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Old 10-05-2019, 02:29 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by MWeiner View Post
Thanks for the clarification of the AGMs, I understand. What I do like is that they are all sealed and need no attention.

All right, you can certainly check out the suspension anywhere, these guys can respond to questions you may have based upon your experience behind the wheel.

On the lithium batteries link you sent me, I noticed that they are 12 volts, no 6 volts at all....interesting. Maybe that would work??

Right now, my batteries are fine....I guess I can look at it later.
True. AGMs. Maintenance free is always better for lazy people like me.
Unless Roadtrek did something really bizarre and changed your coach to only use 6V DC power, the 2 X 6V batteries you have right now are probably wired in series, to simulate a 12V battery and supply 12V power to the rest of the coach. Have a look, positive to negative to positive to negative?
Yes, 12V batteries will work for you. You would wire them in parallel, if you have room for more than one. Positive to positive to positive, negative to negative to negative. Or, you could get one large capacity lithium battery, if it would fit physically in your battery bay.
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:25 PM   #44
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Lithium info

If you have some spare time this link is to a great site that will explain in detail everything you want to know about Lithium batteries.


DIY Solar Power Forum
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Old 10-11-2019, 09:40 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Winterbagoal View Post
My "insinuation" is supported by significant numbers of anecdotal experiences, as reported by owners of newer Roadtreks, as posted and discussed over the last 10 years or so at a better site for class/type B motorhome expertise and dicussion, than this "general purpose" forum.

I would suggest you visit the
Class B Forums
and browse some of the threads on Fit&Finish and QC/QA failures by Roadtrek since before it first changed hands to avoid receivership back in 2011, bought by private equity firm Industrial Opportunity Partners (IOP).

A little history to review...

https://www.pehub.com/2016/02/indust...artners-exits/
As Judge Judy would state all you are insinuating is just hearsay. For you to denounce Roadtrek actual first hand experience can be supported, not I read this or that.
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Old 10-11-2019, 01:58 PM   #46
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As Judge Judy would state all you are insinuating is just hearsay. For you to denounce Roadtrek actual first hand experience can be supported, not I read this or that.
Who is Judge Judy?
It's fairly common for owners to write about, and pontificate on their problems and complaints on websites like these, so that others may read about them. Are you insinuating that everything negative that's ever been said about any manufacturer on these forums is lying? Hmm, now that's a pretty big stretch, even in a legal sense.
Trust me, Roadtrek's quality started to lapse around 2010, and initiated their first near bankruptcy and buy out. After that it was always questionable, hit and miss on QC.
If you're still unconvinced, oh no. (read that as I don't care)
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Old 10-11-2019, 04:35 PM   #47
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Look, companies get traded all the time...

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Who is Judge Judy?
It's fairly common for owners to write about, and pontificate on their problems and complaints on websites like these, so that others may read about them. Are you insinuating that everything negative that's ever been said about any manufacturer on these forums is lying? Hmm, now that's a pretty big stretch, even in a legal sense.
Trust me, Roadtrek's quality started to lapse around 2010, and initiated their first near bankruptcy and buy out. After that it was always questionable, hit and miss on QC.
If you're still unconvinced, oh no. (read that as I don't care)
It's a little bit of a jump in logic to think that just because a company, like Roadtrek, got purchased by the Equity Partners in 2010 meant that they had a sea-change of employees or procedures..... actually, I would suspect that you really don't know that.... give us some actual evidence of what you are saying... If you don't have any, and I doubt you do, then can we just drop the speculation.....

And, the most current acquisition by Rapido is a case where some people embezzled money and the company had to be sold and reorganized......it happens.....

Again, you can't blame the employees... I don't know, but, it's possible that a lot of those people came back and Roadtrek is once again in business.....

As for Judge Judy.... I'm kinda surprised that you have never heard of her..... she has a really high profile and is arguably one of the highest paid celebrity judges on TV...she has been on TV continuously for 20 years.... I think she's retiring... but it's not a secret that she's paid $50 million per year.....She is very entertaining and actually helps people understand some things in small claims court......
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Old 10-11-2019, 10:52 PM   #48
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It's fairly common for owners to write about, and pontificate on their problems and complaints on websites like these,
Yes, it is fairly common for some people to complain. There is nothing new about that and it hardly supports your conclusion.

As for the "embezzlement" at Hymer/Roadtrek, that appears to be a baseless rumor since no one has been charged with any crimes. Instead, it appears that Hymer's overall North America operations were not really profitable. The most likely explanation for that is that they expanded too quickly. Most of the "debt" that put them in receivership seems to have been owed to the Hymer parent company in Germany that was purchased by Thor. It appears the parent company "loaned" the money to finance the rapid expansion.
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Old 10-12-2019, 10:50 AM   #49
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Probably true, yes, I agree with your assessment

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Yes, it is fairly common for some people to complain. There is nothing new about that and it hardly supports your conclusion.

As for the "embezzlement" at Hymer/Roadtrek, that appears to be a baseless rumor since no one has been charged with any crimes. Instead, it appears that Hymer's overall North America operations were not really profitable. The most likely explanation for that is that they expanded too quickly. Most of the "debt" that put them in receivership seems to have been owed to the Hymer parent company in Germany that was purchased by Thor. It appears the parent company "loaned" the money to finance the rapid expansion.
Ross, thanks for the voice of reason here.....

Yeah, people on the internet can say anything they like... they really don't know.... this sounds very plausible to me.

And, the fact that no one has been charged with anything is a little indication that it was probably a combination of poor judgement, bad management oversight and poor profit margins.....it happens all the time...

Now that Roadtrek is once back again in business under a new parent company, Rapido, and the employees are back, they will start again..

The new RVs are extremely expensive....my RS Adventurous starting price is over $151,000...., once you add on some options, it's just shy of $200,000.....

Your E-Trek is even higher... with a starting price over $178,000....

That's a huge increase... which is why I think that has to have a impact on making older units like ours worth more money on the used market..... Most people I know cannot afford or want to commit to a $200,000 RV.....

You know what I mean?
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:02 AM   #50
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The new RVs are extremely expensive

RV MSRP's seem to have very little connection to the real price from a dealer. But those high suggested prices probably reflect the positioning of Roadtrek as a luxury brand. With one plant, they are starting out with much less capacity and the statements by Rapido execs seem to indicate they had some concerns about meeting demand. You can always lower prices, or introduce lower priced models as their plans for a model on the Transit chassis would suggest.



Quote:
I think that has to have a impact on making older units like ours worth more money on the used market

Maybe. I think that will depend on how many changes they make. Having the Etrek brand on our coach isn't going to hurt its value. But since it has AGM's rather than lithium batteries, it really isn't comparable. I also have a Webasto forced air furnace, rather than the Alde in floor heat. I am sure the new regime will have some ideas of their own for improvements. But people having to pay over twice the price for the new improved version can't hurt.



I am a long way from worrying about that. My hope is that they adopt a modern marketing approach of building the Roadtrek community. That would mean doing things that keep us existing owners happy evangelists for the brand. Like making sure we can get parts and service.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:14 AM   #51
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RV MSRP's seem to have very little connection to the real price from a dealer. But those high suggested prices probably reflect the positioning of Roadtrek as a luxury brand. With one plant, they are starting out with much less capacity and the statements by Rapido execs seem to indicate they had some concerns about meeting demand. You can always lower prices, or introduce lower priced models as their plans for a model on the Transit chassis would suggest.



Ross, you wrote,


Maybe. I think that will depend on how many changes they make. Having the Etrek brand on our coach isn't going to hurt its value. But since it has AGM's rather than lithium batteries, it really isn't comparable. I also have a Webasto forced air furnace, rather than the Alde in floor heat. I am sure the new regime will have some ideas of their own for improvements. But people having to pay over twice the price for the new improved version can't hurt.


I am a long way from worrying about that. My hope is that they adopt a modern marketing approach of building the Roadtrek community. That would mean doing things that keep us existing owners happy evangelists for the brand. Like making sure we can get parts and service.
Ross, I would suggest that Roadtrek is definitely a luxury brand and the 3 top models in their line , E-Trek, CS and RS Adventurous are prime examples.

They do make lower priced units on the Promaster platform.

I'm not an expert in battery technology, but, I've been told that lithium batteries can catch fire and the cost for replacement is higher than the AGMs. Maybe having the older system is an advantage in this situation. Also, the Alde heating system is very expensive and complex.
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Old 10-17-2019, 08:40 PM   #52
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Ross, I would suggest that Roadtrek is definitely a luxury brand and the 3 top models in their line , E-Trek, CS and RS Adventurous are prime examples.

They do make lower priced units on the Promaster platform.

I'm not an expert in battery technology, but, I've been told that lithium batteries can catch fire and the cost for replacement is higher than the AGMs. Maybe having the older system is an advantage in this situation. Also, the Alde heating system is very expensive and complex.
Please stop with the ridiculous claim that lithium batteries can catch on fire. There are 7 types of lithium batteries ranging from those put in cheap Chinese toys to those in electric vehicles to those in advanced aerospace uses. Each one has a different chemistry. Your vaping pen might catch on fire, but the LiFePO4 batteries in your RV won't. LiFePO4 batteries are far better than AGMs in every regard, but they do cost more.

The problem with Roadtrek's is Roadtrek (or Hymer North America) a dead company. Yes, some company stepped up to take care of warranty claims, but service is limited and no one trusts that claims will be taken care of. They can't get rid of the "new" inventory left over from the dead company and no one wants to buy a used one unless it's an older one (pre 2010 are supposed to be the good ones). Newer models are selling at a steep discount, because no one wants to take the chance.
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Old 10-17-2019, 09:11 PM   #53
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Dead company??

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Please stop with the ridiculous claim that lithium batteries can catch on fire. There are 7 types of lithium batteries ranging from those put in cheap Chinese toys to those in electric vehicles to those in advanced aerospace uses. Each one has a different chemistry. Your vaping pen might catch on fire, but the LiFePO4 batteries in your RV won't. LiFePO4 batteries are far better than AGMs in every regard, but they do cost more.

The problem with Roadtrek's is Roadtrek (or Hymer North America) a dead company. Yes, some company stepped up to take care of warranty claims, but service is limited and no one trusts that claims will be taken care of. They can't get rid of the "new" inventory left over from the dead company and no one wants to buy a used one unless it's an older one (pre 2010 are supposed to be the good ones). Newer models are selling at a steep discount, because no one wants to take the chance.
New management, Roadtrek is not dead....

https://www.roadtrek.com/

Only 2010 and older models are OK, according to your view? How's that?

Don't just tell us.... give some actual evidence to support your claim....
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:08 PM   #54
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LiFePO4 batteries are far better than AGMs in every regard, but they do cost more.
No they aren't. Lithiium batteries can't be charged below 32F and can't be discharged below -4F. AGM's work just fine at those temperatures. They lose capacity, but that just means sizing your system to meet your needs. They will still be cheaper than lithium batteries.

To use lithiums you need an alternative source of power to heat them up to operating and/or charging temperature. And lithiums can be damaged by extreme high temperatures as well. There are specialized lithium batteries that overcome those limitations, or claim to, but we are talking about standard RV batteries not ones designed for space missions.

Does that make AGM's "better?" Of course not. But if, like me, you live where temperatures can stay below freezing for months at a time and get below zero for weeks, then AGM's are probably a better choice.

As I understand it, the "new" Roadtrek was planning to start manufacturing this week. The MSRPs on their website certainly don't indicate they think they are going to need to be price conscious. They are priced substantially higher than the same models when sold by Hymer NA.
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