Disappointed in Keystone

[chief2015]

After being a proud owner of a 2003 Cougar 5th wheel for over 14 years with zero problems, we decided to purchase a new 2018 Cougar TT due to our past experience with Keystone. Wow, what a complete shock at the apparent total lack of pride, craftsmanship and quality control, not to mention customer service (which ended after the contract was signed). After the "maiden voyage" it went back to the dealer for almost two months, after waiting a month to get it in to be fixed. More than 10 discrepancies had to be corrected, one which caused to trailer to fill up with carbon monoxide. Thank God we were awake and the alarm was working. The 2nd outing resulted in 15 more discrepancies, some of the more serious include flooring coming up throughout trailer and the A/C unit coming loose. The cable/satellite was inop due to the cable to the entertainment center ending in the ceiling halfway to the wall. Customer service solution was take it to the dealer for resolution. So our new trailer is going back for what will most likely be another extended stay at the dealer. After talking to several other "old time" Keystone owners, it appears that the problems started shortly after Thor took over Keystone a few years ago. Anyone else having issues with their new Keystone products?

[bob91yj]

Thankfully we have had no issues with ours. We are stationary full timers, so not a lot of road miles on it yet.

[plasma800]

Sadly, this is the norm these days.

[Bud03]

I agree, very little quality control with Keystone products. And dealership support takes forever. Just purchased a 2018 Laredo 5r very disappointed.

[R.Greene]

We bought a new 2018 Cougar 310RLS fifth wheel in the spring this year. Have had issues from the day we did the demo at the dealer. We should have never taken this new trailer home! A multitude of smaller issues with quality and workmanship, along with a very poor dealership preparation. The main issue we were having is the inability of the a/c to bring down the temperature in the trailer to a livable temp. A/C checks out properly, according to the temperature checks, 20 deg between the intake and discharge. Problem is the lack of airflow through the duct system. Dealer says it is normal and said that they sealed some leaks. I have rechecked the sealing of the duct system and found a multitude of leaks into the roof area. Sealed all leaks between the intake side and discharge, sealed the ceiling vents to the ducts, inspected the duct work with an inspection camera. Still has almost no air flow to the front bedroom area at all, makes for an uncomfortable sleep. Our last trailer was a Riverside 32RLS, best a/c cooling we ever had, didn't matter the outdoor temperature and humidity level, set the thermostat on auto and it would be cycling on and off within an hour. The only way to have this new unit at a comfortable temperature is to have it in a full shade and run the a/c on the coldest possible temp and high fan. We have had trailers for years and all different manufacturers, this one is the most disappointing trailer we have ever had. I would never buy a keystone product again. The issue list we have is long and valid. No concerns with blinds not working or trim falling off. Island was installed too close to the door side causing the cabinet handle to chafe on the refrigerator door, the fuse for the fridge was not seated in the terminals correctly in the electrical panel, fuse burnt (not blown) and lost all the contents of the freezer and fridge. There is a bolt coming up through the flooring by the kitchen island after a 200 km trip. The list goes on. Should have left it at the dealer!

[plasma800]

Originally Posted by R.Greene

We bought a new 2018 Cougar 310RLS fifth wheel in the spring this year. Have had issues from the day we did the demo at the dealer. We should have never taken this new trailer home! A multitude of smaller issues with quality and workmanship, along with a very poor dealership preparation. The main issue we were having is the inability of the a/c to bring down the temperature in the trailer to a livable temp. A/C checks out properly, according to the temperature checks, 20 deg between the intake and discharge. Problem is the lack of airflow through the duct system. Dealer says it is normal and said that they sealed some leaks. I have rechecked the sealing of the duct system and found a multitude of leaks into the roof area. Sealed all leaks between the intake side and discharge, sealed the ceiling vents to the ducts, inspected the duct work with an inspection camera. Still has almost no air flow to the front bedroom area at all, makes for an uncomfortable sleep. Our last trailer was a Riverside 32RLS, best a/c cooling we ever had, didn't matter the outdoor temperature and humidity level, set the thermostat on auto and it would be cycling on and off within an hour. The only way to have this new unit at a comfortable temperature is to have it in a full shade and run the a/c on the coldest possible temp and high fan. We have had trailers for years and all different manufacturers, this one is the most disappointing trailer we have ever had. I would never buy a keystone product again. The issue list we have is long and valid. No concerns with blinds not working or trim falling off. Island was installed too close to the door side causing the cabinet handle to chafe on the refrigerator door, the fuse for the fridge was not seated in the terminals correctly in the electrical panel, fuse burnt (not blown) and lost all the contents of the freezer and fridge. There is a bolt coming up through the flooring by the kitchen island after a 200 km trip. The list goes on. Should have left it at the dealer!

I’ve heard this story more than a bunch of times ...


They sell you a poorly made product, then they take your money, the. They tell you all of the problems are normal or they hastily patch up the issues you caught , yet they don’t try to make things right and ready BEFORE the sale , leaving it up to you to catch what you catch

It’s a terrible business practice

[Traveln]

Had a new little 2016 Keystone Springdale 189 for about a year (full timing), and traded it in on a larger used 2013 Keystone Outback 316RL and had it for about 18 months (full timing also) … almost no issues with either except a little fussing with the refrigerators and each time used a local mobile company that took care of warranty on them. Luckily never had to interact with Keystone or the Stealership again. I always suggest finding an honest local mobile mech and doing what you can with them. Full time park people usually have someone they can vouch for. Again, our units were not moved, but had high usage and regular upkeep. I will mention our units did not seem as well insulated as other higher end neighbors (more A/C and heater time - which gets both $ and tiring) so that would be an issue in my next purchase. The higher end units (all different manufacturers) had mechs there about comparable to ours. Good luck!

[Dfb]

Our 92000 Montana 3610 legacy has been a constant problem. Black valve would not close, water heater no worky on ac, fan blades falling off, shower door handles fallinf off. Slide grabbing cabinet doors and ripping them apart. Slide gears on large slide out stripping out. Last trip to Vegas rear leaf spring bolt came out. Gas regulator leaked propane, cargo door screws all ripped out of door. the black trim above the sides near the roof disintegration.. they came down. Toilet never held water. Fridge quit working, front right tire wears extremely fast.. im so upset that if all of us dropped our headaches off at the banks we got loans, banks woul no longer loan on them.. Maybe then Thor would listen..hmmm.. idea, call our loan people and tell them not to make loans on these products... just an idea.Keystone will not help on any issues!. Ever! They reply, "Call your dealer", "sorry, your warrenty just expired".. several folks commented in our travels about our Montana and asked if we liked ours as they were going to buy one. After telling them our experiences we basically said if its Thor, run dont walk..If you really insist, buy a used one. At 2 years old they are only worth 50 percent of .msrp.. we are currently looking for a K-Z ESCALADE before thor took them over..

[00 Buckshot]

It's not just Keystone.

[WantAB]

I will confess. During the mid 1970s and into the early 1980s I was a RV Draftsmen/Engineer. When gasoline hit $1 a gallon and the RV industry folded I changed careers. Confession over.

The majority of the factory workers are paid piece rate. $X amount per unit that went through an employee's department. Employees got paid the same if it took them 4 hours or 8 hours. After the days quota was met the employee(s) would leave for the day. This pay method encourage employees to complete their work as quickly as possible.

You know how some would make a hole in the floor for a gas line? A hard hammer strike on the particle board flooring! Linoleum would cover the oversized hole.

We had a unit that the delivery driver returned when he saw in his rear-view mirror the whole front of the coach flexing upward as he was driving down the road. The front half of both sidewalls and the front wall were never fasten to the flooring!

The employee who decided one size and very long screw would work on all of his trim fastening tasks. Took a while to trace back why some units were overheating. Too long of screws were piercing the radiators in a very hard location to spot.

When a unit cost a lot less then a higher priced unit, there is a good reason. Cheap does not translate to a "Good" deal.

[Dfb]

Originally Posted by 00 Buckshot

It's not just Keystone.

NO, it's just THOR!...

[Dfb]

Originally Posted by WantAB

I will confess. During the mid 1970s and into the early 1980s I was a RV Draftsmen/Engineer. When gasoline hit $1 a gallon and the RV industry folded I changed careers. Confession over.

The majority of the factory workers are paid piece rate. $X amount per unit that went through an employee's department. Employees got paid the same if it took them 4 hours or 8 hours. After the days quota was met the employee(s) would leave for the day. This pay method encourage employees to complete their work as quickly as possible.

You know how some would make a hole in the floor for a gas line? A hard hammer strike on the particle board flooring! Linoleum would cover the oversized hole.

We had a unit that the delivery driver returned when he saw in his rear-view mirror the whole front of the coach flexing upward as he was driving down the road. The front half of both sidewalls and the front wall were never fasten to the flooring!

The employee who decided one size and very long screw would work on all of his trim fastening tasks. Took a while to trace back why some units were overheating. Too long of screws were piercing the radiators in a very hard location to spot.

When a unit cost a lot less then a higher priced unit, there is a good reason. Cheap does not translate to a "Good" deal.

92000 Is not cheap... and worth 1/2 in 3 years is REALY NOT CHEAP...

[Dfb]

Originally Posted by chief2015

After being a proud owner of a 2003 Cougar 5th wheel for over 14 years with zero problems, we decided to purchase a new 2018 Cougar TT due to our past experience with Keystone. Wow, what a complete shock at the apparent total lack of pride, craftsmanship and quality control, not to mention customer service (which ended after the contract was signed). After the "maiden voyage" it went back to the dealer for almost two months, after waiting a month to get it in to be fixed. More than 10 discrepancies had to be corrected, one which caused to trailer to fill up with carbon monoxide. Thank God we were awake and the alarm was working. The 2nd outing resulted in 15 more discrepancies, some of the more serious include flooring coming up throughout trailer and the A/C unit coming loose. The cable/satellite was inop due to the cable to the entertainment center ending in the ceiling halfway to the wall. Customer service solution was take it to the dealer for resolution. So our new trailer is going back for what will most likely be another extended stay at the dealer. After talking to several other "old time" Keystone owners, it appears that the problems started shortly after Thor took over Keystone a few years ago. Anyone else having issues with their new Keystone products?

Another "not Satisfied Customer" from Thor... I think we should call our finance people and tell them NEVER to Loan on a Thor Product... Maybe if banks would not loan on them due to lack of quality, lack of Customer Support, and a general they dont give a poop attitude they will make changes.. Maybe they should fire their CEO...

[BPTS]

We had a 2016 Outback 220URB. It was a decent unit for a 1st trailer, no major issues. I have owned various truck campers through the years, fixing them up and modifying them as I saw fit. I even rebuilt the cab over section on a 2002 Lance camper so I am very familiar with construction and support systems for a trailer.
I knew it wasn't perfect but didnt see any insurmountable issues.
We took it to Estes Park in September and it dropped down to 30ish degrees at night. The heater ran constantly and the trailer never got over 60 degrees that night. I noticed there was barely any airflow out of the vents.
When I got it home I dropped the coroplast "basement" cover and was appalled by what I saw.
Trash, chunks of wire, wood cutouts.
The heat ducting consisted of about 60' of the really cheap dryer vent hose snaked all over the basement. Half of it was crushed and some had big cuts.
The runs to the 2 heat vents were only about 4 and 8 feet from the furnace. $20 worth of metal ducting made for a much better system.
But as I spent more time under it I became much more dismayed. The wiring was an absolute mess, numerous bare wires showing at splices, pinched wires, the 12v positive was sandwiched between the frame and the fresh water tank, basically crushed.
The main beams of the frames are piecemeal weldments of probably 11 gauge sheet steel and quite a few of the welds looked like they were done by Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles. Just horrible.
Then I noticed the fastening system for the cabinetry to the floors- deck screws. Now if the floor was 3/4" plywood ok, but the floor on an Ultra Light is a sandwich, 1/4 Luan, 1 1/2" foam and another layer of 1/4 Luan. No screwholding ability whatsoever. There were screw heads that had been driven right through the ply into the foam. I had visions of going down a Forest Service road for 1/2 mile, pulling into the campsite only to find the cabinetry on the floor.
I totally lost all confidence in the unit.
Buttoned it back up, hauled it 150 miles and traded it in on a 2019 Outdoors RV 24RLS.

There is no comparison between the 2.

But I guess Indiana meth heads working is better than them stealing the copper pipes from vacant houses.