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Old 07-28-2016, 10:21 AM   #1
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2017 Cornerstone 45B Weights

I just returned from weighing our new Cornerstone, and am curious about the drive axle weight. I have looked on the Entegra site, and saw two different weight capabilities for the rear axle - 20,000 and 23,000 lbs. The Spartan site also shows 23,000 pounds. Is there something on the Cornerstone that limits it to 20,000? I am just curious as my drive axle weighed - 18,900 and I am partially loaded.
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Old 07-28-2016, 10:56 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbatwell View Post
I just returned from weighing our new Cornerstone, and am curious about the drive axle weight. I have looked on the Entegra site, and saw two different weight capabilities for the rear axle - 20,000 and 23,000 lbs. The Spartan site also shows 23,000 pounds. Is there something on the Cornerstone that limits it to 20,000? I am just curious as my drive axle weighed - 18,900 and I am partially loaded.
I'm pretty sure the drive axle capacity is 23,000………at least that's what it says on the spec sheet. Here are my weights, coach about 90% loaded with full fuel, 50% fresh water, approximately 20% in the black and gray tanks.

PS Front 8,920/DS Front 8,020/Total Front 16,940
PS Drive 8,780/DS Drive 9,820/Total Drive 18,600
PS Tag 5,300/DS Tag 5,900/Total Tag 11,200
Total Coach 46,740
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Old 07-28-2016, 11:36 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbatwell View Post
I just returned from weighing our new Cornerstone, and am curious about the drive axle weight. I have looked on the Entegra site, and saw two different weight capabilities for the rear axle - 20,000 and 23,000 lbs. The Spartan site also shows 23,000 pounds. Is there something on the Cornerstone that limits it to 20,000? I am just curious as my drive axle weighed - 18,900 and I am partially loaded.

If would please read us the what the data plate behind the driver's seat says on the line that starts with: R / Axle. This line shows the axle number which can be converted to its capacity.
I believe the current K3 is using a Spicer Axle where the MM is using a Meritor.
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Old 07-28-2016, 11:57 AM   #4
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If this number is: RC 23 161 it's a 23,000 cap. Further the ratio is a 4:30.

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Old 07-28-2016, 04:54 PM   #5
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Yes, it's a 23K rear axle. The tag axle is a 14K axle. When I asked Entegra, Foretravel and others why the 20K rating on the drive axle I was told that 34,000 lbs. is the limit for a pair of tandem axles. Subtract the 14K for the tag and you wind up listing it as a 20K axle. But in reality, that axle is rated for 23K. Some manufacturers list them this way and some list the full ratings of each component. It's all in how you print it.
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Old 07-28-2016, 06:47 PM   #6
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And that, my friends, is the rest of the story....

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Old 07-28-2016, 07:44 PM   #7
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Yes, it's a 23K rear axle. The tag axle is a 14K axle. When I asked Entegra, Foretravel and others why the 20K rating on the drive axle I was told that 34,000 lbs. is the limit for a pair of tandem axles. Subtract the 14K for the tag and you wind up listing it as a 20K axle. But in reality, that axle is rated for 23K. Some manufacturers list them this way and some list the full ratings of each component. It's all in how you print it.

Entegra may be blowing a little smoke here. Cruzer you have trucks don't you? It's nothing to have a tandem axle rated at 46,000 lbs. it's not illegal to have axle ratings over 34,000 just the legal weight is limited to 34,000 by federal law.

Lot of reason to have the heavier axle with heavier components like larger ring gear, heavier axle housings, larger bearings all equals longer life.

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Old 07-28-2016, 08:14 PM   #8
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It's not that Entegra is blowing smoke. It's just that they are erring on the side of safety.


I know that you can rate axles at whatever they happen to be built for. Personally, I don't see why publishing those ratings in the specs is a problem. Some manufactures do and some don't. Apparently there are two schools of thought. Some feel that it looks good on the spec sheet to state they have that capacity built into the components. On the other hand, if someone thinks they can load that 23K drive axle and 14K tag to the max they will not be hurting the coach but they will be 3,000 lbs. over the federal legal limits. The second school of thought is to lower the printed specs so that owners follow them and remain legal.

The Federal Bridge Law used to have a 20K limit on axles, which was an issue with a 40' non-tag axle coach because many exceeded 20K when loaded. In recent years an exemption was granted to busses and motorhomes that allowed them to run higher legal loads, which was raised to 25K if I recall correctly. However, the 34K tandem axle limit wasn't raised unfortunately.
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Old 07-28-2016, 08:47 PM   #9
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It's not that Entegra is blowing smoke. It's just that they are erring on the side of safety.


I know that you can rate axles at whatever they happen to be built for. Personally, I don't see why publishing those ratings in the specs is a problem. Some manufactures do and some don't. Apparently there are two schools of thought. Some feel that it looks good on the spec sheet to state they have that capacity built into the components. On the other hand, if someone thinks they can load that 23K drive axle and 14K tag to the max they will not be hurting the coach but they will be 3,000 lbs. over the federal legal limits. The second school of thought is to lower the printed specs so that owners follow them and remain legal.

The Federal Bridge Law used to have a 20K limit on axles, which was an issue with a 40' non-tag axle coach because many exceeded 20K when loaded. In recent years an exemption was granted to busses and motorhomes that allowed them to run higher legal loads, which was raised to 25K if I recall correctly. However, the 34K tandem axle limit wasn't raised unfortunately.

I agree with you there. The Spartan web site shows the drive axle as Dana Spicer RC 23 161 @ 4:30 ratio. If you go to Spicer, Dana, Eaton or what ever they call themselves now web site that axle is 23,000.

Now with that said our MM shows on the data tag the rear axle is a Meritor RS 19 144 rated at 20 K now According Meritor that axle is rated at 19K. I'm sure Spartan got the blessing from Meritor to rate it at 20K because our coaches are not consider severe service.
I just wish they would rate them for what they are and quite playing with the numbers.

Thanks Cruzer, always appreciated your post.

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Old 07-29-2016, 06:09 AM   #10
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Thanks everyone. I learned a lot from this thread.
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Old 07-29-2016, 08:23 AM   #11
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You are correct. I had the RS 19 on our last coach (Spartan MMGT chassis). It was rated at 20K so I checked with Spartan and found out that they did have it rated for 20K because of its RV application. It would be a 19K axle if used in a heavy duty application, such as over the road trucks.

Cummins and Allison do the same thing. They consider the RV vocation as less stressful than trucking or off-road use which places heavy loads on components over a longer period of running time. It's typical to never see an ISL rated at 450 HP with an Allison 3000 transmission in a city bus or truck. The power is rated at less for those vocations but RVs don't put on that many miles or run pedal to the metal all the time so we get the benefit of higher power and weight ratings.
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Old 07-31-2016, 09:32 AM   #12
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Tire Rating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzer View Post
You are correct. I had the RS 19 on our last coach (Spartan MMGT chassis). It was rated at 20K so I checked with Spartan and found out that they did have it rated for 20K because of its RV application. It would be a 19K axle if used in a heavy duty application, such as over the road trucks.

Cummins and Allison do the same thing. They consider the RV vocation as less stressful than trucking or off-road use which places heavy loads on components over a longer period of running time. It's typical to never see an ISL rated at 450 HP with an Allison 3000 transmission in a city bus or truck. The power is rated at less for those vocations but RVs don't put on that many miles or run pedal to the metal all the time so we get the benefit of higher power and weight ratings.
Check your tire ratings. At times RV manufacturers will rate the axle based on the tire. For example the 2015 Aspire has a 16,000 pounds front axle rated at 15,660 pound because of the rims and tires combination they selected to use, to keep the product price in check.
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