Lippert 414850 / 179327 Motor - Replacement & Alternate Source

[B polizzi]

Installed new brushes, cleaned & tested the armature and re-installed the original motor. Works like a new one!!
I will keep the $400 Western as a spare motor.

Next issue is that my "jacks down" light wont go off unless I unplug the pressure switch. I removed and disassembled the Nason pressure switch and it seems to bench test fine. It is normally closed and opens when I press the internal button. after reassembly it remains "closed" can't bench test further than that, (hard to reproduce 2075psi). But reinstalled, after the first run, it remains closed. Not sure if the switch is sticking or I'm not building enough pressure in the valve body. Jacks go up just fine and you can hear the pump change tone when fully retracted.

[RVNewB0321]

Can you share the link and the parts you replaced? I'm not finding what I think i need. Also I have my motor apart but I cant get the back nut off, any trick to getting that nut off?

[RVNewB0321]

Quick update, the $400 WMS motor is US made Vs. $800 China made version if you get it from LCI. They both come with a 1 year warranty and they both have a manual retract function on the back. The old version of the WMS did not have the manual retract option and was slightly cheaper.

I still plan to rebuild the original, any help on that would be appreciated.

[carl.swoyer]

Originally Posted by f15epilot

Posting this in the Travel Supreme forum since, well, it's on my ME "Unikorn" Toy Hauler. Yes, I know all (as far as I know) other TS have Leveling Systems, not LCI or Lippert. Still, the title should let others with LCI/Lippert systems find the info.



I replaced the original jack hydraulic system (it tapped the coach hydraulics at the power steering...so no 'manual retract' and a leak meant you could not drive!) with a LCI/Lippert pump/reservoir. The jack legs were/are PowerGear, now Lippert. See previous post on that install.



This past weekend after being parked for four days, I hit the retract and all seemed well, except the "Jacks Down" kept momentarily coming on. Checked the jacks and all were up (they are power up/down; no springs), so pressed towards home. After noticing that each momentary flash was accompanied with a momentary voltage drop, it became apparent the system was trying to get the 3000psi "UP" pressure by cycling the pump...I thought. Eventually, the light went steady followed by the alarm. I pulled into a parking lot and found a VERY hot motor in the compartment. OK...disconnected the harness to kill the alarm and went home uneventfully.



Lippert has a handy troubleshooting guide, which I followed and confirmed that indeed, the motor was bad...as in frozen...as in, the manual nut used to manually retract would not budge. Guessing it was melted internally, I pulled it apart. That is actually quite simple: disconnect power, loosen the band clamp that holds the solenoid in place, remove the wire from the solenoid to motor (+) and slide the solenoid off, then remove two 4mm allen screws (top and bottom) and the motor comes out. Just be sure to catch the drive coupling.



On mine, unlike a lot of the 2006-07 Monaco folks (see writeups on that forum), my pump was clearly well sealed and dry. The coupling was clean and the factory blue grease clean. I could, however, smell burnt motor windings. I removed the manual retract nut (it is reverse threaded), removed the two long bolts, and tapping the case, pulled the motor apart.

Yep...fried. It appears one of the armature windings went bad and/or a bad brush or both. So...need a new motor.



Here's what anyone with one of these systems (ask the Monaco folks) will tell you...motors are NOT cheap. The RV dealerships want over a GRAND for just the motor. Lippert wants $977.38 (oh, with free shipping), and even Amazon is $800+ depending on source. Needing the motor by Thursday, I ordered the Amazon one Tuesday night. And that is where it got interesting.



You see, if you call a parts department and ask for this 414850 motor that I pulled off Attachment 257017, they will not usually find it.







But if you give them the 179327 number, it will show up. That is what I ordered. What arrived? See pic #2. Attachment 257018





Yep...it's labeled 414850, just a later serial number. I installed it in under an hour to include adding a 60amp C/B in a more convenient spot. And it works like a champ...arguably quieter.



SO...nope, not the end of the story. I know motors can be rebuilt; even Sailor Lou has a post on another site saying as much about this very motor. That led me to searching for a 414850 rebuilding source and what did I find? Western Motors Service Company in Rockford, IL. Turns out, they MAKE a W-414850 motor that is a replacement for the 414850...same .256in slot shaft, .8KW 12V motor as that 179327. One BIG difference...theirs is $385! WOW...less than HALF the price of anywhere else that sells the official 179327.



Yep...half temped to order one from WMS and send it back as a return to Amazon...but my integrity is worth more than what I'd save.



HOPEFULLY...anyone needing to replace their motor will see this and save themselves a LOT of diesel money.

I took my hydraulic motor to an alternator shop and he rebuilt it for under $200.00 verses $1200.00 for a new one.
Works great.
Maybe send yours in for repair.

[B polizzi]

Remember that nut is left handed so, clockwise to remove.

[Golfbum18]

Thanks so much for this...just had this "Jacks down" error and no motor to get it back up just clicking and a real annoying beeping every 3 sec....tracked it to the pump motor and got the 990 quote from Lippert....LOL Ya....thanks to you I have a good idea of the process and found, your recommendation, a good dealer that isn't out to run that corncob any further up that necessary. I take it it wasn't a complicated swamp out when you replaced the motor into the compartment.

[Golfbum18]

Originally Posted by Klingon

Hi, I just received and installed same motor from Western and it may be running backwards. When I switch the leads, does the smaller gauge wire currently on the negative post get switched over to the positive post as well? Thanks!

I know what you're saying....how did this go for you. The 2 fat wires get swapped over ok...but there is a skinny one on the left hand post that goes over to the solenoid....does this get switch over too or is it some ground wire that can stay on that left post?

[Golfbum18]

Originally Posted by B polizzi

Here's the update on the Western Motor Service replacement. The good: Half the price and it does work for this application. The bad: Wrong rotation if connected as marked (+ - ), smaller overall length of case and no access on the end cap to manually spin with drill if needed. I will be sending my original motor to them for evaluation and hopefully a rebuild. will update with the status of that.

I know what you're saying....how did this go for you. The 2 fat wires get swapped over ok...but there is a skinny one on the left hand post that goes over to the solenoid....does this get switch over too or is it some ground wire that can stay on that left post?

[Golfbum18]

Originally Posted by Graderman

Yep. They both switch over. I finished my install and took it out for a test weekend. Worked great. Seems like the motor moves a little quicker also. Will post some pics when I get to my desk.

I see you said that both wires have to come over from the left hand post...the larger diameter black and another smaller one that looks like it goes to the solenoid. Is this correct? When you brought the smaller one to the right had post if you did, was it long enough to get over there or did you do another length wire?

[bogeyd]

The fuse sizing for this motor at 50 amps is bound to blow as the motor is a .8 kw motor divided by say 13 volts is 61.5 amps at full load plus some frictional losses would make me think that a 65 amp fuse would be pretty appropriate wire size required using 75 deg wire would be #6 awg which when i look at my itasca wiring is of that size at motor.

[JMUskyhigh21]

All,

Our 414850 went out last weekend. After tracing the 12V all the way back and finding the motor was bad, I took your advise and contacts Western Motor Service Company 2018 WMS1 CATALOG 2018-2019 Western Motor Service and they had a new motor shipped to me in 2 days.

I put it on last night and everything fired right back up. Lippert is now wanting upwards of $1200 for this replacement motor. Janet at WMS got me a US made motor for $400 exact. Give them a call if you need this motor replaced! Great people and the customer service was awesome.

WMS: 1-800-810-0401

I also replaced the contactor/relay with one from Amazon for about $20. Lippert wanted $105.

Got a replacement Coupler from www.RVUpgrades.com P/N 286722

Cheers!

[Braggs]

Hey all, great information in this post. Many thanks and much money saved!

Our leveling pump motor went out last week while traveling to Galveston, TX. It was acting up several times before it finally quit. When retracting and leveling, it would bog down and I could see the lights dim from the power drain. Then it would stop and try again. Finally it gave up the ghost and all the lights on the pad just started blinking. I tried the pad reset procedure a few times (press all 4 direction buttons at once) but nothing would happen when pushing the retract button, just more errors and lights blinking. The legs were still down partially so I used a drill to manually retract the cylinders. This got us on our way but left me with a broken leveling system.

So I called around and nobody could find the 414850 number in their system but they did find the 179327. One place wanted $1,600 for just the motor!!! After much searching, I found this thread and gave Western Motor Service Company a call. The lady that answered the phone quoted off the part number before I even gave it to her! They know what we're looking for and say it's quite a popular motor. They had it for $395 plus shipping.

2008 Damon Astoria

[Golfbum18]

Originally Posted by B polizzi

Installed new brushes, cleaned & tested the armature and re-installed the original motor. Works like a new one!!
I will keep the $400 Western as a spare motor.

Next issue is that my "jacks down" light wont go off unless I unplug the pressure switch. I removed and disassembled the Nason pressure switch and it seems to bench test fine. It is normally closed and opens when I press the internal button. after reassembly it remains "closed" can't bench test further than that, (hard to reproduce 2075psi). But reinstalled, after the first run, it remains closed. Not sure if the switch is sticking or I'm not building enough pressure in the valve body. Jacks go up just fine and you can hear the pump change tone when fully retracted.

Any tips you can offer for the rebuild. I have the old motor in a box and wouldn't mind having a spare. Not someone that has worked with this type of thing, motors etc so looking for any hints

[Robinson RV]

Originally Posted by Golfbum18

Any tips you can offer for the rebuild. I have the old motor in a box and wouldn't mind having a spare. Not someone that has worked with this type of thing, motors etc so looking for any hints

I took mine apart and the brushes were stuck down in the holders not making contact. Disassembled and polished the brushes a bit to allow them to move freely. Also had ATF everywhere so I cleaned it all and installed a new seal on the drive shaft to the pump. Old seal was 10 x 22 x 8mm , couldnt find that one easily but found a 10x22x7mm wide seal on Amazon for $7. Also replaced a few orings in the pump to reservoir assy to remove all of the leaks