2019 Anthem 44F Overweight

[brobox]

Originally Posted by jadatis

A thing to consider when new drive tires are needed. All around 315 would need only one spare.

There is one major problem, clearance. The front caps had to be redesigned for the 315's to fit on the front, they use to be 295's. I am sure the rear wheel wells would also have to be redesigned as would the spacing between the duels.

[757driver]

Originally Posted by Lundman

they are using 2 scales with plywood leveling blocking under the 4 points that are not being weighed at the time.

Jon,

I don’t think a 1 or 2 scale method is very accurate. Too many variables that could throw things off.

I would find a CAT scale and weigh all three axles at once and see how it compares to NIRVC’s weight report, and go from there.

[brobox]

Originally Posted by 757driver

Jon,

I don’t think a 1 or 2 scale method is very accurate. Too many variables that could throw things off.

I would find a CAT scale and weigh all three axles at once and see how it compares to NIRVC’s weight report, and go from there.

Yep, yep and yep.

[757driver]

Originally Posted by halfmoa

I've been working the over weight front end issue on the Anthems for almost two years now. I'm with Weigh To Go, LLC, and have seen this exact problem on the earlier (2010-2013) coaches on both the Powerglide and Freightliner chassis. Working with the Tiffin engineers we were able to identify that the tag suspension was being over aired, causing the tag and front axle to carry too much load, while the drive axle had 5000-6000 lbs remaining. A simple replacement of the air valves in the tag system corrected the problem. An adjustable valve system is best, because we are able to place the coach on the scales, all 6 points, and balance the axles to ensure all are within specs.
Now, my experience with Entegra: Virtually every Anthem we've weighed is heavy on the front. Cornerstones, Aspires, etc., have all been OK. I researched the different models and found the Anthem to be the only one using the Hendrickson Tag suspension. The other models had/are using Ridewell or Reyco Granning tag suspensions. I initially took this information directly to Jayco Headquarters in Middlebury, and was received with a very cold shoulder. I sat in the waiting area 3 1/2 hrs, and the engineers who had been involved with the issue refused to come out and talk to me. I later was able to talk to a Director of Engineering R&D, and he said he would forward the info to those responsible. That was a year and a half ago. Since then I have been through the "engineering team", then to the corporate compliance manager, who is now going to refer it to the "engineering team". Very frustrating. All I'm trying to get from Entegra is simple answer to the question, "Can this problem be fixed by adjusting the tag suspension?". I've had some spartan service centers tell me they didn't think it could be adjusted, but if it uses similar design as Powerglide and Freightliner I don't see why it can't be adjusted


Several of the Anthems we weighed were, in Michelins opinion, not safe to drive because of overloaded tires. I re-referred this problem to the Compliance Manager at Jayco, and he has accepted several weigh tickets from our findings and said he'd investigate. I have also contacted Spartan direct, and am working from their end trying to get an answer, but so far, 4 months, I've received nothing from them except apologies for not following up when they refer it to who they think is responsible.


Simply upping the front axle rating to 20,000 for 2020 models is not helping earlier Anthems. If the 2020 Anthems are still running too much pressure in their tag, they'll still have a relatively heavy tag weight, more than they should have on the front axle, and an underutilized drive axle. I've seen some of these where the owner complained about the coach spinning it wheels on sandy inclines because the weight on the front and tag was causing traction problems on the drive.


If I get an answer, and I should because I'm not letting this issue go, I'll post it on the forum. I think most of us would agree that Entegra builds some very nice coaches, that's what makes the Anthem issue so frustrating. I've told these guys how uncomfortable it is for me to have to tell someone who just spent $400,000 + for a coach that not should be driven because it's not safe. Truly uncomfortable to me, and devastating to the owner, not a position I want to be in.



Having said that, congratulations on your new coach, I'm sure there's a fix coming. I just want them to address it before someone gets hurt, or worse. I've been to court over heavy front ends before and it was ruled an owner issue not a manufacturer issue. If I had a court appearance in relation to the Anthem problem, I'd have to say my opinions would favor the owners.

From what Spartan has told me as it sits the tag axle pressure is not adjustable BUT adding an adjustable pressure regulator to the tag axle certainly solved my problems. Interesting observation with regards to the Hendrickson tag axle on the Anthem’s. It appears that Spartan may have guessed wrong with regards to what air pressure to send to the tag axle suspension when the chassis was built and now no one (Spartan or Entegra) wants to take responsibility for the end result. Sure, the front end was well under 17000 lbs when the chassis left Spartan, and with full fuel the front end was under 17000 lbs when it left Entegra, BUT what use is it to the coach owners if they cannot use even half of the 8000-9000 lb CCC without exceeding the front axle weight limit.

[jadatis]

Putting rings or plates between the suspension of drive axle has the same effect as lowering suspension-pressure of tag. And that is relatively easy to do.

And I oversaw the clearence getting to less , going from 295 to 315.
Everything that highens drive and lowers tag and or front, helpes to change the division.
Cheap way is playing with tirepressure, but keep safety of tires in mind.

Only unseranty is what effect the small differences give of 1/2 inch estimated.

[757driver]

Originally Posted by jadatis

Putting rings or plates between the suspension of drive axle has the same effect as lowering suspension-pressure of tag. And that is relatively easy to do.

And I oversaw the clearence getting to less , going from 295 to 315.
Everything that highens drive and lowers tag and or front, helpes to change the division.
Cheap way is playing with tirepressure, but keep safety of tires in mind.

Only unseranty is what effect the small differences give of 1/2 inch estimated.

Putting plates or rings in the drive suspension would either have zero effect and be compensated for by the ride height valve or it would change the ride height, which would alter the drive shaft angle. Don’t think I would want to be doing any of that.

My experience with any altering of tire pressures has had little to no effect on shifting weight off the tag onto the drive.

[Gary.Jones]

It has to have an effect... Simple physics suggests that it has to have an effect. Maybe not what you want or not what solves your problem, but it certainly has an effect. Right?

Gary

[bradschiller]

sounds like this should be reported to highway safety for a recall on all and Entregra is passing the buck glad to know as this changes what our next coach will be
we are looking at the new Winnebago new horizon it is rely neat

[brobox]

Originally Posted by bradschiller

sounds like this should be reported to highway safety for a recall on all and Entregra is passing the buck glad to know as this changes what our next coach will be
we are looking at the new Winnebago new horizon it is rely neat

The weight still needs to be checked with another scale. A dealer using a spot scale, is it accurate? Will a certified truck scale give the same weight reading? Jumping to conclusions does not solve the problem, additional weigh tickets will tell if there is really a problem or not.


Good luck with the new Winnebago.

[Victory Blue]

Originally Posted by bradschiller

sounds like this should be reported to highway safety for a recall on all and Entregra is passing the buck glad to know as this changes what our next coach will be
we are looking at the new Winnebago new horizon it is rely neat

You’re in for a lot of life problems if you draw conclusions from one data point. You might also want to compare apples to apples before making a choice, especially if “neat” is your criteria.

[DeWat]

Greetings all! I know that "standard" practice when giving Class A CCC weights is to allow for a full fresh water tank as mentioned by MRUSA14 back on page 1. Even when the full fresh water tank wasn't already in the CCC computation (such as some manufactures' bare chassis weight stickers), the CCC/weight sticker would give the estimated 8.34 pounds * gallons computation so one could figure it out, and it would normally still leave an acceptable CCC. Well today while perusing the the red 2019 Anthem Owner's Manual (book form and PDF), I happened upon the following WARNING on page 104: "Never travel with full fresh, black or grey water holding tanks". Remember this thread when I read that, I can't help but wonder if it creates a "Catch 22" for a close to max front axle when the fresh water tank is full. I know, I know, that really should NOT be the case, but why the warning in the manual??? Just wondering out loud to the group.

EDIT: I forgot to mention this stood out to me, because I am one who believes in and have always started a trip with a full fresh water tank (another one of those arguments that have been beat to death), because I believe that's what it is for!

[hdgoldie]

Originally Posted by DeWat

I happened upon the following WARNING on page 104: "Never travel with full fresh, black or grey water holding tanks". Remember this thread when I read that, I can't help but wonder if it creates a "Catch 22" for a close to max front axle when the fresh water tank is full. I know, I know, that really should NOT be the case, but why the warning in the manual??? Just wondering out loud to the group.

Not sure if this is a coincidence but, when leaving for the gathering in Perry, we started out from our FHU campsite with our fresh tank registering 100%, we arrived at Perry with 90%. Friends with a Cornerstone had the same experience. I don't recall that happening with our prior coaches - but it could be that we just didn't notice it before now. Just wondering if they don't recommend traveling with full tanks because you may not arrive with full tanks.