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Old 07-03-2018, 05:04 PM   #1
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2018 Aspire IFS Steering

I'm wondering if it is typical for the steering to lock up while the coach is not moving. In other words, is anyone out there able to turn their steering wheel while the coach is stationary, or do you need to move either forward or backward somewhat in order to be able to turn the wheel.
Ours will not turn while stationary which causes some aggravation while
maneuvering in a tight situation. I'm wondering too if this is associated with the need to saw the wheel to keep it straight on the road, even after an alignment at Josams and the steering box lash being adjusted at Spartan.

TIA for responses.
Paul
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Old 07-03-2018, 05:12 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Hivoltmaint. View Post
I'm wondering if it is typical for the steering to lock up while the coach is not moving. In other words, is anyone out there able to turn their steering wheel while the coach is stationary, or do you need to move either forward or backward somewhat in order to be able to turn the wheel.
Ours will not turn while stationary which causes some aggravation while
maneuvering in a tight situation. I'm wondering too if this is associated with the need to saw the wheel to keep it straight on the road, even after an alignment at Josams and the steering box lash being adjusted at Spartan.

TIA for responses.
Paul
Paul, I can't claim any particular expertise with regard to your question, but it sounds like the kingpins on each side of your front suspension may have been inadequately lubricated and are binding up.

I'm sure others will chime in with additional thoughts and suggestions.

You might try putting the transmission in neutral, revving the engine to say 1500 RPM, and see if you can turn the wheels then.
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Old 07-03-2018, 05:13 PM   #3
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I have a ‘17 with the same IFS, I believe. I have no problem turning the wheel when stationary.
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Old 07-03-2018, 05:29 PM   #4
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lwbaz
The front end has been lubricated. We were at Spartan a month ago and the tech looked at the king pins with me and showed me how the shims should move if lubed correctly. I even added more lube at end of that trip.


I did try the neutral and rev to no avail. I'm starting to thing this gear box might be a problem child.
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Old 07-03-2018, 06:09 PM   #5
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lwbaz
The front end has been lubricated. We were at Spartan a month ago and the tech looked at the king pins with me and showed me how the shims should move if lubed correctly. I even added more lube at end of that trip.


I did try the neutral and rev to no avail. I'm starting to thing this gear box might be a problem child.
Paul, I really hate to hear that. Our 2018 Cornerstone (Spartan K3 chassis) has driven just about awful from the get-go, with way too much slop in the on-center steering All the easy stuff has been tried – weigh the coach, adjust tire pressures accordingly, lube the king pins and other front end components, verify correct ride height, check and adjust front end alignment (twice, different shops each time), all to no avail.

I took the coach to both of the authorized Spartan service centers here in the Phoenix area, one of which did the second alignment and said they didn’t know what else to do when that didn’t fix it. At the other shop, we didn’t get any further than the service manager doing a test drive, part way through which he hit a pickup truck and sheared off my passenger side mirror. Needless to say, I didn’t go any further with that shop.

After the NIRVC Customer Appreciation Rally at WinStar in April, we drove almost 400 miles to Reyco-Granning (manufacturer of the front axle) in Mt. Vernon, Missouri where a young but probably not deeply experience technician made multiple attempts to adjust the gear lash in the steering box. His efforts made no difference either, but it did give us an opportunity to stop and take a tour of the Newell Coach manufacturing plant on our way from Mt. Vernon to Oklahoma City. (After taking the tour, I’m confident one of their coaches would fix my drivability issue, so the only thing standing in the way of that solution is a spare two million or so.)

Before leaving the Newell plant, I disabled the passive steerable tag axle by pulling a particular fuse one of the Spartan guys told me about. We drove from Miami, Oklahoma to Oklahoma City with steering movement of the tag disabled, but that didn't make any difference either.

The next attempt will come at Spartan headquarters in Charlotte, Michigan when we’re there for their Spartan Academy class the last week of August. Their best people are on the case and are assuring me they will get to the bottom of what’s going on. I’ve told them that’s good because we’re not leaving until they do, and they’ve assured me they understand.

This is our fifth motorhome over the past 20 years, so I understand things can happen and manufacturing defects can occur. What concerns me is that reading this forum over the past several months, I’m seeing a significant number of fellow Entegra owners reporting chassis related issues on brand new coaches. And I’ve seen posts suggesting a lack of attention to detail in the manufacturing process by Spartan suppliers, if not Spartan themselves.

Who to hold accountable gets kind of interesting. Starting at the top and working our way down, we have Thor Industries, Jayco, Entegra who built the motorhome, Spartan who built the chassis, Reyco Granning who built the axles, and TRW who built the steering boxes (two on our K3 chassis). But wait, there’s more – TRW is now owned by the European company ZF! That’s a lot of letters to write if such becomes necessary.

None of our previous motorhomes had a tag axle. The first was built on a Ford V10 chassis, the next two on a Freightliner rear-engine diesel chassis, the fourth on a Tiffin PowerGlide rear-engine diesel chassis, and this one on a very stout looking Spartan tag-axle chassis. I fully expected this coach to drive better than any of the previous ones; instead it drives worse than any of them with the possible exception of the Ford chassis in big crosswind.

To be clear, I have reasonably high confidence Spartan will get it figured out and resolved, but it’s more than a little disappointing to have to bounce all over the country to achieve decent drivability in a half-million dollar motorcoach. And it would be a lot easier to accept if we had the only coach with such issues. Unfortunately, the evidence I’m seeing and hearing suggests we're not exactly alone.
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Old 07-03-2018, 09:05 PM   #6
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I only have personal experience with a 2017 Aspire and a 2018 Aspire. No problems with steering on my 2018. On my girlfriend’s 2017 she complained about too tight steering and was resolved at Spartan. Neither locked up while stationary.
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Old 07-04-2018, 04:37 AM   #7
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LWBAZ, If you get a resolution at Spartan, PLEASE let me know. We have another appointment set up for next spring (if it makes it that long) and will lean on them to resolve my issue. That list of letters would be a task for sure. Good luck with your Cornerstone. By the way, the Spartan Academy is worth while and you can ask as many questions as you want and get one on one during breaks to dig deeper.

Paul
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Old 07-04-2018, 04:55 AM   #8
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We took the Spartan Academy class in Charlotte about three weeks ago. There was one couple there with a 2017 Cornerstone with King Pin issues. I believe they got them resolved over the course of the week.
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Old 07-04-2018, 09:42 AM   #9
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LWBAZ, If you get a resolution at Spartan, PLEASE let me know. We have another appointment set up for next spring (if it makes it that long) and will lean on them to resolve my issue. That list of letters would be a task for sure. Good luck with your Cornerstone. By the way, the Spartan Academy is worth while and you can ask as many questions as you want and get one on one during breaks to dig deeper.

Paul
Thanks Paul. I've heard good things about the Spartan Academy. I appreciate your endorsement and the additional info.

I'll definitely report the results of Spartan's efforts to resolve our drivability issue, hopefully with a smile on my face when I do.
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:45 AM   #10
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Well I'm scheduled in to a Spartan "Authorized" Shop in Harrisburg Pa next week. I will report back on what they find. I was able to duplicate the problem of not being able to turn the wheel while stationary, either left or right. More to follow.....

Paul
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Old 07-24-2018, 12:46 PM   #11
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Paul, I'm going to be very interested to hear what the cause of your issue turns out to be. I did have one other thought, if you haven't already tried it:

When the steering is doing what you described - locked up when the coach isn't moving and the steering wheel is positioned straight ahead - you might try using the front leveling jacks to lift the front tires off the ground and see if the lockup is still present.

If the lockup goes away, try retracting the jacks, verify the lockup returns, then use the jacks to take small increments of weight off the front tires, checking each time to see if the lockup is present or goes away.

This isn't going to fix anything, but it might provide some clues as to what's going on.

Good luck and please keep us posted!
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Old 07-24-2018, 12:59 PM   #12
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I guess we are lucky as we have had no steering issues whatsoever. Our only complaints are the porposing and the cushions don't line up perfectly on the expandable dinette. Only one of which is a real pain in the posterior.
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Old 07-24-2018, 01:39 PM   #13
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Paul, I'm going to be very interested to hear what the cause of your issue turns out to be. I did have one other thought, if you haven't already tried it:

When the steering is doing what you described - locked up when the coach isn't moving and the steering wheel is positioned straight ahead - you might try using the front leveling jacks to lift the front tires off the ground and see if the lockup is still present.

If the lockup goes away, try retracting the jacks, verify the lockup returns, then use the jacks to take small increments of weight off the front tires, checking each time to see if the lockup is present or goes away.

This isn't going to fix anything, but it might provide some clues as to what's going on.



Good luck and please keep us posted!

Larry, great idea, I'm gonna go try that now. As you state, it will not identify the problem, but be more info for the techs. Thanks.
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:44 PM   #14
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Larry, Test complete and as one would think, when weight is off of the front end, it steers freely (engine running) As weight was added (front end lowered / jacks raised) they became increasingly more difficult to turn. When jacks were completely up, returned to original status of not being able to turn. Could even hear engine labor a bit, when putting pressure on steering wheel. So I will supply the shop with this info, and see what they come up with. I also have a call into Reyco/Granning to get their input.

Thanks.
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