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Old 02-11-2020, 12:46 AM   #15
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Sounds like you're a candidate for a home made conversion


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Old 02-11-2020, 02:06 AM   #16
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See my responses in blue below

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Why donít they:

1. Put the shower enclosure all the way up to the ceiling? There is room for a decent height shower but they stop the enclosure 2 feet or more from the ceiling and leave me crouching to wash my hair.

The height of the enclosure should not determine if you can stand. Making the enclosure go from floor to ceiling would create issues as the coach flexes going down the road.

2. Have 4500 watts of solar on most RVs?

Real estate. Even if you had nothing else on the roof, you would run out of space.

3. Use lithium house batteries.

Manufacturers donít want the extra cost. It would be nice if they made these an option along with a solar controller and maybe 1200 watts of solar panels. Call it the boondocker package.

4. Put toilets up higher so you do not have to squat down so much to sit on them. We did this in our home and it is wonderful.

More comfortable, less healthy.

5. Have more and larger windows.

Some folks like more wall space. Options abound.

6. All have swivel front seats that become part of your living area.

This is a deal breaker for my wife. I would prefer an air ride seat even if it wonít spin.

7. Have access to ďbasementĒ storage bays form inside the RV?

If you have that much stuff that you canít get the essentials in the coach proper, you may need to visit a scale.

8. Include sturdier step well covers. Many or most of the used RV we looked at the stepwell covers no longer work properly and the new ones look like they will break tomorrow. They are all so thin and cheaply made cheap motors plastic gears etc.

Not everybody can afford a high end DP. As in cars, the more affordable units have to make compromises along the way. Just donít buy the Yugo.

9. Combine grey and black water tanks?

Why? Only works with a composting toilet. If you put a valve at the end of your dump tube, you can easily combine your tanks. Cheap DIY task.

10. Have a seat belt restraint like thing for the bed so if someone is sleeping while the other is driving they do not get killed in an accident.

Anything that would actually work would be a PITA to the sleeper. THBS, semi tractors with team drivers must have something that works and the safety nazis in DC approved. Then again, their bed is smaller so pith only 1 open side.

11. Use automatic or push button tinting for the windows, so you can have privacy or keep out heat, but then see out clearly when you want to see out.

Day shades are available. If your coach does not have them, you can add them. Some folks prefer those pleated monstrosities.

12. Have windows that open (some do, but most seem to not). Especially on the driverís side.

Some are structural components. Fixed windows stand less chance of leaking.

13. Have a driverís door?

I agree this would be nice. Especially in a DP so you donít have to wake the passenger at a refueling stop.

14. Have a reinforced (aluminum?) walkway/deck on the roof?

Would make more sense to have this as a structural component flush with the roof. Weight & cost will limit appeal.

15. Have skylights? I know they can get hot in some places, but you can easily have covers.

I thought you wanted a solar farm in the roof. Canít have both...

16. Include tie down rings here and there like they do in the bed of a pickup truck so you can tie down inside items (like a big parrot cage) when you are traveling.

You want a toy hauler. Most folks donít want to be walking on tie down rings all the time.

17. Paint in basic two or three tone colors without tacky swirls?

Custom order your rig. If the manufacturer wonít paint it your way, take it in white and find someone to paint or wrap it.

18. Have rear windows (except on a very few exceptions).

Why. Letís in light to the bedroom. You do realize when it is dark outside and you have a light on inside, folks can see in, right?

19. All use adjustable beds that can become a couch during the day?

Do you really want to sleep on a pull out bed all the time?

20. More frequently have a pull down bed in the wasted space over the driverís and passengerís head (We saw this once and it was on a junky Thor).

Weight and just something else to break. Might have appeal to families traveling, but couples traveling might not want the weight, cost, maintenance, look of such a thing.

21. All use a removable induction range instead of gas. It is so much safer and you can cook stinky stuff outside.

Why? I have induction at home and like it quite a lot, but if you want all that solar and lithium batteries, that suggests boondocking and gas is easier to come by than electrons in most cases. If you want to cook induction outside, you can get a ďburnerĒ fairly cheaply.

22. Use CB radios much anymore?

CB is yesterdayís news. Go with ham or GMRS if you want to talk. If you just want to talk to pass the time, go digital ham and you can talk to the world while motoring down the road or in a camp site.
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:37 AM   #17
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Items 1, 6, 8, 12, 13 and 15 were all included on our 2004 Itasca Sunrise. It's hard to believe they're not on many (or most) newer motorhomes as well.

Oh, and we have a CB radio (#22) as well but I haven't used a CB since the '70's!
I misspoke when I stated our MH had step well covers (#8) since it most certainly does not. I must've either had a senior moment or my typing skills are seriously deficient.
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:29 AM   #18
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Thank you for your responses. I should have been clear that these are all things we have seen on some motorhomes, except the seatbelt for the bed. So, they are all possible. That is why I do no understand why they are not more common.

A couple of comments or explanations:

The height of the shower, determines the height of the shower-head. The showerhead cannot stick up much above the enclosure as it will soak the wall above the enclosure. Most RVs have enclosures that end below the top of my head and thus, heaving a shower head actually above my head when I am standing is not possible. If I were to shower wile standing, the water bouncing off my head would be soaking the walls. A few RVs have enclosures that go all the way up or at least most of the way up. These few have tall enough showers for me to stand under. It is more common in 5th wheels with rear bedrooms, but it is also found in some motor homes. I will likely have to have a custom shower enclosure. It is less than 10% that have tall enough showers for me to stand up under them. I do not understand why they are almost all so low

WE have seen three Motorhomes with 4500 watts of solar. One of them you had to put two panels out on the ground after you set up. The other two I am not sure.

Even most high end DPs have cheapo motors, gears and panels for the stepwell cover. For some reason they almost all go really cheap here.

I do not understand the comment that combined grey/black tanks only work with composting toilets. Why do you think that? We have seen a few RVs that have combined tanks and the owners claim it makes flushing out the tanks much easier and also allows them greater overall capacity. They have normal toilets. From what I can find, the separate grey water tank is a throwback where some places allowed ground dumping of grey water. I do not think that is allowed anywhere now, and if it were allowed, I would not want to do it.

Tie down rings would be on the walls near the floor and ceiling and can be concealed under trim, just like in the bed of a pickup. They do not go in the floor. There are more items than just a big parrot cage I would want to be able to tie down. A number of motorhomes have loose dining chairs and desk chairs. In fact we far prefer the lose chair style to the ones that have booths. I would not want all those chairs flying around in a fast stop.

WE have always preferred bedrooms with lots of natural light. If we need privacy, we close the curtains or shades (or shutters in our current house). Some Motorhomes have wonderful light in the bedroom. Others have only a few tiny windows. With tiny windows there is no option for people who like light, but with bigger and more windows in the bedroom you get both options. People who want privacy and pull the shades. Seems like you can appeal to a broader audience by having more light as an option. More light people are happy and less light people can make a cave by simply pulling the shades, you can please both preferences. However if you have few/small windows, more natural light is simply not an option WE immediately stop looking at an RV with a cave like bedroom. However I doubt people walk aaway fomr an RV There was not significant difference in storage in RVs with lots of light in the bedroom and RVs with cave bedrooms. the cave versions just had blank walls where the windows were in th rare more light versions. This is a big one for my wife, her favorite pastime is to lay in bed and read.

That is the same reason to have a bed that is adjustable. You can move the bed into a seated position and use it like a daybed or a futon, except that it is a normal mattress and fully comfortable bed. Also for me it would be great because I have to sleep with a big pillow under my upper legs to avoid back problems in the morning. We have seen a few RVs with those kind of beds and they are great, but I imagine they add some cost and weight. They are not a pull out couch, but an actual bed with a hinged frame and mattress. We have only seen them in high end RVs and sometimes sin some Thor products.

I am uncomfortable cooking with a gas flame in such a small space, especially with only one exit. I would prefer not to carry around explosive substances wither. Further gas line eventually leak. That is extremely dangerous both for risk of explosion and asphyxiation. Electric can be provided by solar and a diesel generator and diesel is not flammable, so it is much safer. I expect all RVs will be all electric soon, i do not understand why it did not happen sooner.

I love CBs. I think it is neat to be able to talk tot he people right next to you. I have not used on in decades though. Do truckers still use them?

We have not looked much at Itasca. That is Winnebago correct? Are all Itascas gas powered? How does Winnebago quality compare to Monaco/Beaver/HR or Newmar?
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Old 02-12-2020, 02:51 PM   #19
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Interesting post.....
Solar panels would be the roof.....when was the last time you heard of solar panels leaking?
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Old 02-12-2020, 04:06 PM   #20
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A lot of the things you would like I would move on to a different coach.
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Old 02-12-2020, 04:26 PM   #21
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THEY haven't figured out how to make a black/grey tank sensor work yet...

Good luck with the other things.
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Old 02-12-2020, 05:37 PM   #22
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Yes, truckers still use CBs but not as much as they used to.

When combining black and grey tanks I would worry about sewer gas getting past the p-traps when using the sink or shower. We have this issue in a basement bathroom that uses a lift-station in our house.
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Old 02-13-2020, 03:12 AM   #23
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See below.

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Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Thank you for your responses. I should have been clear that these are all things we have seen on some motorhomes, except the seatbelt for the bed. So, they are all possible. That is why I do no understand why they are not more common.

A couple of comments or explanations:

The height of the shower, determines the height of the shower-head. The showerhead cannot stick up much above the enclosure as it will soak the wall above the enclosure. Most RVs have enclosures that end below the top of my head and thus, heaving a shower head actually above my head when I am standing is not possible. If I were to shower wile standing, the water bouncing off my head would be soaking the walls. A few RVs have enclosures that go all the way up or at least most of the way up. These few have tall enough showers for me to stand under. It is more common in 5th wheels with rear bedrooms, but it is also found in some motor homes. I will likely have to have a custom shower enclosure. It is less than 10% that have tall enough showers for me to stand up under them. I do not understand why they are almost all so low

I am 6í5Ē, so I feel your pain. There are many RVís we walk into and walk right out due to headroom. Height of ceilings, and especially showers is one of the first things I look at. If they are too short, thatís it. Lance and Airstream are both nice lines, but too short. I just go elsewhere. There are options.

WE have seen three Motorhomes with 4500 watts of solar. One of them you had to put two panels out on the ground after you set up. The other two I am not sure.

Interesting. Big 5ers or MH? Also, were they angled or flat on the roof?

Even most high end DPs have cheapo motors, gears and panels for the stepwell cover. For some reason they almost all go really cheap here.

I have not tested enough of these to have much of an opinion. But the ones I have looked at seriously are in DPs and are meant to give the passenger a floorboard while seated. The op few I have tested worked just fine and in the DP range, we are in the used market.

I do not understand the comment that combined grey/black tanks only work with composting toilets. Why do you think that? We have seen a few RVs that have combined tanks and the owners claim it makes flushing out the tanks much easier and also allows them greater overall capacity. They have normal toilets. From what I can find, the separate grey water tank is a throwback where some places allowed ground dumping of grey water. I do not think that is allowed anywhere now, and if it were allowed, I would not want to do it.

You can combine your grey and black tanks with the trick I stated above. Sure, itís not the same as having all waste in one tank, but it does give you more ďoverall capacityĒ. you do run the risk of turds being the last thing out, so cleaning out the hose might be a thing. Either way, for a few bucks you can do this. Just put a dump valve right where the hose connects and open the other valves.

Tie down rings would be on the walls near the floor and ceiling and can be concealed under trim, just like in the bed of a pickup. They do not go in the floor. There are more items than just a big parrot cage I would want to be able to tie down. A number of motorhomes have loose dining chairs and desk chairs. In fact we far prefer the lose chair style to the ones that have booths. I would not want all those chairs flying around in a fast stop.

Yes, wall tie downs can work for light items like dining room chairs, but simple physics suggests that for tying down Heavi items, your best results will be with aloof-mounted tie downs. There is a reason toy haulers have them in the floor.

WE have always preferred bedrooms with lots of natural light. If we need privacy, we close the curtains or shades (or shutters in our current house). Some Motorhomes have wonderful light in the bedroom. Others have only a few tiny windows. With tiny windows there is no option for people who like light, but with bigger and more windows in the bedroom you get both options. People who want privacy and pull the shades. Seems like you can appeal to a broader audience by having more light as an option. More light people are happy and less light people can make a cave by simply pulling the shades, you can please both preferences. However if you have few/small windows, more natural light is simply not an option WE immediately stop looking at an RV with a cave like bedroom. However I doubt people walk aaway fomr an RV There was not significant difference in storage in RVs with lots of light in the bedroom and RVs with cave bedrooms. the cave versions just had blank walls where the windows were in th rare more light versions. This is a big one for my wife, her favorite pastime is to lay in bed and read.

Ever watched the lengths folks have to go to to get sleep on an Alaska summer trip? Itís more than just pulling down the shades. This is a DS, DF issue. Iím glad there are options.

That is the same reason to have a bed that is adjustable. You can move the bed into a seated position and use it like a daybed or a futon, except that it is a normal mattress and fully comfortable bed. Also for me it would be great because I have to sleep with a big pillow under my upper legs to avoid back problems in the morning. We have seen a few RVs with those kind of beds and they are great, but I imagine they add some cost and weight. They are not a pull out couch, but an actual bed with a hinged frame and mattress. We have only seen them in high end RVs and sometimes sin some Thor products.

As you point out, cost & weight. You could retro fit such a bed to many RVs if you really want one, but you are probably only going to be successful in a 5er, Super C or Class A due to the weight. Many folks donít want the cost or complexity and have other ideas of what to do with their CCC.

I am uncomfortable cooking with a gas flame in such a small space, especially with only one exit. I would prefer not to carry around explosive substances wither. Further gas line eventually leak. That is extremely dangerous both for risk of explosion and asphyxiation. Electric can be provided by solar and a diesel generator and diesel is not flammable, so it is much safer. I expect all RVs will be all electric soon, i do not understand why it did not happen sooner.

Ever priced out an Aqua Go unit? While they are nice when they work, they are expensive and add a relatively big (and relatively expensive) chore to the maintenance schedule compared to a gas unit. they are also more likely to be on the squawk list for maintenance than a gas/tank unit.

As for the kitchen, Iím not sure what the induction cooktop for RVs pulls, but we needed a 40 amp circuit for ours at home. Given that I am not really looking at full electric coaches, I am not sure but are they even going full electric in a 30 amp unit?


I love CBs. I think it is neat to be able to talk tot he people right next to you. I have not used on in decades though. Do truckers still use them?

I was a big CBer back in the day, Ď70s & Ď80s. They are relatively dead these days. Digital ham is where you can find consistent action, but you are not getting local road/bear reports. The smart phone with apps like wayz and others have filled the local info niche. With digital Ham, you can get crystal clear signals from around the world. It is fun.

We have not looked much at Itasca. That is Winnebago correct? Are all Itascas gas powered? How does Winnebago quality compare to Monaco/Beaver/HR or Newmar?

I believe Itasca is a Winnebago line. I donít know the answer to whether Itasca are all gassers, but I canít recall seeing a DP with their name on it.

As to Winnebago quality, that all depends on how you define quality. Are you talking about quality is the % of time all factory installed items are operating as designed or does the bling factor enter into yhe equation? In other words, would an Itasca that works as designed 100% of the time be of equal quality to a Prevost that also works As designed 100% of the time. to answer your question, quality needs to be defined. Newmar, however is now a Winnebago line, so I guess it is Winnebago quality by definition.
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Old 02-13-2020, 08:07 AM   #24
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Motor home builders build to what people want and can afford. That changes over time. Most of your wants are either options or most folks don't want it or want to pay for it.
My only comments are on the step well cover and opening windows, both of which I have. The step well cover on mine is sturdy and operated by an electric hydraulic motor.
I have opening windows and could not imagine an RV without them. I do realize many new MH don't.

I personally would not want a drop down bed between the pilot & co-pilot.
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Old 02-13-2020, 03:14 PM   #25
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WE have seen three Motorhomes with 4500 watts of solar. One of them you had to put two panels out on the ground after you set up. The other two I am not sure.
So it's the whole roof and two big panels?
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:49 AM   #26
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ALL Motor vehicle manufacturers Rely on Surveys. They also target a specific clientele. So if they have multiple lines, they are able to widen their clientele base. Not all RV'ers are interested in Roughing it. And not all RV'rs are interested in having a Bellaggio/Ceasars palace on wheels. I for example don't really need Solar, because I ONLY, Exclusively, spend my time in RV Resorts. Every product line has a budget. And at the basis of everything is Cost. Now, that being said you also want to listen to your Engineers right? if not why hire them and pay them so much.
You say you Want more windows, but how energy efficient would that be. Same applies to more "Openings" in your floors (openings increase loss of heat and A/c).
Your Moho or 5er or TT, are moving vehicles, they move a lot, every part is affected by motion. 1 reason you don't build the shower glass all the way to the ceiling is because you'd then have to fasten it to the ceiling, with time those ceiling screws would loosen and moisture would seep into the perforations and you could eventually have a mold problem. Now if your willing to shell out the bucks and ask the manufacturer to give you the best vapor barrier and what not in the business, I'm sure they'll be happy to accommodate you. Just like with most things you mention on your list, if you Pay they'll Play.
But through the market research and surveys they've taken they have found that the Masses are pleased with the products they offer. And that's where their focus is. Unfortunately Folks like you, that according to their surveys are far and few between, have to pay more and customize to get those must haves on their wish list.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:00 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
As we search for our Ideal full time Class A DP, we find some things the are in only a tiny percentage of motor homes or none and cannot understand why they are not more common. Probably someone here can explain some of these things.

Why donít they:

1. Put the shower enclosure all the way up to the ceiling? There is room for a decent height shower but they stop the enclosure 2 feet or more from the ceiling and leave me crouching to wash my hair.

2. Have 4500 watts of solar on most RVs?

3. Use lithium house batteries.

4. Put toilets up higher so you do not have to squat down so much to sit on them. We did this in our home and it is wonderful.

5. Have more and larger windows.

6. All have swivel front seats that become part of your living area.

7. Have access to ďbasementĒ storage bays form inside the RV?

8. Include sturdier step well covers. Many or most of the used RV we looked at the stepwell covers no longer work properly and the new ones look like they will break tomorrow. They are all so thin and cheaply made cheap motors plastic gears etc.

9. Combine grey and black water tanks?

10. Have a seat belt restraint like thing for the bed so if someone is sleeping while the other is driving they do not get killed in an accident.

11. Use automatic or push button tinting for the windows, so you can have privacy or keep out heat, but then see out clearly when you want to see out.

12. Have windows that open (some do, but most seem to not). Especially on the driverís side.

13. Have a driverís door?

14. Have a reinforced (aluminum?) walkway/deck on the roof?

15. Have skylights? I know they can get hot in some places, but you can easily have covers.

16. Include tie down rings here and there like they do in the bed of a pickup truck so you can tie down inside items (like a big parrot cage) when you are traveling.

17. Paint in basic two or three tone colors without tacky swirls?

18. Have rear windows (except on a very few exceptions).

19. All use adjustable beds that can become a couch during the day?

20. More frequently have a pull down bed in the wasted space over the driverís and passengerís head (We saw this once and it was on a junky Thor).

21. All use a removable induction range instead of gas. It is so much safer and you can cook stinky stuff outside.

22. Use CB radios much anymore?

money!
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Old 02-20-2020, 01:24 PM   #28
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"Interesting. Big 5ers or MH? Also, were they angled or flat on the roof?"

The one I remember best was a bus type like Prevost. They had two rows of panels on each side, they leaned against each other like a long Teepee. Then two more teepees sat on the ground with cords. I think they folded down and the extras stored on the roof when underway. They said the panels were the newest and greatest (most powerful). The other two I did not pay a lot of attention. They just said that is what they had. I just thought ti was neat that you could run fully on solar.



The idea behind the combined tanks according to the owners. is to increase capacity. You will eventually fill up either black or grey and have to go pump out even though one is still partly empty. If they are combined, you are never going to fill one more than the other. They said it also drains better because there is more liquid in with the sewage.

I like the idea of boondocking. I want to be able to go where ii want and stop when I want (obviously within limits). I also have a number of relatives with farmland we could park on once in a while. My wife is somewhat indifferent about it. She mostly needs a light, a book and a chair or bed to read in.

"There is a reason toy haulers have them in the floor." In my pickup, they are in the sidewalls. I have fastened some really heavy things to them (like 600 pounds). I thought it would work the same in an RV. Thinking about it, it would probably only work that way in a bus type with steel walls.


"As you point out, cost & weight. You could retro fit such a bed to many RVs if you really want one, but you are probably only going to be successful in a 5er, Super C or Class A due to the weight. Many folks donít want the cost or complexity and have other ideas of what to do with their CCC."

I found one that can be fitted in. It costs about $3000 and the mattress is another $2000. Expensive. Not super heavy though. I think it was 125 pounds. tome a bed it possibly the most important place to spend extra money. It is so vital to your health.

The Entregras (new ones) have a 2 burner induction stove that just pops out with a simple click. Super safe, clean and easy to take outside and plug in to an extension cord (a heavv one). I am fascinated by induction cooktops anyway. They are really neat, especially now that they have been made more practical. I have no idea how much power they use. I assume we would have a 10K or larger generator. Shouldn't that be enough for induction?


Too bad about CB radio. I was interested in talking to people on the road with me, not distant people. We used one to travel way back in the 1980s and it was a great tool. truckers were bored and loved to talk and especially loved to be helpful.


"As to Winnebago quality, that all depends on how you define quality. Are you talking about quality is the % of time all factory installed items are operating as designed or does the bling factor enter into yhe equation? In other words, would an Itasca that works as designed 100% of the time be of equal quality to a Prevost that also works As designed 100% of the time. to answer your question, quality needs to be defined. Newmar, however is now a Winnebago line, so I guess it is Winnebago quality by definition."

To me quality means sturdiness and good craftsmanship. Things that open smoothly and close tightly. Made to last and take a beating. I do not like bling. Especially hate mirrors on the ceiling. I do not want to spend all of my time fixing things. We have always lived in historic homes and I have always have a never ending "fix it" list. I am aware there will be a lot of things to fix, but I want to minimize them. Have some time in between fixing things to go do stuff.

Right now I am most interested in an early 2000s Royal Provost. Royal is the only Prevost I have seen that does not look like a hospital room, a commercial office, or a hotel inside (or Liberace's bedroom in some cases). My wife is still captivated by the Monaco/Beaver/HR interiors. Very homey and extremely well thought out use of space.

Prevost may remain out of our price range. I like the fact they are so sturdy and well made. Not likely to break as much, especially major issues like slides (because they are mounted in a steel body rather than a fiberglass box). I was also under the impression that Prevost allows a lot more carrying capacity (weight wise) and towing along with a better ride. I may be wrong about that. Still investigating.

There are some fairly heavy things I would like to bring along if possible in addition to normal stuff.. We intend to tow a Jeep gladiator with a dual kayak rack and probably bicycles in the bed. I would also like to have a couple of bales of compressed straw and a wood butt (for throwing atlatl and axes/knives respectively). I would also like to bring an erg (concept II rowing machine) that I would place outside when docked.

We may end up with a trailer, but want to at least try without and see how things go.



Probably not the chickens though. I do not think that is going to work.
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