Wouldn't it be cheaper to build them right

[featherlite]

so what ever happened to if something is not working right you fix it

why should we have someone else fix it

but yes they should not fall apart as fast as they do

dave

[Scarab0088]

Originally Posted by featherlite

so what ever happened to if something is not working right you fix it

why should we have someone else fix it

but yes they should not fall apart as fast as they do

dave

Me thinks this question is very significant to this thread.

It seems that handy-skills are a disappearing art in America. As recently as the early 80's, it was very common, at least in our neighborhood for owners to do the "routine tune-up" (points and condenser, plugs, maybe a new distributor cap and plug wires - with a timing light check).

And, why call an electrician to change a broken light switch or call a plumber for a clogged drain?

Does anyone still change their own motor oil anymore?
Well, we do. Same basic skills are very useful on the RV.

Modern RV's are amazing things...a house on wheels that can fly down the highway at 70

Safe Travels

[Solo_RV_Guy]

Originally Posted by Scarab0088

Me thinks this question is very significant to this thread.

It seems that handy-skills are a disappearing art in America. As recently as the early 80's, it was very common, at least in our neighborhood for owners to do the "routine tune-up" (points and condenser, plugs, maybe a new distributor cap and plug wires - with a timing light check).

And, why call an electrician to change a broken light switch or call a plumber for a clogged drain?

Does anyone still change their own motor oil anymore?
Well, we do. Same basic skills are very useful on the RV.

Modern RV's are amazing things...a house on wheels that can fly down the highway at 70

Safe Travels

That's a good observation. I grew up mostly in a big city but my family came from the farms of the Central Plains. Helping both grandfathers on their farms was part of my "vacation" every year. I'm mechanically inclined (I got good at swapping E150 rear ends on the side of the road, thanks to accommodating tow services) but as vehicles got more complex my ability and inclination to repair diminished. For most service it's to my financial advantage (still working full time) to pay for that service.


Part of retiring, to me, means not carrying carpentry and electrical tools (other than a few basic items) in order to continue my retirement. That probably makes me an outlier here, but behind me are "kids" that have never changed oil, replaced spark plugs or done a driveway brake job... and for them, the initial quality of RVs WILL be an issue.



Perhaps not in what is left of my lifetime, but I expect these younger folks to get federal legislation passed that will require motorhome brands to have warranty service available at all dealers with facilities regardless of place of purchase and to have penalties for dealers that give lower priority to non-customers who need warranty service.


I have some other predictions (that nifty Digital Crystal Ball works best with an outdoor antenna!) but will save those for more topical threads.

[TonyMac]

When I look at the lack of quality, which is the definition of professionalism, I get some satisfaction that economic Darwinism has fallen upon these people. Their Coberg OR factory no longer produces motorhomes, most have lost their jobs, their property values went to about zero, because they thought we owed them a job and an income and a future. They didn't realize, and maybe haven't figured it out yet, that nobody owes them anything except the fruits of their labor. Using a 3" screws when pop rivits are called for, 0" of slack in the icemaker line, failed to connect the step cover to its mechanism, sawdust and assembly waste under counters and furniture, floor under the 300 pound washing machine made of 1/8" plywood, center support under the master closet not connected in the rear, oil fill installed in an unusable location, coolant reservoir installed in an unusable location, transmission fill in the bedroom, interior engine hatch should have extended into master closet; the list is for too long to conclude anything but those responsible are a bunch of unprofessional hacks and deserve unemployment.

[Scarab0088]

Originally Posted by TonyMac

When I look at the lack of quality, which is the definition of professionalism, I get some satisfaction that economic Darwinism has fallen upon these people. Their Coberg OR factory no longer produces motorhomes, most have lost their jobs, their property values went to about zero, because they thought we owed them a job and an income and a future. ...

Guessing you are talking about Marathon Coach...Coberg, OR?

My understanding was that the Oregon facility WAS the primary build facility...toured there a few years back:
https://www.marathoncoach.com/contact/
And that TX and FL are only sales and service.

This is supported by their employment site, needing many trades in OR (?)
https://www.marathoncoach.com/employment/
And their factory tours site...in Coberg:
https://www.marathoncoach.com/factory-tours/

And, having relations near Coberg, being just North of Eugene, I submit the area is doing quite well for most segments of the population.

Different factory or...?
Please share

Thanks

[TonyMac]

Originally Posted by Scarab0088

Guessing you are talking about Marathon Coach...Coberg, OR?

No, I was talking about Safari/Monaco/Rev. They actually had to bend the hinges of the screen door to miss the stupid screws they used to hold the magnet switch. The screws they used to attach the power section for the outside tv went 1/2" up through the floor.

Maybe I'm spoiled, but aviation maintenance proves to me it can be done.

[dmctlc]

I've posted not only my issues but my displeasure of the Dealer's Service dept. and the FR. The Dealer blames it on the Manufacturer and the Manufacturer blames it on the dealer. In fact if I'm not mistaken FR will not pay a dealer for any warranty work more than once. Great idea but when I received my Motorhome I found the QA inspection from the factory and all the issues on it I still had when I received it. Meaning they did not fix it... Tell me how that happens. I had things from AC unit's leaking constantly inside, Slides locking out, hanging, doors falling off, undercarraige wiring so low it was dangerous and many other issues too many to list. I'm very handy but some things they needed to fix so it spent months last year in the dealer. FR brags about American Built but they neglect to allow the time to do it right. Unfortunately the problem is the competition isn't coming from overseas, like the 70's when the Japanese Quality turned the American auto industry to do a 180 it's in USA and the almighty dollar rules. Lemon Laws would be a great first step but it starts at the top, the drive for profit instead of pride needs to change. FR Director of Quality tells you to write him but after 3 times I gave up though it wasn't unexpected. There's good US companies that care and then there's the others! I've heard same issues whether it's a $150K Class A or a $500K or higher. I'm sure most, if not all the workers really care but if you want a job you stay in line Until it hurts them in profits by people either stop buying or keep pressuring them they won't change and if you want a job you stay in line.
Next time I buy used instead of new. MH has a great layout and really like it. Thanks for listening...

[EdnKat]

Originally Posted by larliebler

I was just wondering, with the cost of warranty repairs you would think that that RV manufacturers would want to build them right the first time? I obviously don't have the means to do a cost analysis, but I'm assuming that it's still cheaper for the RV makers to just crank em out then to build them right the first time. It seems to me that if more RV manufacturers adhered to better quality the competition would force the issue, kinda like the US auto industry when the Japanese cars were forcing American cars to up their quality standards. I guess if everybody's quality is sub-par then where is the incentive to change? I know some are better than others, but for the most part they all could do a much better job. Yes this is somewhat rhetorical, but I though it was some food for thought. Probably something that every RV owner has pondered at some point, unless of course you have won the RV lottery.

An old saying I heard many, many years ago: "There's never enough time to do it right, but, always enough time to do it over." Seems to apply to the RV industry.

[tbillet]

Originally Posted by featherlite

I second that with out unit 2000 Featherlite

I think its all about throwing them together as fast as they can to get the rvs out the door like most things built today

dave

AND those that try to build a quantity product have lesser margins, and end up being acquired by the corner cutters (I.E. Thor).

[rkbeasley]

You are correct. They are paid by the unit basically. Once complete so many units per day they get to go home.
Butthe quality control people are friends and relatives of the production people. If quality control finds a problem that slows down production. Kind of like letting the fox walk watch the chicken house.

I have had good luck with Jayco / Highland Ridge / Mesa Ridge. I haven't had too many trouble and the customer service has been great.

[Durango382]

Interesting reading...
First - I have met Newell owners that have had their share of troubles - like most of the other mfr's, Newell buys many components from other mfr's who only make components (are you aware of just how many things in many RVs are mfr'd by Lippert, or I should say companies owned by Lippert?) - and those components fail in Newells just as easily as they do in less-costly rigs.

But now more in line with the OPs opening statement...
I currently own/drive two RevRV products, a 2018 Dream and a 2018 Patriot. I have previously owned seven new Fleetwood (the predecessor to RevRV) coaches, and I can honestly say that my current Dream has had the least amount of issues of any - which would tend to say that they are getting better in the manufacturing of their products. (I don't have enough miles/time on the Patriot to say much about it, other than so far, only a couple issues)
But in truth, there can be and are other reasons why this Dream is the best coach I've had so far - and that small a sampling (8 total) just isn't enough to make too many unequivocally strong statements. But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say they are getting better.
But we have to remember these things are built by humans, not robots, and given that they use a lot of barely-skilled workers (it's hard to keep the factory fully staffed - it's hard work) to build too few alike to become super proficient at any one thing. Being more acutely aware of this mfr's products, I can say that they are trying, starting at the top, but the business is very tenuous and unlike residential housing that is more a necessity than a luxury like these coaches, they are a bit gun-shy to invest too (relative) much without a sure return on that investment...
Oh yes, I've also had new bumper pull and fifth wheel trailers, and I can see the evolution in those too, although my sampling of any one mfr is less (the most - have had three Keystone products).
Bottom line - there is improvement that has occurred, but they're still a long ways away from the quality level of a new car or pickup. But remember all the differences in those two types of vehicles - RVs have a lot more parts and pieces, and are built by human hands almost entirely. I have almost forgotten the quality level the American auto industry accepted in the seventies, but in many ways the RV industry is at about that same level today. Will they get to the level the auto industry is today (which is still far from perfect) in my lifetime?...Probably not, given the far fewer units produced and the more volatile market of the RV industry.
But I accept that since it beats the alternative (not having an RV).

[notewriter]

Originally Posted by featherlite

I second that with out unit 2000 Featherlite

I think its all about throwing them together as fast as they can to get the rvs out the door like most things built today

dave

Yep, Our 2013 Keystone Montana was one of those where the factory was in a hurry to get things done and used too short of sub roof staples which came up under the TPO rubber roof. We contacted Keystone for months and even after one of their authorized repair facilities acknowledged the sub roof failure (Per their request), Keystone conveniently put us off until the warrantee expired and then denied the claim. We even had "Trailer Life Magazine" get involved, but "Keystone" wouldn't even give them the courtesy of a reply.
"We'll never buy another Keystone product again or advise anyone else to do so..."

[Ray,IN]

Originally Posted by Scarab0088

Me thinks this question is very significant to this thread.

It seems that handy-skills are a disappearing art in America. As recently as the early 80's, it was very common, at least in our neighborhood for owners to do the "routine tune-up" (points and condenser, plugs, maybe a new distributor cap and plug wires - with a timing light check).

And, why call an electrician to change a broken light switch or call a plumber for a clogged drain?

Does anyone still change their own motor oil anymore?
Well, we do. Same basic skills are very useful on the RV.

Modern RV's are amazing things...a house on wheels that can fly down the highway at 70

Safe Travels

A good friend and neighbor has been an auto mechanic since graduating from high school. He said he was talking to a representative from Ford one day, talking about the coming computerization and compelxity of automobiles. The Ford rep told him Ford's long range plan was to design and build their vehicles so the owner had to go to a Ford repair shop to have anything repaired in/on their Ford vehicle. Looks like the entire auto industry followed suit.


Back to the OP's remarks; the answer for him is to NOT buy one that doesn't pass his standards. Same goes for everyone else considering buying an new RV.

[paultho72]

Originally Posted by larliebler

I was just wondering, with the cost of warranty repairs you would think that that RV manufacturers would want to build them right the first time? I obviously don't have the means to do a cost analysis, but I'm assuming that it's still cheaper for the RV makers to just crank em out then to build them right the first time. It seems to me that if more RV manufacturers adhered to better quality the competition would force the issue, kinda like the US auto industry when the Japanese cars were forcing American cars to up their quality standards. I guess if everybody's quality is sub-par then where is the incentive to change? I know some are better than others, but for the most part they all could do a much better job. Yes this is somewhat rhetorical, but I though it was some food for thought. Probably something that every RV owner has pondered at some point, unless of course you have won the RV lottery.

Couldn't agree with you any more! I've given up on Tiffin. We've owned 3 brand new Tiffins, the last one has been in the shop 2 of the 4 months that we've owned it. The first 2, probably 1/3 of the time we owned them, they were back at LaMesa RV getting warranty items fixed. I'm done with Tiffin!