Pin weighing

[Gordon Dewald]

Our KZ 41 Sportster with an overall length of 43'10" fully loaded with 2 motorcycles was 17,856 with a pin weight of 3365.

The location of the 5 wheel was such that there was no change of the front axle truck weight.

[Marin R]

I have been looking and shopping for these fir about 2 1/5 yrs. DRV I thought was the top of the line, until i ran across new horizon and spacecraft. I believe NH is a much stronger structurally than a DRV. I've been reading many issues on their product, that's why so many used ones 1 and 2 yrs old are for sale. When I first started looking for used NH they were hard to come by.
They make their own frame , much stronger than other competitors. The weight follows along with it. I have been reading on all the ram, Ford and now Chevy stepped up to larger towing capacity, except until you start adding pin weight, all these trucks are under rated for NH, much safer with HDT. Stoping and controlling what's behind you is the biggest concern, that's where HDTs come in.
I feel they are a much heavier duty unit , and the quality level follows it. Now spacecraft you can customize to the inch, a good price to go with it, thet have heavy duty frames as well, there both overkill in frames versus not enough. I ended up coming across a used one they are having house built, for very nice price versus brand new.
Good luck

[geo-gypsy]

Originally Posted by Marin R

I have been looking and shopping for these fir about 2 1/5 yrs. DRV I thought was the top of the line, until i ran across new horizon and spacecraft. I believe NH is a much stronger structurally than a DRV. I've been reading many issues on their product, that's why so many used ones 1 and 2 yrs old are for sale. When I first started looking for used NH they were hard to come by.
They make their own frame , much stronger than other competitors. The weight follows along with it. I have been reading on all the ram, Ford and now Chevy stepped up to larger towing capacity, except until you start adding pin weight, all these trucks are under rated for NH, much safer with HDT. Stoping and controlling what's behind you is the biggest concern, that's where HDTs come in.
I feel they are a much heavier duty unit , and the quality level follows it. Now spacecraft you can customize to the inch, a good price to go with it, thet have heavy duty frames as well, there both overkill in frames versus not enough. I ended up coming across a used one they are having house built, for very nice price versus brand new.
Good luck

Marin -

We had a pre-Thor DRV Elite Suites for 5 years. It had a Lippert frame like most all RVs (except New Horizons and Spacecraft). New Horizons designs and builds their own frames. In fact, I have met and befriended the welder (Troy) who built our frame!

Two years ago, we made a decision to order a 39' New Horizons Majestic. Our Majestic is within the specs to be pulled by our F450. I cannot speak for the Spacecraft, but depending upon what one orders on a New Horizons, it may be "sized" for a 450/4500 or 550/5500 medium duty truck or the larger units (like Big Red) will require a heavy duty truck. (Note: Within manufacturing reason, you customize a New Horizons "to an inch". We spent two weeks, three days in Junction City ordering ours.)

Now, as a (used) New Horizons owner, may I invite you to join the New Horizons Owners Group and join us at our rally in Creede, CO next September. Send me a private message with your email, and I will send you more information.

Just my two cents,
Ron

[Marin R]

Ron would like to join the NW owners site, and interested I attending the private rally . I'm uncertain how to send you a PM with only first name.
Thanks

[DTVGuy]

Originally Posted by geo-gypsy

Marin -

Two years ago, we made a decision to order a 39' New Horizons Majestic. Our Majestic is within the specs to be pulled by our F450. I cannot speak for the Spacecraft, but depending upon what one orders on a New Horizons, it may be "sized" for a 450/4500 or 550/5500 medium duty truck or the larger units (like Big Red) will require a heavy duty truck.
Ron

As a point of clarification - The F-450 "pickup" is not equal to a 4500 truck. It is a Class III truck. Not saying your trailer is overloading the rear axle of your F-450. But to clarify for anyone doing research, be careful about Class III trucks and New Horizons. It is very easy to overload those truck's rear axles when installing hauler beds and aux tanks, etc.

Ford does make an F-450 Commercial truck which is a Class IV truck and has better rear axle specs for the purpose. Likewise, like all Class IV and V trucks (F-550 / 5500HD) it will have different engine specifications from the like looking "pickups."

The issue is not "pulling" the trailer. It is the rear axle capability and with the larger trailers controlling the trailer with a proper truck to trailer weight ratio. There is a reason all of those adds with the F-450 pulling all that weight are presented with goose neck trailers, not 5th wheels. Totally different "pin weights" on the rear axles.

Just information.

[geo-gypsy]

Originally Posted by DTVGuy

As a point of clarification - The F-450 "pickup" is not equal to a 4500 truck. It is a Class III truck. Not saying your trailer is overloading the rear axle of your F-450. But to clarify for anyone doing research, be careful about Class III trucks and New Horizons. It is very easy to overload those truck's rear axles when installing hauler beds and aux tanks, etc.

Ford does make an F-450 Commercial truck which is a Class IV truck and has better rear axle specs for the purpose. Likewise, like all Class IV and V trucks (F-550 / 5500HD) it will have different engine specifications from the like looking "pickups."

The issue is not "pulling" the trailer. It is the rear axle capability and with the larger trailers controlling the trailer with a proper truck to trailer weight ratio. There is a reason all of those adds with the F-450 pulling all that weight are presented with goose neck trailers, not 5th wheels. Totally different "pin weights" on the rear axles.

Just information.

So, you are saying that a Ford F-450 is not the "same" truck as a Dodge 4500 or a Chevy 4500? Or a Ford F-550 is not the "same" truck as a Dodge 5500 or Chevy 5500? Hmm. Interesting. So, Ford is a lower class truck? You know, you could be opening the "truck wars" again. FYI, my Ford F-450 is a commercial truck with all the Class IV capabilities. I did order it with a pickup bed rather than having a hauler bed installed. So, if you look at it, it does appear to be a "pickup". And, FYI, you should check the Ford engine specs again.

Just my two cents.
Ron

[DTVGuy]

Originally Posted by geo-gypsy

So, you are saying that a Ford F-450 is not the "same" truck as a Dodge 4500 or a Chevy 4500? Or a Ford F-550 is not the "same" truck as a Dodge 5500 or Chevy 5500? Hmm. Interesting. So, Ford is a lower class truck? You know, you could be opening the "truck wars" again. FYI, my Ford F-450 is a commercial truck with all the Class IV capabilities. I did order it with a pickup bed rather than having a hauler bed installed. So, if you look at it, it does appear to be a "pickup". And, FYI, you should check the Ford engine specs again.

Just my two cents.
Ron

I am saying the Ford F-450 "pickup" the one that comes with the bed and the 440 HP engine, is a Class III truck, not a class IV. If you have an F-450 Commercial truck then it is a Class IV truck as I indicated with increased RAWR and GVWR. Yes, I have checked the engine specs for years. Unless something changed recently all the commercial trucks, Class IV and Class V commercial trucks, Ford and Ram, with the exception of the Class III Chevy 3500 which changed a few years ago, have reduced HP and torque from the commercial engines to make them last longer in commercial service and basically protect them. Different tunes as well.

No argument intended. Just information for anyone considering a NH, etc.

[geo-gypsy]

Originally Posted by Marin R

Ron would like to join the NW owners site, and interested I attending the private rally . I'm uncertain how to send you a PM with only first name.
Thanks

Marin -

I sent you a private message a couple of weeks ago. Check your private message box on this forum. Reply to that private message with your email, and I will send you rally information.

Ron

[Marin R]

It funny when reading " ask me how I know this". We attended a seminar with RV-dreams, Howard and Linda , he would say that all the time, was funny.

Reading up on all these trucks seem to be a pain, based on pin weight issues.
Now I'm looking in direction of HDT, uncertain to go as short as possible or long to put a car up on truck.
Purchased a NH used 42' they state 19800 dry, 25k loaded, but on weight is always becoming an issue, unless you look at 5500 series but give up all power. There are not many locations which do buildouts on HDT.

[HDrider]

Originally Posted by Marin R

It funny when reading " ask me how I know this". We attended a seminar with RV-dreams, Howard and Linda , he would say that all the time, was funny.

Reading up on all these trucks seem to be a pain, based on pin weight issues.
Now I'm looking in direction of HDT, uncertain to go as short as possible or long to put a car up on truck.
Purchased a NH used 42' they state 19800 dry, 25k loaded, but on weight is always becoming an issue, unless you look at 5500 series but give up all power. There are not many locations which do buildouts on HDT.

When you say "give up all power" with a 5500 what do you feel happens? Can't drive unloaded down the highway at 70 or 75? Not so. Can't pull the 5th wheel down the road at a comfortable 65? not true. Can't beat a corvette from stoplight to stoplight? Sooooo true LOL!!

[Marin R]

When looking at specs 5500 series 370hp and 429fp of t.
3500 series 410 hp and 1000 fps o t.
So what I have read from many others , 5500 going up inclines are very slow, so you cant continuecdoing 65 up a hill, verses 3500 series.
HDT 1450fp o t, you pull that 26k rv up a hill with no iij issues whatsoever , along with better mpg than 5500 series. Rides are much more comfortable in an hdt verses mst.

[dadej]

And the debate of which truck is right continues. With a HDT you don't need to worry about pin weights. I wonder how many folks with 450 or 550 series trucks have ever rode in a HDT while pulling the large fifth wheel. I have had F350 super duty, Freightliner M2-106 and now a HDT Volvo. Absolutely no comparison. Is one needed, probably not but is very nice. Is a large,heavy fifth wheel needed, probably not but is very nice.

[consolenut]

finally a thread on this issue. These 350 and 3500 on steroids as the ratings and advertising says. There ratings are for gooseneck flatbed and boat trailers not macho heavyweight RV's. Class 3 and Commercial class IV 450 and 550 info dead on there. These are key items that those in full time rigs need to be aware of. One item to consider is gear ratios available in the commercial trucks. You can get alot higher numerically and lower ratios to get that load moving. Engine reduced power made up by rear gear. Can move the world with a big enough torque multiplier. 8-10 speed transmissions make so much difference. All the go down low and still reasonable highway speed and low rpm for fuel economy. Another reason they have tow haul buttons. They lock the transmission out of those crazy overdrives to keep the trans from getting to hot. so really best of both worlds. Towing and empty.