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Old 07-15-2015, 06:39 PM   #1
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What did I get myself into? 05 TS Envoy 38sd04

I'm new to the form and I love all the wonderful information and knowledge that is shared, I hope I can provide the same knowledge and experience to everyone also. I had a Winnebago Sightseer and loved it. Than last month my wife and I wanted to upgrade and I wanted a diesel and we fell in love with 05 TS Envoy 38SD04. We purchased on a Thursday, got it ready and took it out that weekend. We drove up to Williams AZ for the three day weekend and was that an adventure we will not forget.
1. Main light fuse for marker/headlights and dash lights keeps blowing.
2. Slide outs won't go in all the way.
3. Door won't close while driving.
4. Coach batteries keeping dying won't hold a charge
5. Self-levelers won't level on there own
6. Front air line sound like air is sepping out
7. Driver side windshield pops out while driving down the freeway
8. Slide out brackets were welded by a moron who doesn't know the first thing about welding.
Don't get me wrong, TS Envoy is a spectacular looking MH, but what did I get myself into, and is there light at the end of the tunnel?
We drove it back to the dealer where we purchased it at, went to the slime ball sales man and asked him, in what planet did this 114 point inspection get done on. He says, this is the service departments problem I'm just a salesmen I don't work on these I just sell them. "Sorry"! What the, talk about passing the buck. So make this story short, it stayed in the service department for the entire month of June, all they did was put a new switch for the turn signal in for the short on the lights, new/used battery's for the coach, I say used cause they are already dying, had a glass company come and put the windshield back in. Xbrace recommend, all the rest, they did nothing. Said the batteries fixed all the other problems, and we were told this so fast that the service manager was unable to go over cause he had an emergency in his family and the shop and service department is closed, so he had to go, and that he was really sorry for any inconvience that this may cause. Have a wonderful weekend. Jumped in his truck and took off. So my question too all of you fine knowledgeable experience TS Owners will this get better, or is this going to be a purchase that I'm going to regret?
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Old 07-15-2015, 07:08 PM   #2
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Frank,
It will get Better! OK, I can only help with a couple of things.
1 & 4. Sounds to me like these are related problems. Sounds like a short in one of the lighting circuits. Would be interesting to pull the fuse for the headlights, turn signals and marker lights and see if the batteries still discharge. If not, then put them back in one at a time and check for discharging of batteries.
2. Slideouts not going in all the way. Both top and bottom? Or just bottom or top? There are adjustment nuts underneath that can be reset to fix this.
5. Self Levelers. If it's an Equalizer System, then it may just be a case of resetting the "Null". Go to the Equalizer web site and download the manual. Procedure written up in there.
6. Air seeping from front air line. Probably needs the Ride Height Adjustment valves adjusted. Could also need a new valve. Not a big deal. Search the forum for Ride Height valve and you'll find the procedure.
7. Windshield popping out. Take the rig to a GOOD auto glass place. They need to pull the windshield, clean out the frame reseal it properly and replace.


Cross Bracing is something that many have done to their rigs, myself included (40DS02). If you are up for it, Precision Paint is THE place to go if you can get there. They know our Travel Supreme coaches and do Good Work.


Hope this helps at least a little bit.


Drew
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Old 07-15-2015, 07:56 PM   #3
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Drew's points are excellent.

#3 door doesn't close? Or, lots of wind noise? If it has Teflon plunger and pin that engages when parking brake is disengaged then that's an easy fix.

X-bracing maybe, but doubt it. Probably popped by someone at some point not knowing how to level and then hasn't been set right. Don't ask me how I know. Been there.

Didn't see where you live, but if you're close to brennen Indiana it'd be worth it to take to precision paint. That way you get it fixed properly. Depends on where you're at & how much you trust the service department that sold it to you. Might get some concessions from them. I'm quite confident Paul @ PP can get it right, but how much $s?

Good luck. It'll be a good coach once the various issues are resolved.

Again, work through Drew's list.
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Old 07-15-2015, 09:50 PM   #4
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Again! I agree with Drew, Old Hatt 45; Also, Spartan has a good inspection and air level. Check out the Spartan web site. Now; legal service check out rvforensics.com.
Was this MH in a wreck? and parted back together? Best of Luck....
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Old 07-16-2015, 08:56 AM   #5
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and the TS family
I would think the dealer would stand behind their unit ... if not, I'd be tempted to return it to them and look for another unit ..... too many issues !!!
These are great units, but like anything else, if not cared for properly can be not so good.
Good luck with getting this resolved ....
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Old 07-16-2015, 10:01 AM   #6
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Frank,

I have the exact same rig and mine has been almost flawless for the 6 years I have owned it, so don't give up. I agree the folks at Precision can and will fix it right, but that will be on your dime so for now I would continue to hammer the dealer as much as possible. The only down side to that is from what I have read online, the Service Dept's. at many dealers are not that good and maybe they are beyond their capabilities. The good news is that overall it appears you have a few relatively small issues causing the various problems.

#1 & #4: As usual, I agree with Drew on everything he stated. The electrical problems sound related and changing the switch probably did little to correct that issue. If you pull the fuses one at a time as suggested you may be able to find the battery drain. Do you own and know how to use both a volt and ammeter?

#2: The slide issues are most likely adjustments and once you provide the answers to the questions Drew asked we will be able to provide assistance.

#3: The Envoy was TS's entry level rig and does not have the automatic plunger to lock the door. Do you lock both the door and deadbolt when traveling? I had to adjust the striker plate to get my door to close tightly and now when we travel we need to pull the door in against the door gasket in order to lock the deadbolt, which provides a tight seal.

#5: As recommended, check out the Equalizer System manual for "resetting the null" to get the levelers to work in the auto-level mode. It's pretty easy to do from the control pad and does not require any tools.

#6: Other than momentary adjustments by the ride height valves you should not hear any air leaks. If this is not the case, the source of the leak(s) need to be found. If you can not located it by sound, a bottle with soapy water sprayed on all the pneumatic components and air lines is the best way to find an air leak.

BIG, BIG, BIG CAUTION: Whatever you do, do not crawl under the MOHO unless the frame is blocked with properly rated jackstands or solid wood blocking. There is insufficient space for a person under the rig when the air suspension is fully deflated and you do not want to be under there poking around on the suspension hardware unprotected.

#7: Regarding the windshield popping out, although this is a common TS issue this is the first time I have read about it on the smaller rigs (<40'). The cross bracing would certainly help the chassis overall, but may not be necessary. As suggested, I would first start with a good RV glass installer to see what they recommend. It might have been replaced at one time improperly or with a slightly smaller glass.

#8: I'm not a welding expert, but do a little MIG work on my classic car and yard machinery (plow and backhoe), so I'm familiar with seeing good and bad welds. With that said, I haven't seen anything on my TS that I would consider sub-standard. Is your problem located to a specific location, where either TS had one bad welder or possibly someone else touched it after it left the factory, or is it all over the coach? Have any of the welds broke or do they just look inadequate?

Lots of info here and we do not know how much of the hands-on you normally do, but hopefully you now have some additional info when trying to get the dealer to do what they should have done in the first place. If you do plan on taking some of this on your own, we will be eager to help you through the process. Good luck.
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Old 07-16-2015, 10:48 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor_lou View Post
Frank,

I have the exact same rig and mine has been almost flawless for the 6 years I have owned it, so don't give up. I agree the folks at Precision can and will fix it right, but that will be on your dime so for now I would continue to hammer the dealer as much as possible. The only down side to that is from what I have read online, the Service Dept's. at many dealers are not that good and maybe they are beyond their capabilities. The good news is that overall it appears you have a few relatively small issues causing the various problems.

#1 & #4: As usual, I agree with Drew on everything he stated. The electrical problems sound related and changing the switch probably did little to correct that issue. If you pull the fuses one at a time as suggested you may be able to find the battery drain. Do you own and know how to use both a volt and ammeter?

#2: The slide issues are most likely adjustments and once you provide the answers to the questions Drew asked we will be able to provide assistance.

#3: The Envoy was TS's entry level rig and does not have the automatic plunger to lock the door. Do you lock both the door and deadbolt when traveling? I had to adjust the striker plate to get my door to close tightly and now when we travel we need to pull the door in against the door gasket in order to lock the deadbolt, which provides a tight seal.

#5: As recommended, check out the Equalizer System manual for "resetting the null" to get the levelers to work in the auto-level mode. It's pretty easy to do from the control pad and does not require any tools.

#6: Other than momentary adjustments by the ride height valves you should not hear any air leaks. If this is not the case, the source of the leak(s) need to be found. If you can not located it by sound, a bottle with soapy water sprayed on all the pneumatic components and air lines is the best way to find an air leak.

BIG, BIG, BIG CAUTION: Whatever you do, do not crawl under the MOHO unless the frame is blocked with properly rated jackstands or solid wood blocking. There is insufficient space for a person under the rig when the air suspension is fully deflated and you do not want to be under there poking around on the suspension hardware unprotected.

#7: Regarding the windshield popping out, although this is a common TS issue this is the first time I have read about it on the smaller rigs (<40'). The cross bracing would certainly help the chassis overall, but may not be necessary. As suggested, I would first start with a good RV glass installer to see what they recommend. It might have been replaced at one time improperly or with a slightly smaller glass.

#8: I'm not a welding expert, but do a little MIG work on my classic car and yard machinery (plow and backhoe), so I'm familiar with seeing good and bad welds. With that said, I haven't seen anything on my TS that I would consider sub-standard. Is your problem located to a specific location, where either TS had one bad welder or possibly someone else touched it after it left the factory, or is it all over the coach? Have any of the welds broke or do they just look inadequate?

Lots of info here and we do not know how much of the hands-on you normally do, but hopefully you now have some additional info when trying to get the dealer to do what they should have done in the first place. If you do plan on taking some of this on your own, we will be eager to help you through the process. Good luck.
Hi All..
Would like to add a bit to number 3 of lou's post.. While recently at Precision Paint we addressed the wind noise issue by applying a moulded urethane product that looks like it might be for drip rail etc. just before the door frame.. Worked like a charm.. No more cornering wind noise etc.
The other stuff.. Should be able to work through that..
And as pointed out.. If possible go to Precision Paint and Interior.. They KNOW what they are doing..
Ron Husak
Just back from a couple of weeks at Steamboat Springs Colorado!
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Old 07-16-2015, 07:04 PM   #8
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Ok, Drew, Dale, Redonion, Hal, Lou and Ron I have to say, Thank You first for all the info that you're supplying and I will be working on it this weekend.
1. The service department put a new turn signal and high beam and cruise control switch in, it was the high beams that was shorting out the driving lights and dash lights.
2. The passenger side front slide out, Bottom is not coming in all the way, if I push it back out and in again a few times it will work. But, I shouldn't have to do that. The driver side front slide out, is resting on the frame of the door below, I don't think that should be that way.
3. Re-adjusted the striker plate and the latch and its closing better, just need to pull on the door a little harder to close. We can get by with that.
4. Will be testing everything this weekend, I have a volt/amp meter
5. That too will be testing or should I say resting that this weekend.
6. The air is coming from the passenger side front wheel, just behind where you see all those airlines. If I touch this particular one, it stops.
7. The windshields were both taken out, cleaned and scraped of any particulates that could possibly cause a problem were removed, and the windshield was re-seated, caulked. As of right now, no issues.
I live in Las Vegas and the rv dealer that we purchased the MH from, is a well known company, they took the MH for a month and said they fixed all of those issues, we took it out last week and as you can see only a few things were fixed. I'm mechanically inclined and capable of handling pretty much of this myself, with a great deal of help, reading the irv2 forms for the past week in half and have taken, the knowledge and expertise information that a lot of you have provide to other TS owners. I Thank You and appreciate your feed back. Thank you and I will send photos of the weld job and the slide out sitting on the rail of the door.
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Old 07-25-2015, 06:50 PM   #9
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Thanks for all the great help, I've fixed everything that I posted. I've tried to upload photos, but just not having luck on uploading from my iPad. Working on other projects, replacing all my lights with LED from the interior to the exterior and it look good. Also looking at upgrading my batteries with some Trojon 6volt 3 to 4 depending on how many I can add?
Once I figure this iPad out, I will upload the photos.

May the roads you travel, bring you great adventures!
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Old 07-26-2015, 07:43 AM   #10
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Frank,


Glad you got everything sorted out!!!!!
The guys on the forum are pretty knowledgeable and at least one of us has probably had and fixed any problem you can come up with. LOL


Also, for future reference, the Spartan Customer Service guys are great to work with regarding any chassis problems. Don't be afraid to call them. They also have lots of diagrams and procedures that they will/can send you, but only if you ask for them. The Spartan info is Chassis specific so you need the last 6 digits of your VIN number when talking to them.


Happy travels and stay in touch,


Drew
2003 - 40DS02
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Old 08-02-2015, 12:09 PM   #11
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Driver side slide out rubbing on fram?

The photo is of the front slide out just behind the driver seat, the bracket for the slide out is the back furthest away from driver, which is sitting on the frame of the door. is this adjustable?
The last photo is of the poor welding job that I had mentioned, is this manufacture doing?

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Thanks
May the Roads you Travel, Bring you Great Adventures!
Frank
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