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Old 02-17-2022, 08:27 AM   #1
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Tellaro Lithium System Problem

Hello all. I’m new to the forum so I hope this post is in the right place. I have a brand new Thor Tellaro 20L with their “Reliable” lithium system. It has (2) 100amp Reliable batteries, 3000w inverter, 190w solar panel. My problem is that after just 40 min of running the air conditioner, the system goes into an error state and shuts down. According to the tests I ran (see below), the air conditioner is pulling at most 91amp so with a 200amp battery pack I should get at least 2 hours out of the batteries. Can anyone tell me what might be wrong?

FIRST TEST
This test was performed without shore power, engine off, solar charger on, sunny day with temp of 75*
Started with state of charge (SOC) at 100%
Inverter on

Turned on air conditioner and set it at “auto”, 82*
Max amp we’re around 76% according to Combimaster

System went through one cycle of cooling and stopped at preset temp.
SOC showed around 85%
Five minutes later air conditioner started a second cycle
Balmar monitor went into fault error, reset and showed 0% SOC
Combimaster still showed 12.4v on battery pack
Balmar BM Pro panel also showed 12.4v

Air conditioner ran fine during second cycle.
Max amp were around 92% (I turned fan to high)
System went through second cycle and stopped at preset temp
When air conditioner attempted to start for the third cycle, the system shut down
Balmar monitor went into another fault error and reset
Combimaster shut off
BM Pro panel still showed 13.1v on coach battery


This test lasted 40 minutes


SECOND TEST
This test was performed while driving, SOC at 28%, in the evening
Turned on air conditioner and set it at “auto”, 82*
System went through one cycle of cooling and stopped at preset temp.
SOC showed around 35% (charge from engine generator)
When air conditioner attempted to start for the second cycle, the system shut down
Balmar monitor blanked completely out to a white screen
Combimaster showed 14.5v on the battery
BM Pro panel shut off and would not restart

Several minutes later the Balmar monitor came back on and showed 32% SOC
I watched it over the next several minutes and observed it rise to 35% (engine generator)
I looked away for a few minutes and turned back to check it
It was at 100% SOC.
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Old 02-17-2022, 10:52 AM   #2
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Did the dealer say you could run the AC on the batteries? That's what it sounds like to me.
You'll need a much bigger system to be able to do that IMO.
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Old 02-17-2022, 11:09 AM   #3
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ehudah!

okcnewbie posted while I was composing this, his point is a good one and addressed in more detail in this post.

This is the right place for this issue as it is a very specific system for the Thor class B van. I don't own one but hopefully someone who sees this will reply.

The Balmar uses a shunt to help determine SOC so it should not go quickly from 85 to 0% as in your first test unless the system detected an undervoltage. 12.4 is a pretty low voltage for the type of lithium battery you have (LiFeP04) so it may be that you have one bad battery (more thoughts below).

If Thor didn't design the system correctly (i.e. didn't put a soft start in the A/C unit) the surge could cause even a two battery system to go undervoltage. If that were the case, however, the voltage on the Combimaster after the A/C shut off should have been higher than 12.4V, it would jump back up to something higher than that once the heavy A/C load is removed.

Note that the A/C does stress the system quite a bit. If the discharge rating of each battery is 1C, the current the A/C pulls, 90A, is 0.9C of one battery. It is ~0.45C if both batteries are good. Here is a graph of a typical LiFeP04 battery at various discharge rates:
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In the case of both 0.5C and 1C on the graph, 12.4V is a pretty low state of charge.

I suspect this may take a dealer or factory service center visit to resolve. Hopefully Thor will have equipped dealer service departments to competently troubleshoot this, though I fear otherwise.
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Old 02-17-2022, 03:19 PM   #4
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Thanks for the info, Luv2go. Some of the technical battery terms are a little over my head. I still don’t understand why the Balmar monitor would show 0% SOC on test one and still have the AC running. Then have it go from 35% SOC to 100% SOC within a couple minutes on test two.
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Old 04-06-2022, 04:24 PM   #5
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I'm curious if this has been resolved. Our new Tellaro has the same 200 Amp lithium battery system, and it has not worked properly since purchase. It appears our vehicle was shipped without some component (relay?) that enables the vehicle engine alternator to charge our house lithium batteries. Thor is not responding and LaMesa RV (where we bought the RV) does not seem to be in a hurry to address this.
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Old 04-10-2022, 10:27 AM   #6
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Same problem

Absent a lot of the technical stuff beyond my layman understanding - I have basically the same problem. Brand new Thor Tellaro 20L with lithium/Balmar/Mastervolt system.

First problem: batteries died too quickly
2nd phase: batteries wouldn't recharge by engine alternator nor solar and had to be recharged by shore power
3rd/current phase: batteries dead, won't charge on shore power AND shore power doesn't energize anything. Entire coach electrical system dead.

Returning unit to dealership ASAP for proper warranty repair but wondering how common this problem is AND how successful dealership/warranty repair has been?

'
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Old 04-25-2022, 02:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehudah View Post
Hello all. I’m new to the forum so I hope this post is in the right place. I have a brand new Thor Tellaro 20L with their “Reliable” lithium system. It has (2) 100amp Reliable batteries, 3000w inverter, 190w solar panel. My problem is that after just 40 min of running the air conditioner, the system goes into an error state and shuts down. According to the tests I ran (see below), the air conditioner is pulling at most 91amp so with a 200amp battery pack I should get at least 2 hours out of the batteries. Can anyone tell me what might be wrong?

FIRST TEST
This test was performed without shore power, engine off, solar charger on, sunny day with temp of 75*
Started with state of charge (SOC) at 100%
Inverter on

Turned on air conditioner and set it at “auto”, 82*
Max amp we’re around 76% according to Combimaster

System went through one cycle of cooling and stopped at preset temp.
SOC showed around 85%
Five minutes later air conditioner started a second cycle
Balmar monitor went into fault error, reset and showed 0% SOC
Combimaster still showed 12.4v on battery pack
Balmar BM Pro panel also showed 12.4v

Air conditioner ran fine during second cycle.
Max amp were around 92% (I turned fan to high)
System went through second cycle and stopped at preset temp
When air conditioner attempted to start for the third cycle, the system shut down
Balmar monitor went into another fault error and reset
Combimaster shut off
BM Pro panel still showed 13.1v on coach battery


This test lasted 40 minutes


SECOND TEST
This test was performed while driving, SOC at 28%, in the evening
Turned on air conditioner and set it at “auto”, 82*
System went through one cycle of cooling and stopped at preset temp.
SOC showed around 35% (charge from engine generator)
When air conditioner attempted to start for the second cycle, the system shut down
Balmar monitor blanked completely out to a white screen
Combimaster showed 14.5v on the battery
BM Pro panel shut off and would not restart

Several minutes later the Balmar monitor came back on and showed 32% SOC
I watched it over the next several minutes and observed it rise to 35% (engine generator)
I looked away for a few minutes and turned back to check it
It was at 100% SOC.


I have a 22 tellaro with the same issue. I just drove mine home and on the trip 900 miles had the same situation. When I would stop and rest and let the house AC run I would get that fault after an hour or so. Mine would show the soc at less than 1% or 0% and show a fault. However everything still appeared to work fine and I kept using my AC. When I would run the engine and charge the system it would quickly raise the SOC. For example after 10 minutes it would have gone to 32% and after 15 minutes to 62% and after driving an hour or so it is fully charge. So it is apparent to me that the system was not at 0%. I am looking for someone that has resolved this issue or a good place to start to diagnose. Also I went under the Van when I go home and saw how this reliable power pack system was installed. What a disgrace. I have no idea how anyone could consider this acceptable. The substantial amount of wiring is all surface mounted to the underside of the van and 100% exposed. I will drive my van in the winter and I am confident this installation is completely inadequate. So I am going to work on that as well.
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Old 05-15-2022, 12:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehudah View Post
Thanks for the info, Luv2go. Some of the technical battery terms are a little over my head. I still don’t understand why the Balmar monitor would show 0% SOC on test one and still have the AC running. Then have it go from 35% SOC to 100% SOC within a couple minutes on test two.
For ehudah, Did you ever get the problem fixed. Have same issue. Alternator not charging the batteries.
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Old 05-15-2022, 12:42 PM   #9
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by denversm View Post
I'm curious if this has been resolved. Our new Tellaro has the same 200 Amp lithium battery system, and it has not worked properly since purchase. It appears our vehicle was shipped without some component (relay?) that enables the vehicle engine alternator to charge our house lithium batteries. Thor is not responding and LaMesa RV (where we bought the RV) does not seem to be in a hurry to address this.
Did they fix the supposed relay problem? I have the same issue, alternator wont charge batteries. Need location of fuse and relay.
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Old 05-15-2022, 06:29 PM   #10
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It sounds to me like too high of amp draw for the size of the battery bank, and the BMS may be shutting down on peak amp discharge.
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Old 05-16-2022, 12:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigmus View Post
Did they fix the supposed relay problem? I have the same issue, alternator wont charge batteries. Need location of fuse and relay.
The relay is at the bottom of the B pillar behind the passenger seat. However, I am no longer confident this is the issue.

The LaMesa mobile person came out to look at the vehicle. Other than supposedly confirming the relay was in place, they were not able to determine anything. It was obvious the person had no real experience with the system and their methods of testing did not inspire confidence. At one point, they seemed to think the auxiliary alternator was bad, but then maybe not. Not only did this appointment do nothing for me, it took a month of badgering them for some follow up.

Today, I dropped the vehicle off at LaMesa with my fingers crossed. I will update this thread when I know something. Hopefully others do the same.
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Old 05-17-2022, 08:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denversm View Post
The relay is at the bottom of the B pillar behind the passenger seat. However, I am no longer confident this is the issue.

The LaMesa mobile person came out to look at the vehicle. Other than supposedly confirming the relay was in place, they were not able to determine anything. It was obvious the person had no real experience with the system and their methods of testing did not inspire confidence. At one point, they seemed to think the auxiliary alternator was bad, but then maybe not. Not only did this appointment do nothing for me, it took a month of badgering them for some follow up.

Today, I dropped the vehicle off at LaMesa with my fingers crossed. I will update this thread when I know something. Hopefully others do the same.
Thank you for the update. Truly Appreciated.
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Old 05-22-2022, 10:45 AM   #13
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We purchased a 2022 Tellaro similar setup and noticed the Lithium house batteries are not being charged from the chassis alternator. I have spoken with Thor for clarification and our coach was equipped with the Onan gas generator and Thor only set up a few this way. The representative called it a "hybrid". With this setup, the house batteries are only charged from solar, 30 amp or generator. The air conditioner can run without the generator running but with the two 100ah batteries will need recharging within about an hour. Thor said we could add a second alternator to the coach engine to charge the batteries but it was not installed from the factory. I like having the generator and with this setup, will get plenty of use but would have hoped Thor would have added the extra alternator also.
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Old 05-23-2022, 07:58 AM   #14
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New Tellaro 20J Battery issues

Hello - We just got our new Tellaro and are also having battery issues. The battery goes totally dead in about 24hrs even when hooked up to our house 15amp service. Nothing but refrigerator is turned on in the house. The solar doesnt seem to be doing anything. Has anyone found a solution for this? Anyone having issues charging with 15amps? Thank you!
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