What's your CHOICE??

[bamaboy473]

Both coaches are 42', have good bones, and look good. One uses DEF and the other is pre-DEF. Let's assume that all other factors are equal

Other than a price difference because of age difference, is needing DEF enough of a PITA to choose the pre-DEF one?

On the other hand, does a DEF coach offer benefits that are worth thinking about?

[Camp CA]

DEF is not an issue IMHO. I used it on a 2022 diesel motorhome and 2 Ford F350 diesel trucks.

[scubadude62]

Originally Posted by Camp CA

DEF is not an issue IMHO. I used it on a 2022 diesel motorhome and 2 Ford F350 diesel trucks.

I agree. Been in a DP since 2017, and owned Diesel pickups off and on before that. I carry a pair of 2.5 gal containers of the cheap Walmart stuff and use them when needed, then replace.

[PushedAround]

I think that it comes down to the features. Pre-DEF coaches do not have all the gadgets and controls that the newer coaches have. I felt that my 2019 was a perfect balance of age plus features plus cost. My previous coach was a pre-DEF 2010, and though nice, was stone-age compared to this coach. IMHO, don't get an early DEF coach (2010~2014). Either buy before that for the reliability or way after for the features.

[bamaboy473]

Originally Posted by PushedAround

I think that it comes down to the features. Pre-DEF coaches do not have all the gadgets and controls that the newer coaches have. I felt that my 2019 was a perfect balance of age plus features plus cost. My previous coach was a pre-DEF 2010, and though nice, was stone-age compared to this coach. IMHO, don't get an early DEF coach (2010~2014). Either buy before that for the reliability or way after for the features.

I thought that DEF was introduced in 2008, which is keeping my search to 2007 and below. Is that correct, or did it roll out make by make by year?

[PushedAround]

Depending upon manufacturer and supply of engines, there were coaches made up till 2010 with non-DEF motors. I had one, a 2010 Tiffin Allegro RED 38QBA. They are scarce, but they are out there.

[UTTransplant]

DEF was an issue the first year or so of introduction (late 2000s), and it was an issue for some chassis manufacturers - Spartan and PowerGlide particularly. Yes, Freightliner had a few issues, but nothing like the other two, as backed up by repair data. We have a 2018 Freightliner chassis Class A with 92000 miles on it. No issues. We keep the tank filled with good DEF from the truck stops (they go through tens of thousands of gallons a month - always fresh). The horror tales from a few years back were from design flaws in a DEF head manufactured by Shaw Industries and poor supply chains. These days, if your DEF head does go out, it will be overnighted to a repair shop, you get it replaced, and you are on your way. But I do agree the newer rigs have a lot more “stuff” on them. We liked that, so we bought new in 2018. I looked at a few pre-DEF rigs, and they just weren’t our style.

[bentjm]

I don't think that DEF should be anywhere on your decision tree.

Buy what floorplan fits you best.

[scubadude62]

Originally Posted by bentjm

I don't think that DEF should be anywhere on your decision tree.

Buy what floorplan fits you best.

^^^^ THIS is the definitive answer!


If you don't like the floorplan, you won't be happy in the long run.

[Gary RVRoamer]

Originally Posted by bamaboy473

I thought that DEF was introduced in 2008, which is keeping my search to 2007 and below. Is that correct, or did it roll out make by make by year?

You are conflating DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) with DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid). DPF is simply a filter that became a requirement to meet the 1/1/2007 diesel emissions target. DEF is used as part of a SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction) system in the exhaust pipe and is used in nearly all large diesel engines built after 1/1/2010.


Note that both these standards apply to the engine build date rather then the coach/chassis build date. The engines used in vehicles often precede the vehicle model year by 6-18 months, so it's common for a 2010 model year motorhome to have a 2009 engine.

[crb478]

My 2001 F250 with the 7.3 engine didn't have DEF and I put 200k miles on it with only a cam position sensor giving me a little trouble. I took it out cleaned it and it ran fine the rest of the time. I also purchased a new one for around $45.00 and kept it in the truck. Great Truck.

My 2015 F250 has de-rated my speed at least 6 times in the 82K miles that are on it. Each time it was DEF related! I also loose 2 mpg every time the DEF decides to pop on for 20 miles or so.

If equal I would go pre DEF. I tend to leave my trucks mainly stock but did put a tuner on the 2001 that I ran in the econo mode. On at trip at 68 mph it would average 24 mpg. The 2015 the best it will do is 18 mpg. NO Way is 6 mpg less helping the environment! Its just bureaucrats forcing things on me that I don't want or need.

[oldwildman]

I took ours to a large semi truck dealer just a little down the road for them to check out things before we bought. Huge operation. Talking with one of the staff while waiting to get it checked out. He thought our rig was newer. Told him what year it was built and he said it was a good choice. They have a large lot with rigs waiting to be worked on. He pointed at that and claimed that probably close to half of them were in for repairs because of DEF related issues.

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by bamaboy473

Both coaches are 42', have good bones, and look good. One uses DEF and the other is pre-DEF. Let's assume that all other factors are equal

Other than a price difference because of age difference, is needing DEF enough of a PITA to choose the pre-DEF one?

On the other hand, does a DEF coach offer benefits that are worth thinking about?

There's all kinds of thoughts on this. While some will advocate that DEF is not an issue and they've had great luck with their trucks and RV's and what not. While others, and there's been quite a few just on this forum alone, that have had some SERIOUS issues with DEF related problems. While DEF or, Diesel Exhaust Fluid is part of an attempt to reduce smog in diesel engines, it's application and components are not without issue and is documented all across the U.S.

And, it's not only RV's. Whether or not any will admit it, there are plenty of DEF issues with GM, Ford and Ram diesel trucks. There's plenty of threads about what happens when a DEF system throws a fit and you get a CEL and there's a high possibility of what's called "Derate" or, the slowing down of engine performance to the point you're talking 10 mph to where ever it may be you're headed to. Does this happen a lot, none of us know. Only the ones that it DOES happen to are there to attest that it DOES in fact happen.

How much is the frequency of DEF related problems, again, since we all don't follow every DEF vehicle on the planet, it's tough to tell. Suffice to say, yes, there are issues with DEF systems/vehicles. If you're one of the lucky ones, you'll have a long life with your DEF equipped vehicle or vehicles and will proudly state it. If you're NOT one of the lucky ones, as was/is the case of a close buddy with a 2014 42' American Dream with the Cummins 450HP, with only 50K on the clock, that had multiple DEF related issues and CEL's, well, then you deal with it in whatever way suits you. He (my buddy, took care of the problem, WITHOUT selling it)

Soooo, should you buy a DEF coach or a non DEF coach?
Scott

[puttin]

Good response imho. Plus, I happen to like many of the earlier Monocos, Beavers, Cheetahs, and Panthers!