What would you do? Newer gas or older diesel?

[robertkathy]

Originally Posted by saddlesore

larger fuel/fresh water/gray/black tank capacities
and the list goes on

thats not all true: 2005 dutch star vs. 2006 38t adventurer

fuel 100 gal vs 75 gal true
propane 32 gal vs 28 gal true
hot water heater 12 gal vs 10 gal true
fresh water 105 gal vs 108 gal false
gray water 65 gal vs 70 gal false
(washer/galley optional 10 gallon tank in 38t)
black 45 gal vs 53 gal false
inter height 6.5 ft vs 7.2 ft false
basement storage 109 cubic ft vs 109 cubic ft tie ( but 38r has 120 cubic ft)

[jacknife]

Go with the DP zero smog garbage . It will last much longer . Rear engine is much more stable better traction . It’s a no brainer . You can upgrade the interior .

[JohnBoyToo]

Someone was concerned about the electronics ?
I upgraded all my 8 yr old 40" LCD tv's with 4k smart tv's for about $1000 and a couple of afternoons

[Cat320]

Having had both, that's an easy one for me.....DP.

[saddlesore]

Originally Posted by robertkathy

thats not all true: 2005 dutch star vs. 2006 38t adventurer

fuel 100 gal vs 75 gal true
propane 32 gal vs 28 gal true
hot water heater 12 gal vs 10 gal true
fresh water 105 gal vs 108 gal false
gray water 65 gal vs 70 gal false
(washer/galley optional 10 gallon tank in 38t)
black 45 gal vs 53 gal false
inter height 6.5 ft vs 7.2 ft false
basement storage 109 cubic ft vs 109 cubic ft tie ( but 38r has 120 cubic ft)

Oh , sorry I said anything..I was thinking of the general differences on capacities.. and those measurements You quoted are quite small compared to some "other" DP manufacturers..

[geordi]

I've had both. Actually still have the older gasser (1990) and the newer (2003) DP. The 2005 gasser went away.

BOTH gassers needed engine replacements. You want to talk about higher maintenance???? Try $10,000 for an engine! The older gasser needed suspension upgrades, new generator, never has had an overdrive transmission, and has needed replacement carburetors twice now.

The newer gasser blew the head so bad at 50k miles (Workhorse chassis with Vortec engine) that it was pumping water out the tailpipe onto the ground. Needed new brake calipers and lines, and a bunch of other things.

The diesel... The ONLY upgrades that have been non-optional were to the steering system and the age of tires. But everyone needs tires so that doesn't count. The steering system is just b/c it is a Monaco and has a known design flaw.

I've put probably close to about 10k into it in interior upgrades and that steering system and tires, and I STILL HAVEN'T HIT WHAT A DEALER WOULD HAVE CHARGED ME. I bought the entire coach for likely HALF of what a dealer would have hammered me for it, and I would still have had all the upgrades to do.

"Higher maintenance" on a diesel? Nah, never met him. Even with paying truck service people on occasion to do things and doing some of the stuff myself... The gassers and the diesel have been about equal on the actual maintenance items. This nonsense that diesels cost more in maintenance is an old wives tale. Yes, there are more fluid volumes to handle. Big whoop, the work is STILL THE SAME between them. It is only the service bays that handle RVs that keep that lie alive.

Know what it takes to do a GENERATOR oil and filter change? A $6 filter and 3 quarts of oil. Why then are they charging the same (or more) at Camping World for a genset oil change, as Jiffy Lube wants to charge for an F350? Oh right: "Because it is an RV and it is SPECIAL, that's why"

It isn't. It has two engines in it, they need oil and coolant and filters. They are the same.

EVERYTHING on the inside is flexible and can be renovated, only the walls are really difficult to deal with. I've redone the floor, furniture, bedding, furnace, air conditioners, thermostat, TVs, kitchen, reefer, dishwasher, clothes washer, toilet, blinds, curtains, fixed foggy windows myself... Starting on the cabinetry next.

Only the outside body is locked in - it is really hard to fix fiberglass. But I've fixed the outside compartment latches and hinges, discovered and fixed hidden water damage under the fiberglass.... These aren't things that are special to diesels. That's something that when you know the history of the coach, that history is invaluable. EVERY SINGLE COACH will have leak issues. It is only a case of if you know about them or haven't found them yet.

Start with the much higher quality coach, get the diesel. No question, all day every day and twice on the weekends, I'd make that deal.

[AbdRahim]

Determine whether you have a diesel or gas maintenance budget. A good DP will last a lifetime. However, it is much more complex and expensive to maintain.

[geordi]

Originally Posted by AbdRahim

However, it is much more complex and expensive to maintain.

Seriously... No it isn't. Please provide examples if you are convinced of this, b/c my practical experiences have NOT proven that old chestnut accurate.

[paul65k]

Originally Posted by robertkathy

thats not all true: 2005 dutch star vs. 2006 38t adventurer

fuel 100 gal vs 75 gal true
propane 32 gal vs 28 gal true
hot water heater 12 gal vs 10 gal true
fresh water 105 gal vs 108 gal false
gray water 65 gal vs 70 gal false
(washer/galley optional 10 gallon tank in 38t)
black 45 gal vs 53 gal false
inter height 6.5 ft vs 7.2 ft false
basement storage 109 cubic ft vs 109 cubic ft tie ( but 38r has 120 cubic ft)

Can you really get by on those quantities??

Our 36 Alpine has 110 Fresh, 100 Gray, 68 Black, 42GA LP and 140 CF of storage

[djc290]

I just traded a 2016 gas junk quality ( Thor) for a 2007 Coachman Encore DP, Couldn't be happier. The quality, rice, comfort is heads above any newer gas i have seen. Expect to update the entertainment systems - but that's cheap enough to do.

[AbdRahim]

Originally Posted by geordi

Seriously... No it isn't. Please provide examples if you are convinced of this, b/c my practical experiences have NOT proven that old chestnut accurate.

You are lucky. Wait till a diesel part breaks or an aqua hot part. Oil change and yearly service for DP up to $500, gas $100. 14 -20+ qts of oil diesel, vs 7 gas. Often larger and more expensive battery system in diesel.

Air brakes and air compressor system in DP. Depending on weight and state, additional licensing.

Hope you never experience algae in the diesel fuel. Need a diesel mechanic to fix engine stuff, as opposed to a regular mechanic.

Glad you have not run into these expenses, but many have.

[Waiter21]

We faced this question a couple years ago when we were looking to upgrade. I chose a gasser.

I wrote a short article outlining our decision process and the factors that went into it. Basically we considered floor plan, quality of build, initial cost, operating cost, maintenance cost, and DIY maintenance education / experience.

Note that rideability wasn't a big factor. I knew that a DP rides like a caddy and a gasser rides like a bread truck. But I don't plan on driving it 500k miles a year, I plan on living in it 5 months out of the year. AND, There is ZERO difference in ridability when the MH is sitting in its spot with full hookups.


Gas vs Diesel – 1999 Southwind 35S


..

[geordi]

Originally Posted by AbdRahim

You are lucky. Wait till a diesel part breaks or an aqua hot part. Oil change and yearly service for DP up to $500, gas $100. 14 -20+ qts of oil diesel, vs 7 gas. Often larger and more expensive battery system in diesel.

Air brakes and air compressor system in DP. Depending on weight and state, additional licensing.

Hope you never experience algae in the diesel fuel. Need a diesel mechanic to fix engine stuff, as opposed to a regular mechanic.

Glad you have not run into these expenses, but many have.

Ok, now we are talking facts. Thank you. I actually HAVE experienced just about all of these, let me go through them

Aqua-hot - Ok, this one I haven't experienced b/c my coach lacks this system. I don't know if they just didn't have it in 2003 or just not in the Diplomats, but I DID just convert from an LP furnace to a diesel forced-air furnace, and I'm pretty happy overall. There were some growing pains with that, but it is up and running beautifully now.

Licensing... Not a maintenance issue, and generally NOT required for non-commercial use despite the weight of the vehicle. I don't know that I agree with having lots of septuagenarians driving 20 ton vehicles around with reduced reaction times... But that's not for me to decide. Moving on.

Algae in the diesel - Oh yeah, when I bought my coach I moved it to the park I was staying at in SC, and it didn't move from there for about 3 years. The fuel DEFINITELY had algae in it, and that was nasty. BUT - what is the consequence? Trashed fuel filters, and lots of them. Evacuating from hurricanes Matthew, Irma, and Michael, the RV was used as the escape vehicle. For Matthew (IIRC) that was the first one and I was chewing filters about every 300 miles or so - but it DID get better quickly during the trip. The filters are $14 each at Pilot or Loves... And when they put them and wiper blades on sale for $2, I happened to be on a trip and bought every single one I could find! So I've got a supply. No big deal.

Oil changes... Ooh, so somehow a 7 quart oil change is 1/5 the cost of a 20 quart change? A 5 gallon pail (20 quarts!) of Shell T4 diesel oil is $90. Why would anyone pay $500 unless they went to Camping World to be fleeced? The Speedco price is $200, same for Petro - and that's only if you didn't want to do it yourself. It is only more expensive because of the volume of fluid... BUT you don't need to do it at 3000 miles either. Talk to me about three of those gas changes, for the same mileage as ONE diesel change. Now the cost of oil is the same, but you've paid three times on the labor.

Battery system - Gassers have 12v batteries. So do the diesels. Mine had 2 group 65 engine batteries and 4 GC2 for the coach. I wanted more capacity and for the solar to maintain everything, so now I have EIGHT of the GC2 batteries and the engine just pulls from that array. Plenty of power, no special costs. That's all determined by how the coach is set up, has virtually nothing to do with the fuel type.

"diesel mechanic" versus gasser.... Yeah, not so much. You need a skilled tech no matter what, and diesel pushers use the same engines as big trucks, which means they are EASY to find a qualified tech just about anywhere. You gonna trust Camping World or a Chevy / Ford dealer? I wish you good luck... You're going to need it. Shop rates are about the same anyway.

Air brakes / compressor. Ok, on this one you got me, gassers don't have that. BUT I've also not had to put ONE PENNY into my air system in 8 years of ownership, other than discovering a cheap chinesium drain valve that is probably the source of my overnight leak. Once I replace those... I'll have spent money on the air, but not much. As for the rest - calipers and pads, well with the engine brake which works VERY well... I'd spend less on pads over the life of the coach, but in practice these vehicles likely won't ever get the mileage to even NEED a set of pads. Call this one a tie.

The diesel is STILL not that different from the gasser to maintain.

[Mr Lars]

Never buy/sell vehicles to/from family or friends.