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Old 12-30-2017, 10:53 AM   #1
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Lifeblue lithium ion batteries

Has anyone used these lifeblue lithium batteries? For how long? Your thoughts on them?
Thanks,
Hb
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:55 PM   #2
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They are very expensive. You will also probably need to buy a special charger for them. I'd think you could replace multiple sets of lead/acid batteries for the cost of the lithium batteries.
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Old 01-01-2018, 02:46 AM   #3
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Yes I am aware of these things. I'm looking for reviews really. People who own them. Thanks.

Hb
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:33 AM   #4
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Lifeblue lithium ion batteries

Visit thefitrv.com. The blog author made the swap on his Travato Class B and has a lot of real world specifics.
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:00 AM   #5
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Yes I am aware of these things. I'm looking for reviews really. People who own them. Thanks.

Hb
How are you using the RV? If you go to campgrounds with 120v service, you don't really need the high priced lithium batteries. If you occasionally camp without power, then again regular batteries have enough storage capacity to handle the use. If you go boondocking for days or weeks at a time or like to use lots of energy-gobbling things while not connected, then perhaps the added storage of the lithium batteries could be useful.

I'd carefully access your energy needs and usage of the RV before investing in such a battery upgrade.
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:07 AM   #6
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Has anyone used these lifeblue lithium batteries? For how long? Your thoughts on them?
Thanks,
Hb
I am going to get them in spring for my coach, contact Larry at Starlight Solar Lithium Ion Battery For RV and Boat - LiFePO4 LFP - Starlight Solar
He may give you some references. You can also search this forum as there are a few users here. One person in the Entegra forum just installed them.

FWIW my research concluded LifeBlue is the way to go IF you can afford them.
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:19 AM   #7
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Yes, Cost. Lithium about $1,000 per 100ah capacity. Flooded Lead acid (FLA) batteries, 6v GC2 size; about $80 per 100ah capacity. Sigh.........
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:23 AM   #8
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Heres the link to the Entegra section http://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/lith...te-372606.html
The OP is figuring a Minimum of 15 years of service out of them......
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:26 AM   #9
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Here's a couple who were 'early adopters' of lithium technology. Read all about it:

Technomadia | Adventures in Nomadic Serendipity
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:20 AM   #10
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Here's a couple who were 'early adopters' of lithium technology. Read all about it:

Technomadia | Adventures in Nomadic Serendipity
According to the OP's personal info, he doesn't have a 1961 converted bus or a 47' Bayliner, he has a Roadtrek 19' Class B RV. Quite a bit of difference in RVing! He might be wishing to equip it to go fulltime, but I'd bet he'd want an RV upgrade way before he'd get payback for such expensive batteries. JMHO.
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:16 PM   #11
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Bob and Donna,

I boondock about six times per year for 5 days or more.
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:27 PM   #12
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For a Roadtrek, FitRV would be the place to get info as they have a Travato.


https://www.thefitrv.com/rv-tips/our...-and-inverter/
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Old 01-10-2018, 12:35 AM   #13
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In the right situation, they are very worthwhile ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honeyboy View Post
Bob and Donna,

I boondock about six times per year for 5 days or more.
[QUOTE=Honeyboy;3970804]Bob and Donna,

Thirty days of boon docking per year might not justify LFP, LifeBlue or otherwise, if what you have lasts though those 5 day stints. Or if you have solar and/or another charging means. If you are in need of new batteries, do give LFP a look. The advantages are huge.

Comparing them on price with lead acid is tricky. The cost per AH is just the starting point and is unfairly negative about LFP if you stop there.

Dig into this a bit since you have time. You will find things like these to consider ...........

1) you will need about 30% less solar for the same usable energy if you go solar.

2) your generator will charge LFP fully in a few hours while it will not fully charge lead-acid unless you run it for hours on end (as much as 10 hours for a full charge from 50% to 100% depending on your converter/charger).

3) LFP requires just one charge stage; essentially the first of the three normally used for lead acid.

4) lead acid need frequent 100% charges to live long while an LFP will have a long life even if you never fully charge it -- in fact it will live longer if you avoid charging to 100%.

5) because an LFP can be discharged safely to 20% or lower* (compared to lead acid's 50%) you get a lot more energy out of it before needing a charge. Hence a lesser ampere-hour battery will do the job. (* for maximum life stop at 20%).

6) with lead-acid, the voltage drop under heavy load is large and down around 50% charge, your inverter is likely to kick-off on low voltage (down around 11.5V or lower). LFP voltage remains up around 13V even when state of charge is low and load is high.

7) if you don't abuse an LFP it can last 3000 cycles or more (each down to 20%) and easily 10 years or more. The Lifeblue is warranted for 83% remaining capacity at 10 years regardless of the number of cycles.

8) LFP are sealed maintenance-free.

9) LFP weighs a fraction of what equivalent lead acid weights (think more mpg)

10) Modern "drop-in" LFP have built in protection against overcharge (BMS or battery management system), over discharge, short-circuit, etc. Lead acid do not (unfortunately).

11) the list goes on .............

I have a 300 ampere-hour LifeBlue which is overkill, but I easily get 12 days of boondocking from 400W of solar even if the sunlight is minimal due to shade or clouds. And we are relatively heavy electricity users (propane heater, fans, microwave, espresso maker, toaster, computer (not a laptop), home theater, etc. We do not run our AC from the battery (more on that below).

Some Caveats though .......

I've found no real LFP chargers on the market. Supposedly modern "drop-in" LFP do not need special care in part because of the internal BMS. However, the details of that BMS seem to be a trade secret and what one can deduce from the label on the side of the battery, it is not highly protective in terms of normal use and long life. I'm an anal electrical engineer and don't want to abuse my LFP in part because the internal BMS records abuse and can void the warranty. Issues include difficulty knowing when the state of charge hits 20% because voltage does not drop measurably as the SOC drops. And difficulty avoiding going over 100% charge via solar or any other charger because all halt charging based on voltage and the voltage of an LFP does not rise much when fully charged unless you hit it with very high charge current; i.e., the charger does not stop charging at 100% unless it can deliver enough current to get voltage up to a cut-off around 14 volts. My solar never gets voltage above about 13.8V and less on cloudy days, so continues charging well past 100%. The built-in BMS does not help with this.

The LifeBlue (only I think) does have good built-in monitoring and does send information to a cell phone or tablet app via Bluetooth so does allow one to keep an eye on and, for instance, cut off the solar manually as the battery approaches 100% charge. No chargers, solar or otherwise use this Bluetooth data. External SOC monitors can do this but ones I've looked at don't have settings that are appropriate for LFP (i.e., won't halt charging at 100% reliably).

I think one could treat a modern LFP as drop-in and ignore it and probably get decent life out of it, but for me that's not good enough especially on the solar side where charging current can stay quite low and charge well beyond 100%.

Another caveat is limits on charge current and discharge current. My LifeBlue limits are 80 amps charge and 100 amps discharge. This limits an inverter to 1300 Watts (not enough for AC). I don't recall exactly, but I think the 200 ampere-hour LifeBlue is about the same, so two 200 AH units might drive a 2600 Watt inverter. Some other "drop-in" LFP can deliver more current and charge at a higher rate.

The LifeBlue app reads out temperature, voltage (including individual cell voltage), current in or out, and State of Charge in ampere-hours. If you are okay monitoring the battery via this app, keeping the battery safe is not hard. I check it almost daily. Since electricity is so critical when boondocking, I think most RVers would suggest checking any battery system daily.
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:01 AM   #14
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Why have Lithium batteries

Here's the thing.

* 2 100 amp hour lithium batteries can last about 36 hours with a 5 amp pull.

* You can also run them all the way down and recharge without hurting the life of the battery. With all other batteries you have to stop and recharge before draining 50% or more.

* Lithium batteries can recharge for 0 to 100% in a about 2 hours with a decent solar setup.

I use a CPAP 8 hours everynight so lithium batteries are a no brainer for me when using the RV.


-- if I wanted the RV fixed in 6 months, I'd bring it in 6 months.
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