Uvw / ccc weights

[Lonnie & Bona]

UVW / CCC WEIGHTS

To all........

My wife and I recently retired, have sold our home, and anticipate traveling much of North America during our retirement years. I am presently at a standstill in our search for an early 2000's, 36 to 40 foot diesel pusher. Our concern is how to qualify the diesel pushers that are currently on the market relative to their payload capacity. This purchase will become our full time home and staying under the GVWR is of vital importance to us. We realize we will need to downsize to stay within the limited capacity but would like to have as much payload as possible within the givwn size range with a single rear axle. The question is how much payload capacity does each model have?

At this time, I am having great difficulties in searching archives of brochures that provides the UVW or CCC of different models as a process of elimination of rv's that processes payload capacity that does not meet our needs. So far, in my research, only Newmar and American Coach provides this information concerning UVW in their past brochures. UVW or CCC normally is not provided in the brochures. As most of you know, the GVWR and the rated weight for the front & rear axle is normally provided in their publictions.

Given that we are open to possible rv's nation wide, how do we eliminate rv's we are not interested in due to their minimal payloads capacity prior to making cross countries trips to view a potential purchase? I have found most sellers are not aware of their UVW or CCC. Once the owner have their rv loaded, they tend to just weigh their vehicle to assure it is under the given GVWR. Do I need to contact each seller to find out the rv's UAW / CCC prior to going into further inquiry concerning their rv? I am hesitate in relying on the seller information if he can not provide a photo showing proof of this information coming from a sticker attached to the rv. Should I discontinue any further discussions with a seller if he can not provide me with documented proof of the rv's UAW or CCC? We do not want to get caught buying something that does not meet our needs.

Any feed back concerning this would be greatly appreciated on the best method for us in finding the UVW / CCC to different models in eliminating rv's which do not meet our needs.

Still hunting & looking.

Lonnie & Bona

[Mich F]

I agree that it can be a challenge finding the CCC/OCCC of a vehicle. Most manufacturers don't publish those numbers One reason is that even the same models will have different weights due to different options. Another reason could be that they're putting too much stuff on a chassis that has a marginal GVWR for what it's carrying. I don't know of any source where you can find OCCC ratings. Looking at various internet sites might yield some results, but might not be accurate.

Another number to consider if you plan to do any towing is the GCWR. That number is usually easier to find than the OCCC. I see that a new Thor Palazzo 37.6 diesel pusher has a GVWR of 32,000# (I don't see the OCCC anywhere on their site). It comes with a 10,000# capacity hitch. Unfortunately the GCWR is only 33,000# , which gives a ridiculously low towing capacity of 1,000#, if you had that MH loaded to the GVWR. I wonder how many Palazzo owners think they can tow 10,000#?

[Mudfrog]

This is one of those things that's always bugged me. I realize, because of the variety of different options, that the same model will have different UVWs. Still, it shouldn't be difficult at all for a manufacturer to give some ballpark information. It could be an average or possibly low and high numbers, with an added disclaimer to refer to a specific unit's weight sticker for the actual numbers.

My opinion is that manufacturers would rather not do it because some of their models are built and have an unloaded weight that's already too close to the chassis' GVWR..

I mentioned this a while back. I think it would be great to have stickies on irV2, at the top of the various RV type forums that people could reply to with information on this. Maybe post the year and model along with an image of the sticker showing just the weight numbers. This could certainly help potential buyers to get a "feel" for some of the models they were interested in.

[twojayhawks]

Welcome Lonnie & Bona! You are correct it is vital to know a coach weights BEFORE purchasing. Many don't only to find out they have very little left to carry their gear. I truly respect the mfg's that list UVW in spec sheets even if it is just an attempt based on a variety of added options. Yes you should ask owner of coach you might be looking at for whatever info they have. I'm sure you know this but one way to insure PLENTY of CCC is to choose a 40' built on a tag chassis.

[77Travco]

You are way over thinking this. Just find a floor plan that you like and then work it out from there.
Me and my wife each have a personal storage tote that goes in the basement. ALL of our individual belongings go in our individual tote. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't go. Other things like coffee maker, etc are considered part of coach. Easy peasy.

[computerguy]

P sure why you are putting the cart before the horse. You don’t mention how much ccc you need so how can you search for something that will meet your needs?
As others have said search for a floor plan you like first. See if it is in the ballpark of what you need. In other words you know about ccc so don’t choose one of the few models that have low ccc.
Also, you really cannot use manufacturer weights as so many people change things after they own it and those weights are no longer valid.

[Skip426]

Welcome to iRV2 .

Newmar , weighs there units at the end of the assembly line , so all FACTORY installed items are included in the individual coach CCC .
The base CCC , prior to factory options for my particular coach was 5,000# , as it weighed at the end of the line showed options had reduced CCC by over 1,500# . I even have a pdf showing every option and it's weight .
My loading for 5 months of snowbirding adds 2,500# to the coach .

As others have mentioned , find a coach with the floor plan you like, then get the CCC from the unit's weight sticker .

Note that GCWR can be a result of the transmission the coach has, so those options have to be considered too.

[VanK]

I agree with the above reply, it's the floorplan that counts. My 2008 36' Bounder seems to have more storage space and CCC than my 2010 40' Newmar. I also prefer the Bounder's Freightline chassis over the Spartan chassis on my my current Newmar coach. I recommend that you do not rely on the sticker but get it weighed before you buy it. Lastly, good luck driving full time.

[bentjm]

My 2005 Newmar Mountain Aire 4032 - 40 ft with single rear axle will carry 20,000 lb on the back axle and 14,200 on the front.

Fully loaded with fuel, water, and all our stuff, I am right at 20,000 on the rear and 13,000 on the front.

My point is - unless you are carrying lead bricks, you can make it work.

[saddlesore]

Take a good long look at the offerings available with either the Newell or Foretravel coaches.. Look at the '99 to '05/07 Year models.....specifically the 38' to 42' tag axle models.. Your GCVR will be well into the upper 40k to mid 50k Combined weight range, And will have a minimum of 10k hitch ratings. and engines in the 450 to 550hp range.
Also sent a pm with my thoughts about Your 1st DP RV.

[Lonnie & Bona]

We appreciate all your replies..........

To go into further detail, we are flexible on the floor plan. This is not a big issue for us for those who answered that floor plan should be our primary concern. We have lived on a sailboat for 12 years in the Pacific and understand a method of transportation is not necessarily your normal stick and stone home when it comes to living conditions and lifestyle. Our main concern is not having access to the NCC on different models to determine the payload capacity. On our boat, weight was not an issue, which approach 5,000 pounds for its payload. Also, to answer one response, we are not looking to tow anything vehicle at this time, although that may be an option we would consider in the future.

Doing our research, we have found many of the diesel pushers appear to have minimal payload capacity. Counting fuel, water, propane, passengers, tools, and other personal possessions we estimate our payload being near 5,000 pounds as was on our boat. I believe this exceeds, or is on the borderline, of many rv's concerning GVWR. This is of upmost important to us since we will be living and traveling in our rv full time.

I don't feel 5,000 pound is a unreasonable expectation for payload. Newmar and American Coach provides the NCC (Newmar) and “base weight” (American Coach) which can be used to calculate the expected payload capacity for their different models. Both Newmar and American Coach models that I check on exceeds our 5,000 pounds needed for our payload. Newmar Dutch Star / Mountain Aire and American Coach Tradition would be in our budget range.

I agree with the one comment that Newmar and American Coach probably provide these numbers as marketing tools in promoting their models while other manufacture are hesitate to provide the NCC if their payload capacity on their models are marginal.

I agree with the one response that it would be nice if the owners who knew their NCC could volunteer their NCC numbers for different models they own on IRV2 for the benefit of future buyers. It seems to me the payload capacity is rather important unless you are using your rv for just weekly / monthly vacations. I think full timing, using an rv as your home, is a totally different ball game than being on “vacation.” The same as living on your boat for 12 years, versus taking your boat out for the weekend. No comparison in my mind.

Once again, same question, how do we determine a rv has a payload capacity of 5,000 pounds if the NCC is not provided by the manufacturer and the typically seller has no idea of how to find it for their particular rv they are trying to sell? We hate to limit my search to just Newmar and American Coach models when we know there are other nice models available. In addition, due to our budget, a tandem is most likely beyond our budget.

Further thoughts on this would be appreciated. It may help others from making a mistake on buying an rv with limited hauling capabilities.

We appreciate all your responses,

Lonnie & Bona

[bentjm]

Every motorhome should have a "Motorhome Weight Information" sticker in it somewhere.

Mine is on the inside of a kitchen cabinet.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by 77Travco

You are way over thinking this. Just find a floor plan that you like and then work it out from there.

I agree that's the starting point but it's not quite that simple for someone going fulltime. I think they're doing exactly what they need to, working to not have a bad surprise.

Since my familiarity is gassers I'll give a perfect example:

The top-of-the-line Forest River Georgetown model is their GT7. The first two models were built on the 24,000 GVWR/30,000 GCWR chassis.

Then, to offer a shorter version, they built a new GT7 model 32J7 and they put it on the 22,000 GVWR/26,000 GCWR chassis but still built the motorhome to the GT7 standards.

Multiple people bought them for fulltime use, got weighed, and were shocked to find they were way over GVWR. One person found they were 900 lbs over GVWR which also put them over GAWR on each axle. That person had to inflate the tires to 110 PSI, their maximum cold pressure, just to support the actual as-weighed GAWR because the 22K chassis also comes with smaller tires.

One person who crabbed loudly online had an FR rep tell them that the usual OCCC for their shorter model was between 1,800 lbs and 2,100 lbs. We have the identical chassis but a different model and our OCCC is 2,838 with some heavy factory-installed options such as dual pane windows, a combo washer/dryer, and a steel sliding tray. Usually the OCCC for our model is 3,200 lbs+

For a DP, just look at all of the people who found they had an Allison 2500 transmission that was limited to 5,000 lbs of towing when they were thinking all DP's had 10,000 lbs of towing capacity. Same issue, a really bad surprise for some people.

Ray

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Originally Posted by bentjm

Every motorhome should have a "Motorhome Weight Information" sticker in it somewhere.

Mine is on the inside of a kitchen cabinet.

This is my understanding and experience, as well. A copy of the label from my (now sold) coach is below, as an example.

Clearly, not as helpful when you've cast a wide net, but if you are looking at a particular coach, it will provide the numbers sought... but remember, the weights are for the coach as it left the factory. Current weight for an older RV is likely higher than the label lists.

The RV Safety and Education Foundation (RVSEF) maintains a glossary of RV weight terms, here. I had the RVSEF weigh my coach a year after I bought it, in loaded condition. It "passed," with wheel, axle and gross vehicle weights under the ratings.