Community Forums

bobfrommaine · 09-23-2021, 06:05 PM

I've read later in this post that many think covering the brake is safer. I can't speak to that, though IMHO, the time from gas to brake application is in the tenths of seconds. However, having driven over a million miles and over 500K on motorcycles, I find most left foot brakers tend to slightly depress the brake pedal when they think they might be slowing down. This lights their brake lights and the following drivers have no idea if these people are going to slow down or are just lifting off the gas. I find this extremely annoying and unsafe. Brake lights are to warn following drivers that you're going to slow down, not lift off the gas and coast. Driving in a line of 10 or 30 cars and seeing one with the brake lights flashing on and off every 100 yards tends to make the following drivers behave differently and causes confusion.
Just an opinion. Good job tho on avoiding the accident that likely many of us would not have avoided.
Bob '14 Winnebago 37F Adventurer; Jeep toad (with RVI3 toad brakes)

kendall69 · 09-23-2021, 06:14 PM

My concern is the lack of awareness on your part. I always look at several car lengths in front of me and along with that, I look at the stoplights. IF I see a light that has been green for a distance I already back down and begin to stop by slowing down, not hitting my brake lights, but coasting up to the light that I know darn well will change by the time I get there.

I never place myself in a situation of running through a stoplight on caution while driving a big rig. We all know what weight does to stopping distances.

Have I made my share of ticked-off drivers behind me, you betcha, do I care not one single bit. Sur I could always race up to a light and "beat" the yellow, WHY? I'm never in that much of a hurry and I know the other drivers like to floor it the second the light turns green for them.

Another thing I do to irritate drivers behind me but has kept me alive more than a dozen times is I never ever go the second the light turns green.

When the light turn green I wait look both ways, if clear then I go. This has saved me from getting T-boned. I taught my wife and daughter this and they both reported back how many times they waited and someone tries to beat the yellow and end up running the red light.

Yep, good driving on your part but poor situational awareness also on your part. You should never put yourself in that situation " hoping the guy in front will go through the yellow"

davidcbaker · 09-23-2021, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kendall69

Yep, good driving on your part but poor situational awareness also on your part. You should never put yourself in that situation " hoping the guy in front will go through the yellow"

TRAKKER · 09-23-2021, 06:51 PM

I am going to repeat what has been said already. You were following too closely. Period. Your rig weighs about ten times the average vehicle. That means ten times the energy to be absorbed by the brakes. You should be maintaining a distance at least five times what you would do in a car. Swerving to avoid a vehicle is very risky. Our rigs are top heavy and we have seen many on their side from a swerve. You are also lucky your toad did not jack-knife. As a motorhome driver, you have the advantage of a high point of view. Always be scanning well ahead of yourself for dangers such as intersections and traffic lights. A motorhome driver must be super cautious because of the size and weight of his vehicle.

mak1 · 09-23-2021, 07:26 PM

I was wondering why you wrote about the toad? If I read this right, you had planned to, as most of us, go through the yellow, correct? You couldn't stop in any case so why didn't you just go around the stopped car with a mild tap on the brakes? It seemed you had enough time and space to so.

Ray,IN · 09-23-2021, 07:30 PM

Concerning the towed braking, this is exactly like towing a trailer with your pickup. The brakes on the truck are designed to stop it at GVWR. The trailer brakes are designed the same, to stop it at it's GVWR. Exactly the same for a MH towing something.
IMO David Baker handled the situation coolly and finesse to avoid a crash. (there is no such thing as an auto accident)

davidcbaker · 09-23-2021, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRAKKER

I am going to repeat what has been said already. You were following too closely. Period. Your rig weighs about ten times the average vehicle. That means ten times the energy to be absorbed by the brakes. You should be maintaining a distance at least five times what you would do in a car. Swerving to avoid a vehicle is very risky. Our rigs are top heavy and we have seen many on their side from a swerve. You are also lucky your toad did not jack-knife. As a motorhome driver, you have the advantage of a high point of view. Always be scanning well ahead of yourself for dangers such as intersections and traffic lights. A motorhome driver must be super cautious because of the size and weight of his vehicle.

davidcbaker · 09-23-2021, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mak1

I was wondering why you wrote about the toad? If I read this right, you had planned to, as most of us, go through the yellow, correct? You couldn't stop in any case so why didn't you just go around the stopped car with a mild tap on the brakes? It seemed you had enough time and space to so.

Peter, I didn't think I could stop safely, and so I went to into the lane to my left but caught a car out of the corner of my eye. So I kept the heavy braking, waited until that car passed, and then pulled out.

I mentioned the TOAD because I'm fairly certain that I would not have been able to stop with a TOAD had it not been equipped with an auxiliary braking system.

davidcbaker · 09-23-2021, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

Concerning the towed braking, this is exactly like towing a trailer with your pickup. The brakes on the truck are designed to stop it at GVWR. The trailer brakes are designed the same, to stop it at it's GVWR. Exactly the same for a MH towing something.
IMO David Baker handled the situation coolly and finesse to avoid a crash. (there is no such thing as an auto accident)

Thank you, Ray.

Igeaux · 09-23-2021, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbircky

Wow, you’re way below the average in reaction time. Several studies in traffic safety and driver behavior analysis have found RT values to vary between 2 to 2.5 seconds (Green, 2000;Johansson and Rumar, 1971;McGehee et al., 2000;Summala, 2000;Taoka, 1989;Triggs, 1987).

We owned a performance driving school and Racetrack for over 10 years and are principles in one of Europe's top racing teams. A few notable drivers went through our Driver Development Program, Justin Wilson, Alexander Rossi, Sebastian Vettel, Sergio Perez and Marco Marquez to name a few.

I do not remember any of them having an eye to hand or foot reflex faster than 0.5 seconds. At my best, 12 years ago, when I retired, 0.56 - 0.7 was my average, at 73, I doubt that I could repeat those times today.

BTW in NHRA Drag Racing, 0.49999999 seconds reaction time trips the Red-light and your race is over.

Rob_M · 09-23-2021, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mak1

I was wondering why you wrote about the toad? If I read this right, you had planned to, as most of us, go through the yellow, correct? You couldn't stop in any case so why didn't you just go around the stopped car with a mild tap on the brakes? It seemed you had enough time and space to so.

Go back and read his original post.

Rob_M · 09-23-2021, 08:28 PM

DavidCbaker, thanks for your honest helpful post. Im sorry you’re dealing with responses from so many perfect drivers who would have done better. In reality most of them probably would have been in or caused a collision, and blamed it on someone else.

garyb1st · 09-23-2021, 09:24 PM

Glad you avoided a potentially serious accident. It sounds like you made a split section decision to run the light rather than hit your brakes. The fact that you had time to attempt to drive around the stopped car and then get back into your lane and stop tells me you probably were a safe distance behind the other vehicle. So hats off to you.

Still I think there are lessons to be learned here. Aside from having the braking mechanism on the toad, your background tells me you have a pretty good idea of the dynamics of speed and weight. That together with a newer more capable coach went a long way in keeping you out of harms way. But, many drivers would not have been able to escape that potentially serious accident. And while I'm not an attorney, my background in insurance tells me you would be facing some serious liability if you weren't able to stop. So my advice is to increase that safe distance. And if someone decides he wants to occupy that space, let him and just slow down until that space increases again.

Because, and I know this for a fact, the extra hour you will gain at the campground will pale by comparison to the amount of time you will spend talking to attorneys and insurance adjusters.

popatanz · 09-24-2021, 05:59 AM

Just a few points to add to one of the better discussions on this site.
1. I agree on the need for a toad brake. The more capacity you have the better chance you have.
2. Great job on NOT "target fixing" in that situation. I am sure due to your motorcycle training.
3. "Covering" the brake approaching any intersection is a must for all the reasons mentioned. On the race track every one is going in the same direction and most times starting to brake in the same zone, just applying them differently based on skill, risk analysis, or how much the want that $2 plastic trophy.