Community Forums

Mike&Chris · 02-15-2017, 06:14 PM

We had our first extended dry camping experience last week in Big Bend NP. My 17 Anthem has the 4 new batteries which are suppose to equal the amp hours of the previous years 8 batteries. This is our first MH so I don't have anything to compare to but I'm concerned the batteries are NOT holding a charge properly.

We ran the genny about 2 hours each morning and 2-3 hours between 4 -7 PM. The maximum charge I could get was 12.6 and it would start falling within 30 minutes. By 8 AM the next morning it was down between 11.7 or 11.8. This is without using any lights, no tv or other appliances except for the 2 fridges. We wore head lights after the second night in an effort to save power because no generators were allowed between 8-8; so I'm talking minimum power use. We even turned off the outdoor fridge the final 2 nights but that did not make any difference.

I called CS and was told this sounded normal as the fridges use a lot of power but that doesn't sound right to me. He also said I need to get the charge above 13 amps. What is a fully charged battery level? I thought 12.6 was fully charged.I ran the generator for 6 hours when we left and still the max I could get was 12.6 on the Vega Touch.

We are now at a CG with 50 amp, after 4 days I unplugged to test the readings. I was at 12.9 but dropped to 12.6 within a few minutes. After 5 hours of being unplugged with nothing one but the 2 fridges I was down to 12.4.

So I'm hoping some of you might can share with me what is normal and what my expectations should be. I assumed we could go one night on batteries without getting down to dangerously low battery levels.

Magic-carpet · 02-15-2017, 06:23 PM

I think the first thing I would look at is how your inverters are setup. Make sure you have the amp hours set to 800 and the battery type to AGM1 or AGM2. (AGM2 will give you better charging parameters but will not allow you to equalize the batteries.)

Hold down the "inverter" icon under the setup menu and see what you have set in there.

757Driver (Don) should be able to help you out also when he see's your question.

DSL417 · 02-15-2017, 07:00 PM

My experience with my new 8 battery pack at Quartzsite was that while after generator run the Command 30 and the Inverters would say the charge was 13.1 which quickly dropped to 12.6. Then the drop was slow down to where I set the AGS to start at 12.1. I am not comfortable with the 11.7 advocated at the factory.

During an extended dry camping in Quartzsite, I would usually turn the generator on at times we were cooking (0800 and 1730). Both times I would allow the generator to run until the AGS settings caused it to turn off. I would then run the generator from about 9:30PM till 11PM or auto shut off. Generally the generator would not come on until AGS or my start the next morning. Average generator time per day was 4.5-5 hours (note Cornerstone, however for this trip, I had removed the basement freezer).

After 4 years of not trusting this system, I now have batteries, settings, and performance I was told to expect, and I can now trust the system. Your system doesn't sound too far out of those parameters. JMHO

ditto · 02-15-2017, 07:21 PM

Mike...just a thought ...were your inverter chargers set back to original setting after the Tampa show where they were set lower to 30 amps?

Mike&Chris · 02-15-2017, 09:12 PM

Thanks Joe but the Vega makes those adjustments automatically. I checked my inverter settings and I believe them to be correct.

MoHoGo · 02-16-2017, 05:08 AM

Mike,

This is not scientific, but I will say that on our 2017 we would pull into a Walmart around 4 or 5 PM for an overnight. With some lite use of lights, 15 minutes of Microware cooking, TV and Sat for a few hours, use of the cpap and ceiling fan and one fridge that we could go to around 6 AM. AGS would start the Gen set around 12.1 volts and that is usually when we turn the microware on to heat water for coffee.

brobox · 02-16-2017, 05:11 AM

Here is a good way to test your batteries from PJ class and it does work, showed my bad battery on my classic. You may have to adjust instruction for a new model.

Have a full charge on your batteries, inverters reading "full charge" or "Float Charge"

Turn everything in the MH off and let the batteries rest for 1/2 an hour. After the 1/2 hour read each batter with a volt meter. Full charge is 12.9v so each battery should read no less that 6.45 Write the reading of each battery down and it's location.

Turn everything on in the MH even a hair dryer, put as much load on the batteries as you can. I ran everything microwave (with water inside) central vac, hair dryer, all TV's, coffee maker, lights etc. Let all of that run for 10 minutes or so. Test each battery with the volt meter again. Hopefully all batteries will still be in the 6.v range and each battery reading the same voltage. If one battery is .05v lower than the others, that battery is bad.

Use this chart to check the final condition of your batteries by reading the two batteries getting a 12v reading. The final reading will tell the condition of your batteries as you have just preformed a field load test.

twinboat · 02-16-2017, 05:36 AM

A reading of 12 volt batteries, at rest, is 12.6 volts, that's normal.

While charging the batteries, voltage should climb and reach AT LEAST 14 volts. At that point they are 80 to 85% charged. Brand of battery dictates bulk voltage.

If either of your charging systems ( inverter/charger or engine alternator ) are not getting the voltage up that high, I would suspect the batteries.

If it's just the inverter/charger, you need to check the settings, although it may be to late for your batteries.

okcnewbie · 02-16-2017, 06:02 AM

#1. You need to install a battery meter with a shunt. Only after this will you be able to stop guessing.

If either of your refers are electric than your boondocking will be cut dramatically.

Statgeek · 02-16-2017, 06:09 AM

Nobody mentioned this... but I would also want to know if the OP's are manually charging their batteries with the generator. It sounds like they are. My batteries take quite a while to charge on generator when we are also living in the RV (thus running electricity). Maybe the OP's are never getting their batteries to a full charge to begin with?

lowejug · 02-16-2017, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike&Chris

We had our first extended dry camping experience last week in Big Bend NP. My 17 Anthem has the 4 new batteries which are suppose to equal the amp hours of the previous years 8 batteries. This is our first MH so I don't have anything to compare to but I'm concerned the batteries are NOT holding a charge properly.

We ran the genny about 2 hours each morning and 2-3 hours between 4 -7 PM. The maximum charge I could get was 12.6 and it would start falling within 30 minutes. By 8 AM the next morning it was down between 11.7 or 11.8. This is without using any lights, no tv or other appliances except for the 2 fridges. We wore head lights after the second night in an effort to save power because no generators were allowed between 8-8; so I'm talking minimum power use. We even turned off the outdoor fridge the final 2 nights but that did not make any difference.

I called CS and was told this sounded normal as the fridges use a lot of power but that doesn't sound right to me. He also said I need to get the charge above 13 amps. What is a fully charged battery level? I thought 12.6 was fully charged.I ran the generator for 6 hours when we left and still the max I could get was 12.6 on the Vega Touch.

We are now at a CG with 50 amp, after 4 days I unplugged to test the readings. I was at 12.9 but dropped to 12.6 within a few minutes. After 5 hours of being unplugged with nothing one but the 2 fridges I was down to 12.4.

So I'm hoping some of you might can share with me what is normal and what my expectations should be. I assumed we could go one night on batteries without getting down to dangerously low battery levels.

Definitely gets Nerving not knowing if your system is at its best... been there done that... it does seem from your description you are not far off from what others also experience. I know when I unplug I also go from 12.6 to 12.4 pretty quick then it dose seem to slow down from there... definitely takes 3 plus hours on the gen for a good charge.. it appears at 12.6 volt is fully charged battery as others are saying.

757driver · 02-16-2017, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike&Chris

We had our first extended dry camping experience last week in Big Bend NP. My 17 Anthem has the 4 new batteries which are suppose to equal the amp hours of the previous years 8 batteries. This is our first MH so I don't have anything to compare to but I'm concerned the batteries are NOT holding a charge properly.

We ran the genny about 2 hours each morning and 2-3 hours between 4 -7 PM. The maximum charge I could get was 12.6 and it would start falling within 30 minutes. By 8 AM the next morning it was down between 11.7 or 11.8. This is without using any lights, no tv or other appliances except for the 2 fridges. We wore head lights after the second night in an effort to save power because no generators were allowed between 8-8; so I'm talking minimum power use. We even turned off the outdoor fridge the final 2 nights but that did not make any difference.

I called CS and was told this sounded normal as the fridges use a lot of power but that doesn't sound right to me. He also said I need to get the charge above 13 amps. What is a fully charged battery level? I thought 12.6 was fully charged.I ran the generator for 6 hours when we left and still the max I could get was 12.6 on the Vega Touch.

We are now at a CG with 50 amp, after 4 days I unplugged to test the readings. I was at 12.9 but dropped to 12.6 within a few minutes. After 5 hours of being unplugged with nothing one but the 2 fridges I was down to 12.4.

So I'm hoping some of you might can share with me what is normal and what my expectations should be. I assumed we could go one night on batteries without getting down to dangerously low battery levels.

Mike,

Sorry to hear you are having troubles with your less than 1 year old batteries. Yes, you should be able to go all night without running your batteries dangerously low. Here are my comments, observations, and suggestions.

Your house battery bank has a total of 780 AH IF your batteries are fully charged. Without a battery monitor it is difficult to judge when your batteries are fully charged. The Discover AGM batteries are fully charged when they have an at rest voltage of 12.9v, but while being lived in your batteries are never at rest.

With having both fridges on and nothing much else your average draw should be around 25 AH. From 8:00 pm to 8:00 am you should consume only 300 amps which is 38.5 % of your total capacity IF you were fully charged. With your batteries down at 11.7-11.8v the next morning you were around 75% discharged. I suspect you were not fully charged to start with but, with the amount of time you ran the generator the night before you should have been around 85-90% charged at 07:00 pm. By 07:00 am the next morning your batteries should have been approximately 50% SOC or 12.0-12.1v not 11.7-11.8v. After 3 hours of generator run time your chargers would have completed the Bulk and Absorb phase and would have been in Float.

Some things to check on the Vegatouch panel:

1. Battery type, AGM1 will give an absorb charge voltage of 14.3v and a float voltage of 13.1v. AGM2 will give an absorb voltage of 14.5v and a float of 13.5v. Discover batteries recommends an absorb voltage of 14.7v and a float voltage of 13.6v. I suggest you set the battery type to AGM2 to get a better charge into the batteries. If you want to equalize each month you can switch back to AGM1 for this process and then back to AGM2. It is not possible at this time to set in custom charge settings on the Vegatouch. It is unfortunate that Entegra recommends AGM1 for the battery type when even they know that AGM2 is a better setting and gives a better charge. Perhaps Entegra could get Firefly to program in AGM2 and have it switch automatically to AGM1 for the equalization phase and then back to AGM2.

2. Battery bank size. As Jeanne suggested make sure this is set to at least 800AH. This setting controls the amount of time the batteries stay in the absorb phase. The setting of 800AH gives a 2.5 hour absorb phase. If this number is decreased the absorb time will be shorter and if this number is increased the absorb time will be longer. If I had a Vegatouch panel I would increase this to 900-1000AH in order to get an absorb time of 3.0 hours. Experimentation would need to be done to see which number produced a 3.0 hour absorb. My absorb time is set to 3.0 hours for basically the same size of battery bank as yours.

Do you have one or more bad batteries? At this point that is hard to say. Try doing Chuck's (Brobox) field battery load test or take the batteries and have them professionally load tested to determine their health. My gut feeling is your batteries are fine and just need a better charge profile of AGM2 instead of AGM1, and a longer absorb phase.

There are other limitations with the Vegatouch with regards to final charge, and charge rate but I have a few more tests to complete prior to commenting further on this.

757driver · 02-16-2017, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ditto

Mike...just a thought ...were your inverter chargers set back to original setting after the Tampa show where they were set lower to 30 amps?

This would not have an effect on the chargers in the inverters. I leave mine set on 30 amp shore power permanently and get full charge rate out of each charger while plugged into 50 amp shore power or on the generator.

Magic-carpet · 02-16-2017, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 757driver

This would not have an effect on the chargers in the inverters. I leave mine set on 30 amp shore power permanently and get full charge rate out of each charger while plugged into 50 amp shore power or on the generator.

Don,

On the Vega Touch, if you have your shore power set to 30 amp, one of the inverters shuts down. I am assuming it shuts off the charger also. Its an auto function. Turn it back up to 50 amp and it turns the second inverter back on. It does this regardless if you are plugged into 50 amp or not.

Jeanne