Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Class A Motorhome Discussions
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-23-2016, 04:52 PM   #29
Community Administrator
 
Scarab0088's Avatar


 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lone Star State
Posts: 19,204
Quote:
Originally Posted by becks View Post
Are you looking at going new or used?
Found this post here:
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f258/smal...ns-312729.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryJB View Post
Hmm, SWMBO is not sold on the idea of used. I think she would rather have something new for twice the price even if the used one is twice as good.

Next question is how do I convince her used is better in this case?

Are there any good resources explaining why used can be a better choice?
So...seems there's an open mind.
I'd look at gently used...most of the "new RV bugs" are worked out and depreciation has been paid. And older Diesel RV's do not have that now required DEF/DPF system.
Of course, there are such GREAT improvements in electronics now and there in NOTHING like that feeling of having a new RV.

Best luck to the OP
__________________
Kim and Steve, Mustang LCDR (USCG Ret), Outlaw #1193
https://www.irv2.com/attachments/signaturepics/sigpic84535_7.gif
WE LOVE OUR OUTLAW RV
Scarab0088 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-23-2016, 05:03 PM   #30
Junior Member
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 29
I have a 2002 Newmar Mountain Aire DP that has been lived in full time for 14 years. It blows my mind just how well engineered everything in it is. The washer/dryer has been used nearly every day and has never failed. Same with the convection microwave, the Aquahot, the Girard awning, even the toilet with its electronic flush mechanism. A once yearly PM of everything has resulted in a trouble free coach.
Jtcochran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2016, 05:12 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
Mr_D's Avatar
 
Country Coach Owners Club
Solo Rvers Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarab0088 View Post

This is clearly a bonded skin that could delaminate if water entered at any window, door, or vent. Wonder how the fiberglass and ply are joined...maybe a pinch roll or vacuum bonding(?). And, like said in the video, this is the standard from the Bay Star to the Essex.
How about the London Aire and King Aire?

We've had two Dutch Stars, both were quality rigs at the price point. Now I've moved way up to a Country Coach Magna.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA, SKP
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '14 Jeep JKU Dragon Edition
Mr_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2016, 05:34 PM   #32
Senior Member
 
vito.a's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4,967
It will take a great deal of understanding, time and energy to discover the advantages of used over new.

The first thing you need to understand is that whether you spend $750K or $150k on a new class A, it will have literally dozens of items that need attention. And even then it will take several trips back to the dealer to get these repaired. Rarely are things fixed the first time. If you buy used from a conscientious owner they will have resolved these issues already.

No matter what motorhome you purchase, there will be dozens of other items that will need to be updated, upgraded or just changed to keep it viable (RV propane refrigerators are a good example). A good previous owner will have addressed these. There will still be additional items you will want to address to make it suit you and your usage.

The entire RV industry was turned upside down through the 2007-2009 time frame. Many manufacturers and suppliers have still not recovered. Some of us that have been motorhome owners for a long time believe most RV manufacturing peaked during this period and many have gone downhill since.

RV depreciation is absurd! You can literally get 5 times the coach for your money buying used. Like I said earlier, it will take time and effort to achieve this.

I disagree with only looking at floorplans. The chassis and drive train are the heart and foundation of the motorhome and must be properly engineered. Many are not. Rear radiators and overloaded axles are prime examples.

Get your wife involved. Make a list of "must haves" and "nice to haves" and start looking at both new and used. Look beyond the glitz and try to picture what the shiny new interior/exterior will look like in 5 years. Be ready to travel (prices can vary by $100k on the same make/year/model). Give yourself enough time (at least a year).

Hope this helps. Best of luck!
vito.a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2016, 05:48 PM   #33
Community Administrator
 
Scarab0088's Avatar


 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lone Star State
Posts: 19,204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D View Post
How about the London Aire and King Aire?

We've had two Dutch Stars, both were quality rigs at the price point. Now I've moved way up to a Country Coach Magna.
I dunno...thought the Essex was to top of the line(s)...
In customer service material, they say all models share the same wall tech.

But what I do know, having been a boat owner for years...the exterior skin of any fiberglass media is:
GelCoat layer over Resin/Glass layer...then a substrate (wood or poly honeycomb) for strength/weight savings.

Without a substrate, the fiberglass layer must be thicker to equal the same strength. This extra weight is no problem for a boat (and makes the boat ride better in high sea state). This extra weight (mostly the heavy resin) is not so great in an RV.

As I have always said, hung wall is GREAT. Used by Newmar, Entegra, Showhauler and others too.
We have walls and roof made with the vacuum/pressure/heat process. It is amazingly quiet and very well insulated. Vacuum bonding from the '80s WOULD fail , but newer adhesives (especially if the bond is flashed to cure) have a much lower risk of delam...and there are NO voids that could accumulate moisture.

Safe travels
__________________
Kim and Steve, Mustang LCDR (USCG Ret), Outlaw #1193
https://www.irv2.com/attachments/signaturepics/sigpic84535_7.gif
WE LOVE OUR OUTLAW RV
Scarab0088 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2016, 06:27 PM   #34
Senior Member
 
LarryJB's Avatar




 
Tiffin Owners Club
RV Trip Wizard
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Mountainburg, AR
Posts: 1,426
Update: At this point we have pretty much decided on a new Winnebago Vista 29VE. The Thor Axis just had too many quality issues for me, I don't think I would ever be happy with it, just waiting for the shoe to drop.
Someone mentioned that they see a X5 price drop on used. In checking on RVTrader I just have not seen that. Look for a 2014 or 2015 model and used price is maybe $10,000 less than the new price on a 80-90 grand MH. So what I could get new for 85,000 would sell for 75,000 as a 2 year old rig. What am I missing? Everyone says this, but my searching says different. Is the actual selling price that much different than the asking price on a used unit?
__________________
There are 10 types of people... Those that understand binary and those that don't.
_________________________
2018 Tiffin Phaeton 40AH/2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport Toad
LarryJB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2016, 06:43 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 8,055
Pricing is a funny duck. There is the asking price and the real selling price with somewhere around 20% seeming room to play. After all, no one complains about getting more off the asking price. ;-) You pick what you think it is worth and make an offer. Just don't be insulting and be willing to take no for an answer.
nothermark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 09:46 AM   #36
JCM
Senior Member
 
JCM's Avatar
 
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Triple E Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Williams Lake,BC Canada
Posts: 1,203
I am sorry but I had a friend that traded in his Mountain Air for a travel supreme but after it was in the shop (new unit) for over 6 months, he wished he had back his Mountain Air. Also, are they not out of business?
__________________
2020 Triple E Wonder RTB
JCM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 09:55 AM   #37
Community Administrator
 
Scarab0088's Avatar


 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lone Star State
Posts: 19,204
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCM View Post
I am sorry but I had a friend that traded in his Mountain Air for a travel supreme but after it was in the shop (new unit) for over 6 months, he wished he had back his Mountain Air. Also, are they not out of business?
Why sorry?

Anyway, Travel Supreme assets (not the name) were acquired by Jayco and was used as the basis to create Entegra Coach in 2008.
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f116/jayc...eme-46865.html

And, just recenty Thor Industries (not Thor Motor Coach) acquired Jayco with Entegra Coach...but unlike the 2008 acquision, Thor's Decentralized Management Model leaves successful operations to run autonomously...like Airstream, Dutchman, and DRV Luxury Suites. This will allow Entegra to continue as a very successful brand with the same designers, builders, dealers, and sales/service centers.
http://ir.thorindustries.com/press-r...n/default.aspx

Safe travels
__________________
Kim and Steve, Mustang LCDR (USCG Ret), Outlaw #1193
https://www.irv2.com/attachments/signaturepics/sigpic84535_7.gif
WE LOVE OUR OUTLAW RV
Scarab0088 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 10:17 AM   #38
Community Administrator
 
Scarab0088's Avatar


 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lone Star State
Posts: 19,204
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryJB View Post
Update: At this point we have pretty much decided on a new Winnebago Vista 29VE. The Thor Axis just had too many quality issues for me, I don't think I would ever be happy with it, just waiting for the shoe to drop.
Someone mentioned that they see a X5 price drop on used. In checking on RVTrader I just have not seen that. Look for a 2014 or 2015 model and used price is maybe $10,000 less than the new price on a 80-90 grand MH. So what I could get new for 85,000 would sell for 75,000 as a 2 year old rig. What am I missing? Everyone says this, but my searching says different. Is the actual selling price that much different than the asking price on a used unit?
Congrats!

The Vista 29VE is a beautiful RV...but be sure you can live with that BIG beautiful full wall side retracted for if/when you cannot open it.

BTW, the Axis/Vegas could/would never compete with a normal RV like the Vista...the Vegas/Axis is called a "Recreational Utility Vehicle" (RUV) being designed for a totally different buyer that does not need or want everything in a normal Class A (they're smaller, simpler, less options...like there's no leveling system).

About pricing 1-2 year old RV's...the seller is typically fighting the loss of depriciation. But it is a losing battle for them. If buying used, check NADA RV Guides for reasonable pricing and be a smart shopper.
http://www.nadaguides.com/RVs

Best luck
__________________
Kim and Steve, Mustang LCDR (USCG Ret), Outlaw #1193
https://www.irv2.com/attachments/signaturepics/sigpic84535_7.gif
WE LOVE OUR OUTLAW RV
Scarab0088 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 10:44 AM   #39
Registered User
 
Freightliner Owners Club
American Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Dallas, Ga.
Posts: 618
You buy what is right for you. As someone else stated, find a floor plan you like, then find the different manufactures that have that floor plan or something similar. Walk in them, look around, touch things, feel things, operate things. Lay on the bed, stand in the shower, sit on the potty. Can you do everything you need to do in those areas?
No one can tell you the perfect coach. Its a personal decision.
We knew the floor plan we liked and that they have only been using our floorp lan for a couple of years. We walked in Tiffins, Holiday Ramblers, American Coach, Monocos, Entegras, Newmars and Winnebegos. All of them very fine coaches. They all have very good fit and finish and quality. Are they all trouble free? Not a chance.
Why did we choose American Coach? Simple, it was "THE ONE" for us.
You will know "THE ONE" for you when you walk into it.
Cranemec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 05:29 PM   #40
Senior Member
 
Smitty77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Over the next hill, around the next curve...
Posts: 4,959
Quality comes in three major flavors:

1) Design. A quality coach, starts with a quality design. And that is the total coach/chassis/house systems and how they all merger together.

2) Superior materials and components. (Hardwood vs particle board is easy example of this.)

3) Attention to detail during fabrication and assembly. The term 'craftsmanship' comes to mind. Tours that I have made of some builders, showed a lack of employees that exhibited any signs of craftsman's skill sets.

Good example. Even our model coach, Country Coach Allure, is on the bottom 1/3 of the Country Coach model lineup. Attention to detail on wiring harnesses, all neatly run, and zipped, and labeled. (Labeled? Yes, and Country Coach provided extensive documentation of all systems, including electrical schematics that correlate with the numbering on the individual runs of wires.) Same thing on the plumbing systems. While working on our coach, I've been behind and into the walls of cabinets. Clean, no debris or left over trash or screws. (I won't mention the brand, but helping a friend with his coach, we found trash (Candy wrappers, parts bags, pieces of cut or knock out hunks of wood, even the ends of zip ties that had been cut. Dirty rags. Even a soft drink can. All back in between and below the cabinets. (We were running new CAT5 cable.) No pride by the workers, no supervision by the company, and wire harnesses and moving water pipes (Slide out kitchen.) not carefully or neatly attached to protect from wear.

I went on a bit here, my nature. But IMO, it is the pride of the people fabricating and assembling the coaches that can really make a difference. Higher quality coaches cost more, as you are paying for the extra fasteners, zip ties, shrouds. And more importantly, extra labor hours to take the time to 'do it right'. That costs money.

And one comment about a repeated comment in this thread. Not all chassis are the same. For example, the F53 chassis that is ordered for one manufacturer building entry level Class A's. Often have fewer components then the ones ordered for moderate to higher end Class A's with the F53. This can be sway bars being absent, or not as robust. Or other cross members and or rear pan hard controls. It's simple the Manufacturers target entry level coaches to a price point, and content wise that means less goodies all around!

In not particular order. Beaver, Alpine, Holiday Rambler, Travel Supreme, Country Coach, Monaco, Newmar, Entegra, American Coach, Bluebird/Wanderlodge, Foretravel, and others. All have models in their line up that are the B, B+ or A grade quality coaches. (Note that depending upon year of coach your looking at. Beaver, Holiday Ramblers are basically rebranded models of the Monaco line up, as they were 'assimilated' into the fold...

Happy hunting,
Smitty
__________________
07 Country Coach Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600
Roo II was our 04 Country Coach Allure 40'
OnDRoad for The JRNY! Enjoy life...
Smitty77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 08:19 PM   #41
Senior Member
 
vito.a's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4,967
Apparently, the Winnebago Vista 29VE is only manufactured for the 2017 model year.
The least expensive one advertised online at either RVT or RV Trader is $94k (one in TX and one in FL). The highest is Lazy Days at $205K. Both have 1 slide and a Ford V10. Most are priced in the $115k to $139k range.
The $85k price you quoted for a new 2017 appears exceptional.
vito.a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2016, 01:36 PM   #42
Senior Member
 
LarryJB's Avatar




 
Tiffin Owners Club
RV Trip Wizard
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Mountainburg, AR
Posts: 1,426
Quote:
Originally Posted by vito.a View Post
Apparently, the Winnebago Vista 29VE is only manufactured for the 2017 model year.
The least expensive one advertised online at either RVT or RV Trader is $94k (one in TX and one in FL). The highest is Lazy Days at $205K. Both have 1 slide and a Ford V10. Most are priced in the $115k to $139k range.
The $85k price you quoted for a new 2017 appears exceptional.
Hmm,
I believe the one I found is tagged as an Itasca Sunstar 29VE.(Same coach) I requested a quote and it came back in that range.
__________________
There are 10 types of people... Those that understand binary and those that don't.
_________________________
2018 Tiffin Phaeton 40AH/2018 Hyundai Elantra Sport Toad
LarryJB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
motorhome, quality



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Confused - Who makes quality Coaches??? BobMontgomer Class A Motorhome Discussions 37 04-23-2017 09:50 PM
Who makes quality lite 5th wheels Timon 5th Wheel Discussion 51 09-15-2016 09:24 PM
Other than luxury and quality, what makes a 5'er "full-time?" kenkap 5th Wheel Discussion 24 09-25-2015 08:01 AM
Who Makes the Best 5th Wheel, Who makes Junk? farmboy555 Toy Haulers Discussion 24 09-10-2015 07:22 PM
Who makes high quality motorhomes in the 28-30 foot range? PJinHawaii MH-General Discussions & Problems 11 03-04-2013 10:17 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.