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Old 02-03-2017, 10:48 AM   #1
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You guys tell me... Does a "Flagship DP" make a difference?

Hi guys, yah it's ol Harry-boy again. Ok, boy is pushing the envelope, just wanted to see if you're paying attention!

As some of you know, RV Business selected the Coachmen Sports Coach as a Top 5 finalist in their 2017 “RV of the Year” awards. Another of the finalists was the Newmar Mountain Aire, a terrific coach with a price tag just under a $$ million dollars. A coach mentioned in the same sentence with the Mountain Aire is high praise indeed me thinks!

Coach builders have their entry level diesel coaches all under 41 feet and are all non-Tag-Axle coaches. Such as the Newmar Ventana LE, Forest River Berkshire, Thor Area etc.

Coachmen took a different direction by making their Sports Coach 400 series as their top of the line flagship coach making significant changes in their 2017.1/2 / 2018 models.

I know a lot about Newmar, I visited their plant in Nappanee, Indiana and it was my coach of choice for a long time. I know with Newmar it doesn’t make a difference if you buy the entry level Ventana LE or the top of the line King Aire. They all go down the same line and are built by the same people!

My question to you good folks is “How important is it that a coach is the flagship of the coach builder”? Do you think it makes an actual difference or it's all a lot about nothin?

Thanks guys,

Harry
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Old 02-03-2017, 10:54 AM   #2
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I can tell you that my 05 Safari (Monaco) has a much higher build quality and better materials than my 2014 Thor had.
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Old 02-03-2017, 11:03 AM   #3
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You guys tell me... Does a "Flagship DP" make a difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WyoFree View Post
Hi guys, yah it's ol Harry-boy again. Ok, boy is pushing the envelope, just wanted to see if you're paying attention!



As some of you know, RV Business selected the Coachmen Sports Coach as a Top 5 finalist in their 2017 “RV of the Year” awards. Another of the finalists was the Newmar Mountain Aire, a terrific coach with a price tag just under a $$ million dollars. A coach mentioned in the same sentence with the Mountain Aire is high praise indeed me thinks!



Coach builders have their entry level diesel coaches all under 41 feet and are all non-Tag-Axle coaches. Such as the Newmar Ventana LE, Forest River Berkshire, Thor Area etc.



Coachmen took a different direction by making their Sports Coach 400 series as their top of the line flagship coach making significant changes in their 2017.1/2 / 2018 models.



I know a lot about Newmar, I visited their plant in Nappanee, Indiana and it was my coach of choice for a long time. I know with Newmar it doesn’t make a difference if you buy the entry level Ventana LE or the top of the line King Aire. They all go down the same line and are built by the same people!



My question to you good folks is “How important is it that a coach is the flagship of the coach builder”? Do you think it makes an actual difference or it's all a lot about nothin?



Thanks guys,



Harry

In the interest of full disclosure, I drive SOB and have never owned a Newmar product. I do however, believe them to have the highest build quality among the "production" coaches. I don't consider Foretravel and Newell to be production. In the Newmar lineup, I consider the Londonaire, Mountainaire and Essex to be their most desirable coaches.

The "flagship" coach may or may not be a good value, as it depends on your specific needs & wants.
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Old 02-03-2017, 11:05 AM   #4
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Marketing marketing and more marketing.
Flagship means they will charge you more and not necessarily give you more value.
I don't like Thor products. But that is just my opinion. Others may and will think otherwise
Caveat emptor
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Old 02-03-2017, 11:40 AM   #5
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Usually the difference in a "flagship" model and the entry level model is materials. Even if they are built on the same line by the same people materials can make a difference in perceived (and actual) quality. A few examples in my mind would be marble vs vinyl floors. In that case I call it perceived quality as vinyl can last as long as marble and in a moving house the marble might crack before the vinyl has an issue. Real wood cabinets vs press board cabinets. That would be a actual quality difference in my mind. Other components can be different ie propane furnace vs Aqua Hot boiler, better fridge, etc.

If they use the same construction technique on the basic structure then there might not be much difference other than cosmetics for instance full body paint vs gel coat and vinyl stripes. Which can be an actual quality difference as paint will outlast vinyl stripes and gel coat can yellow with UV exposure.

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Old 02-03-2017, 11:54 AM   #6
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first of all, what does 'RV of the year' criteria include?? someone's personal opinion? changes from the previous model year? number of coaches sold?... who knows.

- if you are a dealership with only the Coachmen Class A Diesel line, then yes, it sounds like the Sportscoach is your 'flagship' model, and probably your 'RV of the year'...
- if you are a multi line dealership with several DP manufacturers, then it's probably the most expensive coach with the most 'bling' in your Manufacturers portfolio, like the NewmarKingAire, or ACAmericanEagle, or EntegraCornerstone, or TiffinZephyr etc...
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Old 02-03-2017, 05:51 PM   #7
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When I see someone talk about their flagship coach, it would typically be there best coach. In the Newmar line, the King Aire, the old Monaco line would have been the Executive or Signature, Tiffin, the Zephyr. It looks like Sports Coach is only making two models and they're both entry level models. So.......I don't see how they call either of those a "Flagship". Years ago, they did have a high end model they produced for a short time and it was pretty nice.
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Old 02-03-2017, 08:39 PM   #8
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I'm not sure where the real value and quality is in a new coach. My son is on his second Mountain Aire and it had over 40+ things wrong with it. It has been back to the factory three times and needs to go back again. My 2013 Allegro Bus had less than 10 minor items that the dealer took care of three years ago and has been trouble free since. Yet I have read of other Tiffin owners having to return to the factory. My son has ordered a Newell that he will pick up in May. Will it be better than Newmar or Tiffin??? He certainly hopes so for what he is paying.
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Old 02-03-2017, 08:58 PM   #9
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I am a "newbie" at this so I figured I would put in my 2 cents. My wife and I recently bought our first class A MH. We had travel trailers and started with a pop up as many of you probably did. We spent almost 2 years looking and going to a lot of RV and camper shows looking at class A motorhomes. We looked at DP's and gas models and we didn't want to go more than 36'. We looked at every make and model in the 36' range. Last summer we went to a FMCA event which had all makes and model motorhomes from Thor all the way to American Coach. We were looking at every motorhome talking to the sales people listening on how their motorhome was better than the next guys.Finally we ended up at Tiffin motorhomes. We looked at a couple of motorhomes they had and we walked in one of them and there stood Bob Tiffin himself. He introduced himself and talked to my wife and I for about 10 minutes. I told him what were looking for and he took the time and told us about the models he had based upon the info I had given him. He never said well our motorhomes are better than so and so's. For an owner of a company to actually take the time to listen and talk to us that was a deal breaker right there. We purchased a new 2016 Allegro 34PA and could not be happier with it!!!
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Old 02-03-2017, 10:42 PM   #10
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I am a "newbie" at this so I figured I would put in my 2 cents. My wife and I recently bought our first class A MH. We had travel trailers and started with a pop up as many of you probably did. We spent almost 2 years looking and going to a lot of RV and camper shows looking at class A motorhomes. We looked at DP's and gas models and we didn't want to go more than 36'. We looked at every make and model in the 36' range. Last summer we went to a FMCA event which had all makes and model motorhomes from Thor all the way to American Coach. We were looking at every motorhome talking to the sales people listening on how their motorhome was better than the next guys.Finally we ended up at Tiffin motorhomes. We looked at a couple of motorhomes they had and we walked in one of them and there stood Bob Tiffin himself. He introduced himself and talked to my wife and I for about 10 minutes. I told him what were looking for and he took the time and told us about the models he had based upon the info I had given him. He never said well our motorhomes are better than so and so's. For an owner of a company to actually take the time to listen and talk to us that was a deal breaker right there. We purchased a new 2016 Allegro 34PA and could not be happier with it!!!
Bob is a true gentleman and he listens. I have had some changes made to our coach that the company has incorporated into their new models. My wife wanted a non opening window next to her seat for an unobstructed view and Bob sent one to our dealer to install at no charge. Two years ago, I told him that the 45' Bus needed a pantry in the kitchen. The 2017 models then came with two. Tiffin may not be the best manufacturer, but they have made us feel like family.
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:25 AM   #11
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were you an only child?

Or did you sibling run away??

j/k

sorta
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Old 02-04-2017, 10:27 AM   #12
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Quote:
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...
My question to you good folks is “How important is it that a coach is the flagship of the coach builder”? Do you think it makes an actual difference or it's all a lot about nothin?

Thanks guys,

Harry
Using Newmar as the example, their King Aire sits on a heavier duty chassis with a bigger engine than say their Dutch Star. Typically a Spartan K3 600HP vs. a K2 with 450HP for the Dutch Star. Above the chassis it's all about materials and systems. Just like a house, you can build one at $100/sq. ft. or build one at $500/sq. ft. It just depends on the quality of materials you select. It's the bling factor for things above the chassis. As far as value, the Dutch Star has more bang for the buck in my opinion. You get more with the King Aire but you pay a whole lot more for it.
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Old 02-04-2017, 11:07 AM   #13
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I honestly don't understand the OP's question, but I'm going to offer my opinion to the discussion anyway, because that's what I do.

You have to consider the corporate culture of each manufacturer. A corporation that places high emphasis on quality will have that perpetuated throughout the brand and model lines. A flagship model of an corporation that has a sketchy reputation for quality will most likely have sketchy quality, regardless of how it's branded.
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Old 02-04-2017, 11:10 AM   #14
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Sports Coach 400 is not a flagship for Thor. A Tuscany 45T maybe closer.
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