Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Class A Motorhome Discussions
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-16-2021, 09:57 AM   #43
NXR
Senior Member
 
NXR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 5,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_M
Ummm no, it would have been your fault. You have to leave enough room to stop even if they stop for nothing.
A driver can be cited for causing an accident even if they were not involved in the accident.

https://www.jeffjoneslawoffice.com/b...ear-end-crash/

Rear-end collisions aren’t always the fault of the rear driver

There is a myth that the car in the rear is always at fault when they get into a crash with the vehicle that is in front of them. The reality is that either driver could be at fault. If you have a dash cam in your vehicle, for example, showing the authorities that the other vehicle was stopped suddenly and for no reason could be enough to have the other party held liable for the crash.

Brake checking is a kind of road rage. Road rage in itself is illegal, because it is a form of reckless driving. Someone who recklessly controls their vehicle and intentionally puts others at risk should not be on the roads.


Ray
__________________
2020 Forest River Georgetown GT5 34H5
2020 Equinox Premier AWD 2.0L/9-speed
NXR is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-16-2021, 10:11 AM   #44
Senior Member
 
Granite17's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 823
This hit home for us also. This past July, 5 miles out of Nappanee
on Hwy 6, no cars in front of me on our side and about 5 cars coming toward us in the oncoming lane.

All of a sudden a guy in the middle of the pack jumps out to pass and and then realizes he’s gonna hit us head on.

I jump on brakes, they lock briefly
but the coach tracks and drops speed like I never experienced! The other guy realizes his only option is to take the opposing ditch . I now watch him hit the ditch to my right and by a true miracle miss a phone pole and continue past me.

How he kept from fish tailing back into us, will never know.
Closet call in my 55 years of driving.
We definitely said our prayers that night.
I was pulling a full size Tahoe with AF 1, I know if not for the combined stopping power of coach and car, we would be toast.
__________________
John, Sharon & (Luna)-Blk.Tri.Australian Sheppard
2022 Newmar LA 4551, 2019 DS4018 Sold
21' Tahoe Z71, Demco base, Avail bar, Air Force 1.
Granite17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2021, 10:51 AM   #45
Senior Member
 
davidcbaker's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
RV Trip Wizard
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posts: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.Wold View Post
My last significant episode was behind a big rig. He was doing about 50 and I was keeping plenty of stopping distance. Then he exited to the right at an interchange to another highway, so I started cranking up to my normal low 60’s.

At the last minute this guy whipped his rig back to the left across the very end of the gore area and re-entered the highway so close to the overpass I thought he might not make it. At this point I had very little stopping distance because I had no longer been following anyone and I was speeding up, and he was going even slower than before. There was traffic in the #1 lane so that wasn't an option and it was close.

Fortunately I had time to stand on the brakes and lay down some serious rubber (yes I exceeded the anti-lock system capabilities) but it was close. I had no reason to expect the truck driver to do that and if it had resulted in an accident it would have been his fault, for what thats worth. It would have made good video and that was the situation that convinced me to buy a dash cam.

I had never seen anything like that before (not that extreme anyway) and it reminded me of a misconception many of us have: We assume truck drivers are professionals and good drivers. And most of them are, but there are a lot that aren’t. If you drive on the interstate system much you will encounter truckers with poor skills, bad judgement, and/or attitude problems. They are the exception but with so many trucks on the road, their numbers are not insignificant.
Something like that happened to us on our very first trip. At the last minute, the truck we were following (at a safe distance) decided to brake heavily and exit to a truck parking area. The automated system on board the MH decided to activate the brakes (I wish I hadn't). And then the solenoid got stuck and the braking wouldn't let up. I tried to pull off the road and get out of the right of way, but a corner of the MH was still sitting part way in the lane. Had to be towed. Nine hours for 60 miles. It was a great first trip.
__________________
____________
David C. Baker (Nashville): author | speaker | advisor | airplanes | helicopters | motorcycles | photography | woodworking | rving
davidcbaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2021, 04:33 PM   #46
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: NY State
Posts: 3,089
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbircky View Post
You raise an interesting question. What stops in less distance? A MH weighing 38,000 with 5,000 in load or the same MH weighing 38,000 with only a 4,000 unbraked toad?

<snip>


Obviously brakes on a toad are important, just looking for ways to stop even shorter.
The one with all its weight on braked axles wins, hands down, despite the 1K lbs difference in weight.

Why? The unbraked toad weight rests on tires that can contribute no friction to improve the stopping distance, so the tires on the coach have to do all the work. For the more-laden coach, the increased load load on the tires increases the available stopping friction at the tire contact patches.

(Physics/Math warning: The normal load--in this case, the vertical load--times the coefficient of friction determines the amount of stopping power.)

This has been discussed at least a few times. There are some great explanations in a couple of threads about this.
__________________
John
1976 Southwind 28', '96 Winnie 34WK,
2006 Tiffin Allegro Bus 40QDP
n2zon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2021, 08:06 PM   #47
Senior Member
 
dfuelman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: A beach or race track near you.
Posts: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidcbaker View Post
Something like that happened to us on our very first trip. At the last minute, the truck we were following (at a safe distance) decided to brake heavily and exit to a truck parking area. The automated system on board the MH decided to activate the brakes (I wish I hadn't). And then the solenoid got stuck and the braking wouldn't let up. I tried to pull off the road and get out of the right of way, but a corner of the MH was still sitting part way in the lane. Had to be towed. Nine hours for 60 miles. It was a great first trip.
David to go back to your original post, I think you did the very best you could do under the circumstances. I drove Gasoline/Fuel trucks for almost 25 yrs, you cannot always depend on brakes to get you out of trouble. An escape route is sometimes your next best option (yours was blocked by the car in your blind spot) but you continued to drive through the problem and that is the answer always, NEVER QUIT DRIVING the vehicle. Slamming on the brakes is gonna end up in a crash every time. Don't believe me? Look at the skid marks at almost every crash scene. If you cant' get stopped, drive around the object has been my plan, just don't jerk the wheel, keep it under control.

I would never consider pulling a trailer or toad without brakes. Everything is fine right up until things good bad. Then they are REALLY gonna go bad with out trailer/toad brakes.
__________________
2001 Country Coach Intrigue "Chef's Getaway" #11199
dfuelman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2021, 08:19 PM   #48
Moderator Emeritus
 
barmcd's Avatar


 
Monaco Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 13,426
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidcbaker View Post
We were driving north on 31, from Indy to Winona Lake, IN (we're from Nashville). It's a divided two-lane. The car in front saw a yellow light and slammed on their brakes. He was almost under the light, and I don’t even know how he saw it turn yellow.

We were right behind him at an appropriate following distance, but the obvious thing to do was keep going. Even if the car hadn't been there, I would have had to brake heavily to get it stopped. I was really surprised when he slammed on his brakes.

I began to brake aggressively but wasn’t sure if I’d make it, so I elected to swerve from the slow lane to the fast lane to either go by him…or have another 30-40’ to stop.

At the last second I saw a car emerge from my blind spot. He was going to go through the yellow, too, which we all should have done.

Meanwhile, the car in front of me saw me coming and began to move onto the shoulder, but not really far enough.

I brake even harder, intending to swerve into the fast lane as soon as the car on my left passes by.

It was all split second instincts. I fly airplanes and helicopters and taught racing (sponsored by Kawasaki), but I have enormous respect for these big old busses and the weight and lack of handling characteristics. (I’m in a ’21 New Aire 3545 w/ the 450hp.)

Barely missed the car in the car in front. Barely missed the passing car on the left. My wife Julie is screaming and holding onto anything she can. We’re both wearing seatbelts. No time for the horn…not that it would have accomplished anything. Afterwards, she said, in tears, “I’m not sure how you missed both.” Me neither.

I don’t blame anyone. The car in front of me was driven by a very old man who was very conservative about stop lights and I’m sure he felt terrible. The car next to me was doing what normal drivers do. I wouldn’t do anything different, either, except not assume anything.

I guess I’m glad I was paying attention. I would guess that I was doing 45-50 mph at the time. The RV brakes locked for a second (the rear, anyway). I stopped and looked over everything and waived to the older fellow, who had stopped to change his pants, I suspect.

Here’s the kicker. I was towing a 2018 Wrangler Rubicon with a Blue Ox Avail setup (10k lbs) and an AirForce One controller. I’m pretty certain that an improper setup would have ended in disaster. For example, thinking you can get away without a braking system in your TOAD, or not setting it up correctly, or using a lame product. (I’m not suggesting that my setup is the only good one.)

The week before, I decided to test something. I have a 2019 Dodge RAM LImited w/ the Cummins. I think it weighs 8,000 lbs or maybe a little less. I hooked the Jeep up to it, with that same setup, and towed it around on our remote dead end street (we live in the country). I did some heavy braking—the lights work, but of course the brakes don’t in the Jeep. In both cases, it activated the ABS on the truck. Slowing that much weight overwhelms the pickup. I was just curious.

Granted, a 38,000 lb MH towing a 4,500 lb Jeep is way different, but the margin of error is not worth playing with. And when you are swerving WHILE braking, having a big weight pushing your tail to one side is not a good idea.

Braking systems on a TOAD are there for a reason.

I’m not a card carrying member of the safety police, but we do a lot of these things for the very occasional chance encounter like this, and it can make a difference in just catching your breath…or a lot of lost money, time, and some serious heartache.

This was at a stop right beforehand.
Glad it ended well. I experienced a similar situation, except I was in the left lane because I was turning left at the next light. The car cut right in front of me from the right lane, then hit the brakes hard to stop at the yellow light. There was no way I was going to be able to stop so I swerved into the right lane thinking side swiping someone was better than running over them. The lane was empty and later, after I thought about it, it was probably because the car that had been there was the one I was dodging.
__________________
Dennis and Katherine
2000 Monaco Dynasty
barmcd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 04:14 AM   #49
Senior Member
 
Shutterbug57's Avatar
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: May 2019
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 675
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbircky View Post
I’m thinking that a person covering the brake would stop in a shorter distance even with an unbraked toad than another in an equally loaded MH with a braked toad who has to move between pedals.
Have you experience stopping an unbraked toad - I’m guessing not. We had a circumstance where road debris disconnected our brake connection. It took a lot longer to stop the rig than normal.
Shutterbug57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 04:57 AM   #50
Senior Member
 
Xmcdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Alberta
Posts: 1,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by RV Driver View Post
I almost hate to do this, but as an amateur author/writer, things like this really bother me.

It is a BRAKING SYSTEM, not a BREAKING SYSTEM.
Thank you. I see it all the time. Bothers me as well.
__________________
Jeff and Annette Smith. Sparky, lemon Beagle.
2022 Chevy Equinox RS.
2007 Dutch Star
Xmcdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 05:23 AM   #51
Senior Member
 
davidcbaker's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
RV Trip Wizard
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posts: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shutterbug57 View Post
Have you experience stopping an unbraked toad - I’m guessing not. We had a circumstance where road debris disconnected our brake connection. It took a lot longer to stop the rig than normal.
I haven't done it, but that would be my guess, too.
__________________
____________
David C. Baker (Nashville): author | speaker | advisor | airplanes | helicopters | motorcycles | photography | woodworking | rving
davidcbaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2021, 10:15 AM   #52
Senior Member
 
Rob_M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Posts: 3,020
When the Stuff Hits the Fan, Have a Good Brake Setup on the TOAD

When panic stopping, a toad with no brake system puts tremendous stress on the towbar and base plate and connections. Not to mention if the hitch is low compared to the baseplate your toad could try to polevalt over your hitch.
__________________
2002 American Tradition 40'
Cummins 8.3, Banks 431hp, 1260 tq
Canyon Lake, TX
Rob_M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2021, 03:09 PM   #53
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 6
Blog Entries: 1
With all of this in mind, is there an easy way to check air pressure to the toad. I am fairly new to rv'ing with a DP, about 4 years now. I have a Honda CRV with an air system for braking. All seems to work good but was wondering if there is an easy way to verify that I am getting good air pressure to the brake system. If it is a simple pressure gauge, what would be a normal pressure?
Cevin
Cevin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2021, 04:02 PM   #54
Senior Member
 
PandS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,074
To the OP, glad to hear everything worked out OK.
We have a Ready Brake, which uses the actual braking system installed on the toad. I can't imagine any add on device which would improve on that. If the RV brakes hard, the 4 disc brakes on the Honda brake hard. Simple and effective. -Paul
__________________
2017 Ventana 4369
towing a 2013 Honda CRV
PandS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2021, 04:20 PM   #55
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 12
Like that truck driver already said, you were fortunate enough not to get in an accident, but you should have been slowing down in anticipation for the vec. in front of you.
ESS N MAS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2021, 04:23 PM   #56
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidcbaker View Post
we were driving north on 31, from indy to winona lake, in (we're from nashville). It's a divided two-lane. The car in front saw a yellow light and slammed on their brakes. He was almost under the light, and i don’t even know how he saw it turn yellow.

We were right behind him at an appropriate following distance, but the obvious thing to do was keep going. Even if the car hadn't been there, i would have had to brake heavily to get it stopped. I was really surprised when he slammed on his brakes.

I began to brake aggressively but wasn’t sure if i’d make it, so i elected to swerve from the slow lane to the fast lane to either go by him…or have another 30-40’ to stop.

At the last second i saw a car emerge from my blind spot. He was going to go through the yellow, too, which we all should have done.

Meanwhile, the car in front of me saw me coming and began to move onto the shoulder, but not really far enough.

I brake even harder, intending to swerve into the fast lane as soon as the car on my left passes by.

It was all split second instincts. I fly airplanes and helicopters and taught racing (sponsored by kawasaki), but i have enormous respect for these big old busses and the weight and lack of handling characteristics. (i’m in a ’21 new aire 3545 w/ the 450hp.)

barely missed the car in the car in front. Barely missed the passing car on the left. My wife julie is screaming and holding onto anything she can. We’re both wearing seatbelts. No time for the horn…not that it would have accomplished anything. Afterwards, she said, in tears, “i’m not sure how you missed both.” me neither.

I don’t blame anyone. The car in front of me was driven by a very old man who was very conservative about stop lights and i’m sure he felt terrible. The car next to me was doing what normal drivers do. I wouldn’t do anything different, either, except not assume anything.

I guess i’m glad i was paying attention. I would guess that i was doing 45-50 mph at the time. The rv brakes locked for a second (the rear, anyway). I stopped and looked over everything and waived to the older fellow, who had stopped to change his pants, i suspect.

here’s the kicker. I was towing a 2018 wrangler rubicon with a blue ox avail setup (10k lbs) and an airforce one controller. I’m pretty certain that an improper setup would have ended in disaster. For example, thinking you can get away without a braking system in your toad, or not setting it up correctly, or using a lame product. (i’m not suggesting that my setup is the only good one.)

the week before, i decided to test something. I have a 2019 dodge ram limited w/ the cummins. I think it weighs 8,000 lbs or maybe a little less. I hooked the jeep up to it, with that same setup, and towed it around on our remote dead end street (we live in the country). I did some heavy braking—the lights work, but of course the brakes don’t in the jeep. In both cases, it activated the abs on the truck. Slowing that much weight overwhelms the pickup. I was just curious.

Granted, a 38,000 lb mh towing a 4,500 lb jeep is way different, but the margin of error is not worth playing with. And when you are swerving while braking, having a big weight pushing your tail to one side is not a good idea.

Braking systems on a toad are there for a reason.

I’m not a card carrying member of the safety police, but we do a lot of these things for the very occasional chance encounter like this, and it can make a difference in just catching your breath…or a lot of lost money, time, and some serious heartache.

This was at a stop right beforehand.

please share how you hooked up the jeep to your pickup with the "same setup".
__________________
NOMOoffice
2016 Fleetwood Pace Arrow, Chev Colorado toad
NOMOoffice is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
toad, fan, brake



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Used Toad with existing Toad setup whatugetemon Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 5 08-03-2021 02:56 PM
Stuff and more stuff -Stress? Notayurt Just Conversation 16 04-16-2017 11:22 AM
Stuff....so much stuff. aknavy Full-Timers 12 12-05-2016 06:40 AM
“Good Stuff RV” No Good At All Gadget Man iRV2.com General Discussion 7 07-04-2015 12:56 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.