Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Class A Motorhome Discussions
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-20-2021, 04:24 PM   #43
Senior Member
 
mackwrench's Avatar
 
American Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: North Florida
Posts: 2,474
I've heard of, but never seen this tool, but looks foolproof in setting the correct wheel end adjustment on heavy axles.

http://www.doctorpreload.com/#doctor-preload


I know there's a lot of strong opinions and folks here been doing their way forever, but I seen a post here earlier about using a Brass punch/drift to drive races in....brass is a way soft metal that flakes and chips off easy...by doing it that way, it's easy to introduce brass "flakes" into the hub oil.
If a punch is required, use a piece of softer key stock, or most times use a hard punch on the old race to drive the new one in ....
Attachment 351913
__________________
1999 American Eagle
ASE med/heavy certified technician
ASE advanced diesel certified
mackwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 12-20-2021, 06:28 PM   #44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Watertown NY USA
Posts: 6,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comanche59 View Post
My most recent issue; had new tires put on my truck and a few days later my wife could hear a squeak coming from what she thought was the right front wheel. I checked and the lug nuts were loose. Luckily she noticed the squeak before the wheel and/or lugs were damaged. I had been buying tires at this store for over 30 years and this was the first time this had happened. Be vigilant and alert always; but especially following repair work.
This happens more often than you might think. Especially on aluminum wheels which can become corroded. If the backside of the wheel and the hub aren't clean the wheel may not center correctly against the hub when the wheel nuts are tightened. The wheel will bind so the tapered part on the nut isn't fully bottomed out but the nut is tight against the wheel. After a few miles the wheel will work into place, the nut is no longer tight against the wheel and the wheel is not tight against the hub.
In my shop we drove every vehicle around the block turning right and left and starting and stopping after installing aluminum wheels back onto a vehicle. Then we brought the vehicle back into the shop, raised the vehicle off it's wheels and re-torqued the wheels using the appropriate torque stick and an impact wrench. We never had a vehicle come back to our shop with a loose wheel issue.
I should add we did clean the backside of wheels with a brass wire brush on a grinder and cleaned the hubs as well.
We also put a note on the service invoice advising the customer to return the vehicle after 50 miles of driving to have the wheel nut tightness checked. We had very few people take us up on this.
__________________
2002 Fleetwood Storm 30H on Workhorse P32 chassis 8.1 gas.
LETMGROW is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2021, 06:26 AM   #45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by alank View Post
Just like a lot of threads about a specific subject, a lot of opinions, some good, some not so good. The OP says he's not a mechanic, so it will be real hard for him to determine which posts are good advice.

I don't think he has any problem. In his second post he said that if he tightened the nut to the next pin position, the play (looseness) stopped. If the nut is only loosened 1/6 of a turn, or less, then it's just fine, even though it may be a bit more loose than the other wheel.

It has been suggested that end play should be .001" to .005".
If you do the math, if your threaded end is 3/4" X 16 threads, each thread (full turn of the nut) is equal to .0625". Divide the .0625" by the six flat positions on the nut and you will find that the nut can only be pinned in each .010" positions.
Bottom line is that .001" to .005" end play may be good theory, it's not a possibility in all cases.

That is why many are moving to Stake Nuts or use an Offset Castle Cap instead of Castle Nuts giving many more than just 6 positions.

One should note that its best practice to discard a Cotter Pin or Stake Nut whenever you remove them and use a new one whenever you perform a service on a spindle.
__________________
Neil V
2001 Winnebago Adventurer WFG35U
NeilV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2021, 06:33 AM   #46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by LETMGROW View Post
This happens more often than you might think. Especially on aluminum wheels which can become corroded. If the backside of the wheel and the hub aren't clean the wheel may not center correctly against the hub when the wheel nuts are tightened. The wheel will bind so the tapered part on the nut isn't fully bottomed out but the nut is tight against the wheel. After a few miles the wheel will work into place, the nut is no longer tight against the wheel and the wheel is not tight against the hub.
In my shop we drove every vehicle around the block turning right and left and starting and stopping after installing aluminum wheels back onto a vehicle. Then we brought the vehicle back into the shop, raised the vehicle off it's wheels and re-torqued the wheels using the appropriate torque stick and an impact wrench. We never had a vehicle come back to our shop with a loose wheel issue.
I should add we did clean the backside of wheels with a brass wire brush on a grinder and cleaned the hubs as well.
We also put a note on the service invoice advising the customer to return the vehicle after 50 miles of driving to have the wheel nut tightness checked. We had very few people take us up on this.

The 50 mile check for tightness after changing a tire, even when you put on the spare yourself has been standard procedure for at least 60 years that I can remember and goes back father than that.

People still haven't changed though and too many unfortunately skip that important safety step with an unacceptable percentage having the wheel roll past them when it comes off.
__________________
Neil V
2001 Winnebago Adventurer WFG35U
NeilV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2021, 06:43 AM   #47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by mackwrench View Post
I've heard of, but never seen this tool, but looks foolproof in setting the correct wheel end adjustment on heavy axles.

Doctor Preload® Bearing Adjustment Tools and Temper-Loc® Spindle Nuts


I know there's a lot of strong opinions and folks here been doing their way forever, but I seen a post here earlier about using a Brass punch/drift to drive races in....brass is a way soft metal that flakes and chips off easy...by doing it that way, it's easy to introduce brass "flakes" into the hub oil.
If a punch is required, use a piece of softer key stock, or most times use a hard punch on the old race to drive the new one in ....
Attachment 351913

That's a $1,500 to $2,000 tool that requires the use of special axle nuts if I am reading the specifications correctly. Not sure if that is viable for an owner especially since they have a different model to be used on drive and steer axles so $3,000 to $4,000 for the pair.
__________________
Neil V
2001 Winnebago Adventurer WFG35U
NeilV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2021, 07:07 AM   #48
Senior Member
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lowell, Arkansas
Posts: 7,297
I don't have enough time to read all the posts but so far I have not read this bit of information.

As far as I know bearing preload is primarily needed based on how much work was done when the bearings were serviced. Meaning this!!! If the bearing races were replaced they must be seated down to the shoulder built into the hub. A shoulder or 90 degree lip assures that the race is in a spot where it won't move any more.

I realize that not every time are races removed and replaced. The baring preload simply assures that all races, bearings, seals are exactly where they need to be. A pre-load can be something as simple as, turning the ratchet 1/8th to 1/4 of a turn past when the spindle nut stopped turning. When the nut is moved that small turn IF (and that's a BIG IF) all parts are not where they are designed to be seated that last pre-load or in some cases torque setting will move them to their correct stopping place. If all parts were properly seated before applying the last turn or torque. Over tightening them will not hurt anything. The over tightening is only done to assure all parts are seated properly. Also any excess grease is squeezed out again assuring no excess space.

After seating all parts the ratchet is loosened an amount like 1/4 or 1/2 of a turn. Then the spindle nut is hand tightened until there is between .001 to .003 of an inch of bearing clearance or top to bottom wheel movement.

The above procedure will assure correct bearing clearances. As far as I've ever learned or read the .001 to .003 setting works for all bearings. I learned this process from a guy who worked on Indy type race cars. It has never failed me over the last 45 years.
__________________
TeJay Auto Instructor/4-yrs USAF/ Liz: RN/ WBGO 2014 Vista 30T/ F-53/CHF/5-Star/Koni * Bella & Izzy * Golden /Cocker mix/ Louie The Cat* All Retired
TeJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2021, 08:42 AM   #49
Senior Member
 
HarryStone's Avatar


 
Damon Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Clovis NM
Posts: 4,389
Blog Entries: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeJay View Post
I don't have enough time to read all the posts but so far I have not read this bit of information.

As far as I know bearing preload is primarily needed based on how much work was done when the bearings were serviced. Meaning this!!! If the bearing races were replaced they must be seated down to the shoulder built into the hub. A shoulder or 90 degree lip assures that the race is in a spot where it won't move any more.

I realize that not every time are races removed and replaced. The baring preload simply assures that all races, bearings, seals are exactly where they need to be. A pre-load can be something as simple as, turning the ratchet 1/8th to 1/4 of a turn past when the spindle nut stopped turning. When the nut is moved that small turn IF (and that's a BIG IF) all parts are not where they are designed to be seated that last pre-load or in some cases torque setting will move them to their correct stopping place. If all parts were properly seated before applying the last turn or torque. Over tightening them will not hurt anything. The over tightening is only done to assure all parts are seated properly. Also any excess grease is squeezed out again assuring no excess space.

After seating all parts the ratchet is loosened an amount like 1/4 or 1/2 of a turn. Then the spindle nut is hand tightened until there is between .001 to .003 of an inch of bearing clearance or top to bottom wheel movement.

The above procedure will assure correct bearing clearances. As far as I've ever learned or read the .001 to .003 setting works for all bearings. I learned this process from a guy who worked on Indy type race cars. It has never failed me over the last 45 years.
I completely agree Teejay. But I was chastised for calling that process "preload".
__________________
2006 Damon Daybreak 3276 35'with 5 Star Tuner. 3 200 Amp Lithium batteries and 2000 watt PSW inverter/charger. 2013 Elantra on a Master Tow dolly.
Retired USAF
HarryStone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2021, 11:31 AM   #50
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Rogers, AR
Posts: 2,601
To me "preload" is a tightness the part operates under during its operating life.
For example, your wheel lugs on a 22.5" wheel are tightened to a torque of 450 to 500 lbs. of preload, and they stay there for their operating life.

Tightening bearing components to a point that is past "0" clearance is just that, "tightening past 0 clearance" then released to set the proper operating clearance. It may be done to assure proper positioning of the components, but is not left there for operation, so there's no preload on the bearing as it starts to roll down the road, other than the weight of the vehicle.

Many wheel bearings today are preloaded from the factory. Many cars have a bearing/hub assembly that have preloaded bearings installed, no adjustment necessary, or possible. I don't know what the preload is, but lets just say the preload would the same as having #200 of weight on the wheel of a vehicle, which would get it to "0" clearance for a starting point. That would be like one person setting on the framework. When the hub is installed on a vehicle and the weight of the vehicle is put down in the hub, that corner of the vehicle might weigh 900 lbs., so the 200 lb. preload would be rather insignificant.

Your idea of "preload" is dependent on what you have learned from others over the years.
__________________
2019 Fleetwood Discovery LXE 40M w/2021 Equinox
alank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2021, 07:58 AM   #51
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Rogers, AR
Posts: 2,601
Well, all I can say is, unlike you, some people like to continue to learn and do things.

I have a friend from high school years that can get anything done, because he has a telephone, and that's the way he lives his life.
__________________
2019 Fleetwood Discovery LXE 40M w/2021 Equinox
alank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2021, 09:51 AM   #52
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: no longer mine
Posts: 59
In answer to #43. Yes a brass punch will lose some material. BTW Mack, for 9 years I transported Macks. But the P30 motorhome I had did not have oiled hubs. But greased bearings. (16" wheels) And yes used old races to drive new. Plus had a portable air compressor and generator to blow out components. (dirt stone lot, 5/8" plywood worksurface) Along with brake cleaner and a bearing grease packer tool. And used feeler gauges to verify races were seated. And no, didn't spin bearings while dry. Another procedure I always follow is to torque all wheel nuts. Vehicle comes back from inspection, wheel nuts are re-torqued. Also always install better brake shoes. Not economy.
Happy Holidays. Keep trucking/RVing. Sam G.
homesteader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2021, 10:02 AM   #53
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: no longer mine
Posts: 59
HAHAHAHA. #46. Off Subject? Many years ago I left tightening of my rear wheels to my younger brother when I installed slicks on my 1955 Chevy. Drove 3 miles when all of a sudden boomp boomp boomp, bang. Wheels came off and stuck in fender wells. Another young driver mishap! Also had a front bearing give out on my '70 Bonneville and we changed it along the road. Those good 'ol days! Sam G.
homesteader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2021, 10:08 AM   #54
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Watertown NY USA
Posts: 6,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by alank View Post
To me "preload" is a tightness the part operates under during its operating life.
For example, your wheel lugs on a 22.5" wheel are tightened to a torque of 450 to 500 lbs. of preload, and they stay there for their operating life.

Tightening bearing components to a point that is past "0" clearance is just that, "tightening past 0 clearance" then released to set the proper operating clearance. It may be done to assure proper positioning of the components, but is not left there for operation, so there's no preload on the bearing as it starts to roll down the road, other than the weight of the vehicle.

Many wheel bearings today are preloaded from the factory. Many cars have a bearing/hub assembly that have preloaded bearings installed, no adjustment necessary, or possible. I don't know what the preload is, but lets just say the preload would the same as having #200 of weight on the wheel of a vehicle, which would get it to "0" clearance for a starting point. That would be like one person setting on the framework. When the hub is installed on a vehicle and the weight of the vehicle is put down in the hub, that corner of the vehicle might weigh 900 lbs., so the 200 lb. preload would be rather insignificant.

Your idea of "preload" is dependent on what you have learned from others over the years.
I think a lot of folks have confused the words "preload" and "set". When you have two separate bearings with cups in a hub when you are adjusting the bearings you tighten the bearing enough to remove all the free play in the bearing. This is referred to as "Setting the bearing". Sometimes it's advisable to do this a few times before your final adjustment which is normally backing off the retaining nut and installing the cotter pin which will allow a small amount of free play so when the vehicle is rolling down the road and the bearing heats up and expands it has room for expansion. If you start out with no free play the bearing can overheat, the lube will run out and the bearing will eventually seize. It used to be an old rule of thumb if you could wiggle the washer under the nut back and forth with a screwdriver you were "good to go".
The newer bearing assemblies referred to as "Hub assemblies" have a preset preload in them when delivered in the box. You will find an instruction sheet packed with most hub assemblies which will have a torque specification to be used when it's installed to retain the preload. This was relayed to me several years ago at a seminar presented by SKF which is the supplier to NAPA for bearings and hub assemblies.
Other bearings whether industrial or automotive may have a preload specification which should be followed. Differential side and pinion bearings, transfer case and some auto transmission bearings would fall into that category among many others. These bearings are generally immersed in oil so there is no danger of the lubricant running away from the bearing unless the oil level becomes too low unlike a wheel hub which has a lot of space between bearing assemblies for lube to run to.
I agree with TJay that bearing cups must be completely seated in the hub. This is why I have a complete set of cup installers for just about every size bearing I would ever encounter along with the appropriate driver handles or can be used in a shop press after inspecting the hub bores carefully. I much prefer these to using a punch and hammer to do the job. The right tool for the job is important to me.
__________________
2002 Fleetwood Storm 30H on Workhorse P32 chassis 8.1 gas.
LETMGROW is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2021, 11:45 AM   #55
Senior Member
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lowell, Arkansas
Posts: 7,297
almacd1814,

While I don't disagree with your assessment you forgot this one aspect of vehicle (RV) services. Many of us do not trust shops to do work that we can do ourselves or may be able to do with just a bit of coaching. Some jobs like tire pressures, wheel bearings, chassis lubrication, replacing SB bushings, rotating tires (19.5" only) oil/filter changes, checking antifreeze, brake bleeding and I'm sure I've missed several other somewhat routine services as well.

Then there are many who have better or even great skills but perhaps never worked on truck type chassis like myself. I can do a brake job in all respects in my sleep but I've never dealt with a chassis of this size. Many of these posts gives me a bit more in depth information working on an RV chassis. Every, even small idea on special tools, tricks and ways to do this job better based on the heavier weights and special tools is always good information.

There's a very well done (MarvinG) step by step thread on here with excellent information and pics on a complete brake service on the Ford F-53 chassis.

Just in my case alone I've got better than 50 years experience working on and teaching you name it (house building, cement, marine, some aircraft, plumbing, mechanical/electrical, wood working etc,etc). Add everybody's experiences and you'd probably have better than 400 or more years combined. We all have certain skills in areas some are better on one type of repair than others and all the readers have to do is sort through what's posted and make their own decision. That's what makes this such a great FORUM. No one person usually has all the answers. Some are better than others and after enough reading one can usually know who to trust but don't skip posts because you might miss a good idea or bit of help.

I love this forum. In a way I'm still teaching which was a field I didn't aspire to initially but after about 3-5 years of experience my students told me I was darn good at it. My lesson plan was very simple: NEVER, NEVER treat my students the poor way I was treated all the way through college.
__________________
TeJay Auto Instructor/4-yrs USAF/ Liz: RN/ WBGO 2014 Vista 30T/ F-53/CHF/5-Star/Koni * Bella & Izzy * Golden /Cocker mix/ Louie The Cat* All Retired
TeJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2021, 12:36 AM   #56
Senior Member
 
almacd1814's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: VANCOUVER ISLAND, B.C.
Posts: 172
Wheel Bearing Set Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by mackwrench View Post
CountyB is correct on heavy axle wheel ends, The PDF he's attached is spot on....or Google RP618, that's the American Trucking Association (TMC) recommended practice for adjustment on steer/tag and drive axle wheel ends.....on heavy truck/motorcoach axles.

I'm just putting this out here.....

I don't know what axle the OP has or needs information on, but it's apparent that there's some "larger wheel end" folks here.

YouTube has lots of failed wheel end videos, hopefully no one here will be able to add to!


No matter the size of axle, bearings or hub, on a Jon boat trailer or a off road dump truck, the spec is the same 0.001 to 0.005 of end play.
FINALLY!!! Someone that knows what he is talking about!! And look at that, he is a mechanic. He is one of the few people on this topic that should be replacing wheel bearings! Not someone that does not know what a cotter pin is.
almacd1814 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best bearing brands, Dexter bearing info Stewfish 5th Wheel Discussion 21 10-03-2020 06:30 PM
drive shaft bearing/center bearing/hanger bearing TrekPR Workhorse and Chevrolet Chassis Motorhome Forum 3 05-22-2018 11:44 PM
Bedroom load-bearing slideout bearing broke Bob&AnnaMari Monaco Owner's Forum 6 07-14-2014 07:52 PM
Wheel Bearing Fill Plug Firefolk Workhorse and Chevrolet Chassis Motorhome Forum 6 02-11-2009 01:41 AM
Wheel Bearing Lubrication 56Nomad Toy Haulers Discussion 4 07-17-2006 06:50 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.