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Old 08-20-2020, 07:51 AM   #57
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Old 08-20-2020, 07:57 AM   #58
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many miles before...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piros1 View Post
I have two Maxforce 7s in my fleet both had emission issues that led to engine replacement.
How much miles you did with it before having to replace it?
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Old 08-20-2020, 04:27 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryB View Post
How is cranking the engine (dry?) many revolutions to build oil pressure better than just starting up it on the first crank were it would have full oil pressure immediately?
My Cummins manual actually states to pull the fuel relay and crank the engine for a certain amount of time after storage to prevent a dry start. I like to use Lucas Oil Stabilizer to prevent a dry start condition instead. I don't believe you will have oil pressure immediately upon start up after long term storage.
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Old 08-20-2020, 04:49 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryB View Post
How is cranking the engine (dry?) many revolutions to build oil pressure better than just starting up it on the first crank were it would have full oil pressure immediately?
When the engine is shut down, oil begins to drain from the oil system. Eventually, the oil galleries all drain into the sump. It takes time for the oil pump to reprime the entire system so that oil is delivered to all the places it's supposed to go to. Waiting for oil pressure before adding the pressures imposed by combustion to things like main and rod bearings and cam lobes is a really good thing in my opinion.
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Old 08-20-2020, 11:34 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Freddyjoe View Post
How much miles you did with it before having to replace it?
I believe one had about 6000 hours and the other was a little more. My trucks all have PTO operated equipment so we do all of our maintenance based on hours. Oil change every 250 hours. Typically we get about double to triple that or more on a similar size Cat engine 18,000 to 23,000 hours. From what we were told one hour is equivalent to 43 miles as an average. I think our speedometer was showing a little over a 100,000 miles on both trucks. The EGR coolers are also prone to failure.

You could do an EGR delete and this would eliminate a lot of the emissions caused failures. Probably would never get caught doing this to a Motorhome since the are exempt from most inspections.
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Old 08-23-2020, 05:25 AM   #62
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We are looking to upgrade from our 33 foot fifth wheel to a used 40 foot class A diesel (no tag).

We are looking hard at the 2008 Winnebago Tour units with lower mileage (below 60k) because we like their floor plans. These are powered by the 8.9 litre Cummins 400 hp turbo diesel. They also have a diesel generator and are nicely optioned.

Is this a good powerplant, since it's a Cummins and it's pre-DEF? (I actually have the 2008 6.7 litre turbo diesel in my 2008 RAM 3500 and it's been steady as a rock for 12 years.)

We just don't have any class A experience to go on. Any exp with the Winnebago Tours would be helpful.
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Old 08-23-2020, 06:36 AM   #63
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Prevost started installing the Volvo engine in the 2012 chassis's (2013 motorhomes/coaches).

Compared to the Detroit Diesel, the Volvo has more torque and is quieter.

The Detroit Diesel has many, many millions of proven reliable miles.

So far, at just over 57,000 miles, the Volvo engine has been excellent along with the DEF/DPF system, no problems. I've only seen it 'regen' three times during that time of which one was about 500 miles ago.

What I really enjoy is that the Prevost service centers are well stocked with parts and get you in and out as quickly as possible. These shops are geared towards Prevost passenger buses so those buses need to get back into service ASAP! Time is money!

We, as Prevost coach owners, get the benefit of that business model!

Safe travels,
Mark
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Old 08-23-2020, 11:04 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapehound View Post
We are looking to upgrade from our 33 foot fifth wheel to a used 40 foot class A diesel (no tag).

We are looking hard at the 2008 Winnebago Tour units with lower mileage (below 60k) because we like their floor plans. These are powered by the 8.9 litre Cummins 400 hp turbo diesel. They also have a diesel generator and are nicely optioned.

Is this a good powerplant, since it's a Cummins and it's pre-DEF? (I actually have the 2008 6.7 litre turbo diesel in my 2008 RAM 3500 and it's been steady as a rock for 12 years.)

We just don't have any class A experience to go on. Any exp with the Winnebago Tours would be helpful.
I think Winnebago builds a solid coach even though as stated previously I f F Id not have good experience with mine. The chassis was to light for what it was rated to tow and carry. I had a fair amount of issues with water leaks as well. Mine was a 2008 Winnebago Journey. The Tour edition is in their top line of coaches and I have no experience with them. My thoughts would be it is on a heavier chassis and maybe a bit nicer than what I had. Depending on when your coach was built you still a regen emissions system on your engine but it uses a small amount of fuel to clean the particulate filter rather than DEF. There are a number of issues with this system as well. My experience has been with my fleet is mostly due to the PTO driven equipment. It just doesnt work well with the regen system which primarily was from 2008-2010 or 2011, Navistar used this system longer until 2014 or 2015 I think. Memory is slipping a bit. I never had any issues with the emissions on my Journey but it only had 4900 miles on it when I purchased it and traded it with 22,000 two years later.

The two most important things about a Motorhome are the floor plan and driver comfort while behind the wheel. You have to be happy with both or you will tier of it quickly. I moved up to a tag axle coach and would not buy anything less. Handling is so much better and you are less fatigued after a long days drive especially when you do several back to back.

If you want to stay away from emission issues turn the click back to 2007 or older. But the older the coach the more other possible aging issues arise. I purposely did not go to deep into emissions as that is another long winded topic and there are tons of threads on this forum regarding emissions.
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Old 08-24-2020, 04:42 AM   #65
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If I'm not mistaken a true pre-emissions engine is pre-2003. I believe EGR was mandated that year and EGR can cause problems just as well as DPF (2007) and DEF (2012).
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Old 08-24-2020, 06:31 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jzack View Post
My Cummins manual actually states to pull the fuel relay and crank the engine for a certain amount of time after storage to prevent a dry start. I like to use Lucas Oil Stabilizer to prevent a dry start condition instead. I don't believe you will have oil pressure immediately upon start up after long term storage.
How much storage time before you need to do this? Over 6 months? 1 month? Can you post a copy of that section from your Cummins manual? What engine size are you talking about?

I was a diesel mechanic for 30 years (retired now) and I have never heard this. However, I'm sure there are plenty of things I never heard about.

These big diesel engines create oil pressure so fast, that some manufacturers (i.e. Cat) want you to install the oil filter dry. It is printed (to not to pre-fill) on the filter itself. But that's for a normal oil/filter change - perhaps that doesn't apply to engine coming out of long term storage.

I have not been able to find any info from the engine manufacture on this. I've been searching the internet for confirmation. I can only find posts in forums (opinions about filling or not filling oil filters) - and nothing about cranking the engine to build oil pressure before starting it.

Maybe the small diesel engines (Cummins 5.9 and similar size) are different than the larger engines in this regard.

Many modern diesel engines use "high pressure oil to actuate the injectors" (i.e. HEUI) so they wont start until there is oil pressure. So no need to print anything about it in a manual, as that is the only way it works.

So how do you prevent the engine from starting on one of these big diesel engines? What relay are you pulling? There is no "fuel relay" on these larger diesel engines (they don't have electric fuel pumps).

I agree that some of the oil in the galleys and head will drain back to pan over time, but I just don't buy that the engine is going "dry" (at least not after 3 or 4 months of sitting). I've taken apart engines that were sitting in the shop yard for months and they had plenty of oil in the top end and galleys.

Of course I don't know everything. I don't want to sound like I'm arguing here.
I'm here to learn and share - so if you have anything on this from Cummins or Detroit or Volvo, post a copy.
Thanks
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Old 08-24-2020, 07:43 PM   #67
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Cummins start procedure.

CountryB-
Here you go. It was in the Cummins section of my Freightliner manual. I believe the point of this procedure is to build up a thicker film of oil on load bearing surfaces before startup. I've heard before that the vast majority of engine wear happens at startup. This is because the engine rotates several revolutions with virtually no oil pressure. Add that up over many start cycles and well you get the picture.
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File Type: pdf Cummins Start.pdf (294.3 KB, 4 views)
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Old 08-25-2020, 06:07 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jzack View Post
CountryB-
Here you go. It was in the Cummins section of my Freightliner manual. I believe the point of this procedure is to build up a thicker film of oil on load bearing surfaces before startup. I've heard before that the vast majority of engine wear happens at startup. This is because the engine rotates several revolutions with virtually no oil pressure. Add that up over many start cycles and well you get the picture.
Thanks for posting that.
So they want you to do this after engine has been off for more than 3 days. That's crazy.
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Old 08-25-2020, 01:31 PM   #69
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I have run 2 Prevost's, an XL and a H3, almost 200k miles each. The biggest shortfall is there are only 7 Prevost service centers in the US. In "nowhere" Canada the fan clutch failed and I had a new one in 2 days. Spending 20 years in a Prevost spoiled me, they are a commercial vehicle designed to carry passengers. Unfortunately Prevost quit making 40' shells in 2004. My wife decided she wanted a shorter RV and her only comment about the new one is that it is not a Prevost.
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Old 08-25-2020, 03:29 PM   #70
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DEF and EGR have transformed almost all diesel engines into Money Pits.
Our New Commercial trucks break down more then older units ever have.

We have quite a few older PRE-DEF and NON-EGR units that keep trucking
and cause us ZERO down time on the road. We maint. all of our equipment and it is always the NEW trucks that break down on the road.
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