are 350 HP and that's where my problem occurs.
I've been RVing for 30+ years and going up grades at 40 mph just isn't for me.  My F-350 is rated at 400 HP with 800 ft. of torque. I'm at 23,5k total weight. My concern is will I be happy with a 350 HP DP out here in the desert SW where we have REAL grades & Heat.
So I'm looking for feed back from folks with 350-400 hp DP that have pulled grades out here when it's 110+. Have gone over Wolf Creek Pass or any others in the Rockies. 
Oh also looking at side radiator DP only. 
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One great thing going with the ISL is the compression engine brake vs the exhaust brake.............some ISL's come with the exhaust brake, but not many from what I have read. Something to ponder.....
__________________
2012 Essex 4544 2011 Jeep JK, M&G Braking, 2014 MTI 27' Hog Hauler, Wireless brake control, 2006 Ultra & 1989 Springer, 2003 Harley-Davidson
FLHR Road King Anniversary
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01-03-2017, 08:09 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemert
It seems almost everyone I talk to gets 7-8MPG. Some get 14 with 45 ft DPs. Anyway 7-8 seems to be the norm.
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Yep I got between 7 to 8 on the ISC 350, and I get the same on the ISL. the ISL is definitely better pulling the grades in our 40 ft. fourth and fifth gear seems to be the ticket on the tougher grades, you need to make sure you maintain your momentum! We spend most of our time going up and down the sierras. Regards
__________________
2009 Monaco Camelot 425 HP Cummins ISL 40QDP
Toad- 2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon
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01-04-2017, 09:39 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 916
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Our weight including towed is around 42K when fully loaded. GVWR is 52K. We have no problem climbing mountains out west. We sometimes slow a little but end up passing all the trucks and smaller RVs. Going down is a non issue with the 2 stage Jake Brake. I hardly use brakes and sometimes have to accelerate a little. I am not a speed demon, usually cruise at 62-65 but would not like to have trouble on the up-side. The CAT C-12 in our Beaver has performed very well! MPG avg. went down from 7.2 to 7.1 while out west last summer. That is reading from the computer. Actual millage is probably about 6 because of generator and Hydro Hot use.
__________________
Jerry, "EWC (SW)" USN Retired
2003 Beaver Patriot Thunder 505 HP C-12 1550 TQ
Allison 4000MH Ram 4X4 towed
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01-04-2017, 10:45 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Desert Hot Springs Ca.
Posts: 947
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Found a 04 Tiffin double slide ISL 400 hp, 05 American Coach C9 Cat 400 HP double slide both are in the 77,000 mile range. 04 asking $74,900, 05 $79,900. Also a 03 Monaco Windsor ISL 370 HP triple slide 1 1/2 bath also asking $79,900. All three of these are at the same dealership. After having triple slide 5th wheels I'm not sure about going back to a double slide RV.
__________________
Mike & Trish Romans 10:9
2011 Mobile Suites 36RSSB3
2014 F-350 6.7L CC DRW
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01-04-2017, 10:51 AM
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#14
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Senior Member/RVM #90
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbus, MS
Posts: 56,003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK46
Found a 04 Tiffin double slide ISL 400 hp, 05 American Coach C9 Cat 400 HP double slide both are in the 77,000 mile range. 04 asking $74,900, 05 $79,900. Also a 03 Monaco Windsor ISL 370 HP triple slide 1 1/2 bath also asking $79,900. All three of these are at the same dealership. After having triple slide 5th wheels I'm not sure about going back to a double slide RV.
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I would look hard at the Monaco Windsor! 
__________________
Joe & Annette
Sometimes I sits and thinks, sometimes I just sits.....
2002 Monaco Windsor 40PBT, 2013 Honda CRV AWD
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