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Old 08-13-2020, 10:05 PM   #15
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Engines

Not saying all navistar engine are bad, they have and will build some real good ones, the motor they supplied to ford pre 2014 for there pickups was a great one, I'm just saying I would stay away from any with the EGR feedback type emission control system .
My 2000 american eagle has a 8.3 cummins not because I was seeking that out, but because it was just there, got a incredable deal through a family friend, it starts great even after sittig for months, but the downside is for a 40,ft coach it's only 350 hp so climbing hills is not its best forte, but its old enough that it has no real emission control system, being old school I kind of like it that way.
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Old 08-13-2020, 10:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cousin Ed View Post
If you are talking about diesel engines for those years your choice is Cummins and that's it.
Yes that is true but are there not Cummins engines with certain serial # that could be questionable!
I know in the larger industrial engines they, meaning manufactures are doing constant upgrades.

My daughter-in-law is a parts manager at Cummins and has said many times that there are people that have talked to her about Engines and asked about issues. The parts department can pull up parts sales history by serial #. She did it for me and it helped with a decision about a purchase I made.
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Old 08-13-2020, 10:44 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Ray,IN View Post
Newer Cummins engines must sense oil pressure before the ECM allows the engine to start, thus the longer cranking time. This eliminates a dry-start condition.
I have installed prelude pumps on two of my units. I do not believe in cranking over an engine to build oil pressure.
Prelude pumps are electric and the engine will not crank until oil pressure is sensed at a switch normally mounted on the oil filter housing.
I had one problem where the engine would not start as the switch failed.
The second one I installed I put an override switch on the dash never had to use it over 10 years and 140000 miles. Sure miss that coach!
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Old 08-13-2020, 10:55 PM   #18
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Prelube pumps have been available for years. Most truckers don't use them and some get 1,000,000 miles or more.
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Old 08-14-2020, 12:54 AM   #19
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Please, list your reasons for thinking a Class A is an 'upgrade'?

Please, list your reasons for thinking your Class C is inadequate for your needs?

*****

Engines I avoid are Detroit Diesel two-strokes such as 6V-71 and 8V-92 series.
Boats powered by the 12V-92 twelve-cylinder series and 16V-92 sixteen-cylinder series seem to last longer partly because of the unlimited cooling potential of the ocean as a radiator.
I rarely see the six- or eight-cylinder versions in land-based vehicles without the 'Silver' designation indicating it was a factory replacement... meaning the original went TU ('toes up').
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Old 08-14-2020, 05:50 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Ray,IN View Post
Newer Cummins engines must sense oil pressure before the ECM allows the engine to start, thus the longer cranking time. This eliminates a dry-start condition.
How is cranking the engine (dry?) many revolutions to build oil pressure better than just starting up it on the first crank were it would have full oil pressure immediately?
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Old 08-14-2020, 06:07 AM   #21
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Like the OP I'm in the market for a diesel powered coach. I have talked to several diesel mechanics and small trucking company owners and what I get is that you should avoid the Maxxforce engines like the plague and not worry about DEF as the way a motor home is driven it won't be a problem. The issue with DEF is apparently when the are used in city traffic or left to idle for a long time, not things motor homes generally do. If you're out on the highway the coach regens automatically and it's not an issue, or so I'm told. I was also told that Cummins should be your engine of choice. For what it's worth.
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Old 08-14-2020, 07:14 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by arcaguy View Post
not worry about DEF as the way a motor home is driven it won't be a problem. The issue with DEF is apparently when the are used in city traffic or left to idle for a long time, not things motor homes generally do. If you're out on the highway the coach regens automatically and it's not an issue, or so I'm told. I was also told that Cummins should be your engine of choice. For what it's worth.
He's talking about the diesel particulate filter (DPF), not the diesel exhaust fluid (DEF).

The DPF is just a filter that collects the soot (black smoke) you used to see from older diesels. Over time, the filter gets clogged, so the engine computer will deliberately run the exhaust temperature up and burn off the soot collected on the filter. That's called passive DPF regeneration. Sometimes, passive regen isn't good enough. In that case the computer will actually spray diesel fuel directly onto the filter and light it on fire. That's called active DPF regeneration. DPF regen will typically not happen below a certain speed, because the high exhaust temperatures can start fires if parked on something flammable. This is all managed entirely by the computer. There is nothing you need to -- or even can -- do to manage it. Extended idling is bad for your DPF because it builds up soot and keeps exhaust temps too low to regen. Some people recommend setting fast idle in that situation. Stop-and-go traffic is also bad for your DPF because you never get going fast enough to permit a regen. If your DPF gets so clogged that it can't be regenerated, you basically need a new one. I believe they cost a few thousand dollars.

DEF is urea mixed with water. It's injected into the exhaust to create a reaction which breaks down NOx in the exhaust into nitrogen and oxygen. So in addition to a diesel fuel tank, you also have a DEF tank, usually around 10-20 gallons. The amount of DEF used is computer-controlled and so varies depending on too many factors to really predict consumption. But I add DEF about every 3-4 fuel trips. It's available in large jugs at Walmart, just about every convenience store, and a bunch of other places besides. They also have DEF dispensers at the fuel stations in truck stops. If you ever run out of DEF, your engine will automatically derate and not allow you to go faster than about 5mph. Some people carry around a jug or two of DEF for just such an eventuality. The most common class of failures of the DEF system are ones that tell the computer you are out of DEF when you actually aren't. Sometimes they can be tough to track down and repair.

Both systems add complexity, and if they fail, they can leave you stranded alongside the road with hefty repair bills. That's why a lot of people hate them. But they are extremely effective. My coach does not belch black smoke, and the exhaust is very nearly odorless: it completely lacks the characteristic diesel stench. Those are valuable to me in all circumstances, but especially when I am driving somewhere pretty. So, to me, it's worth it.
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Old 08-14-2020, 08:06 AM   #23
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Engines

I agree, as stated in a earlier post, I am a retired municipal fleet tech from metro detroit and the sterling trucks we used for salt spreading had a real problem with the regen cycle while being used for that purpose. The slow speeds involved in that operations would cause the truck to go into limp mode (10 to 15 mph top speed), also if the pcm sensed contamination in the oil it would put it in limp mode as well, that was easy to fix, just changed the oil, the other got a bit more compicated to resolve.
Having started in the auto repair buss. back in the early 70,s I lived through the late 70s a early 80,s federally mandated emission reductions, horse power suffered, engines became
repair nightmares, anyone who lived through that time knows what I'm talking about . My 82 full size chevy van with a 350 had a wopping 145 hp. Diesel engines have experienced those same growing pains over the last 10 to 12 years, some ideas work great, others not so much, I would keep that in mind when researching your diesel powered vehicle purchase.
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Old 08-14-2020, 08:13 AM   #24
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The 3100 series CAT engines are bad news.
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Old 08-14-2020, 08:39 AM   #25
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Yeah, I had cars from the late 70s and 80s, and I don't think I had a single engine problem that wasn't related to EPA or CAFE. It seems to me that diesels are handling the transition better than gas did. It probably helps that diesels had a head start on certain technologies, like direct injection and turbocharging.
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Old 08-14-2020, 08:59 AM   #26
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Engines

I agree, my 2000 cumins has electronic controlled injection.
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Old 08-14-2020, 10:29 AM   #27
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Quote:
If you are talking about diesel engines for those years your choice is Cummins and that's it.
Also Navistar, Detroit Diesel, and Volvo, but you will likely find DD & Volvo only in luxury class coaches.

I would avoid Navistar if I could - it can be a challenge to find a shop that will work on a Navistar in a motorhome. A Cummins engine in a Freightliner chassis is the easiest to get serviced - most any diesel shop will be familiar with it.
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Old 08-14-2020, 12:06 PM   #28
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Engine

If Gary says it you can take it to the bank, his wealth of knowledge and information have guided me through several projects on my motorhome.
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