Allison 3000/Cruise/aux brake

[wmpbauer]

It is my understanding that the Allison 3000, should work together with the auxiliary brake. Example: aux brake is on, cruise control is on and set at 62, and as you go down a long hill and the speed goes faster....at some point the aux brake should begin to slow the coach.

Mine doesn't.....I've free wheeled up to 80 mph. Sure if I kick the cruise control off with either the brake pedal or with the smart wheel, the aux brake kicks in, but ONLY if I manually disengage the cruise control.

Does anyone know how to turn that feature on in the Allison 3000 transmission?


Pat Bauer, President
Entegra Coach Owners Association
www.entegraowners.com
2013 Aspire DEQ/Ford Edge

[Mwoodofd]

Mine is the same Pat. Will not engage when cruise control is on. Good question!

[waterboy10]

My 13 Aspire would put the aux brake on when my speed increased about 8mph above the set speed going down a hill. I have not noticed it with the 16 Anthem but I assume it works the same way. I am limited to 65mph because of the toad. I toggle the cruise to cancel when I am starting down a big hill. When at the bottom or close I hit the resume button.

[palehorse89]

Hi Pat!,
The chassis manufacture/Cummins/Allison does not set it up to work with the cruise control, due to the "Downshift" that is in the program settings. At 62 and the cruise control on, if the engine brake was to come on, lets say at 65, it would downshift to a "Target Gear" of 4th(guessing) and within seconds you would be below your cruise controls set point, and it would kick off and the Allison would up shift back to 6th, and this process will go on and on.
I had mine reprogrammed to stay in 6th gear on "Closed throttle position" and engage my engine brake. So now, on long hills or while using cruise control, I made the changes at 3mph over the cruise control set point, the engine brake comes on, and at 3 mph under the set point, it kicks off........works very well for me and my driving habits. I use to drive OTR truck, and did not like the auto-downshift that came in the "Default Factory Settings" At interstate speeds, my engine is running 16-1800 rpm's and I have plenty of braking power to maintain my speed using it this way. If I need more braking power, I just press the down arrow on the transmission pad to 5th.........
There is a big selection of options in the Cummins/Allison programs to set them up per your driving habits/needs. The factory default settings are just that,they had to start somewhere........and they are programmable to suit your needs.
Most buy these big RV's and drive them till they sell them, not knowing they can adjust and make different selections in the ECM and the TCM.
(Engine control module and the transmission control module)
After making the changes years ago, it made my Coach a joy to drive on long trips using the cruise control with it new program settings. Mine worked just like you are reporting when I bought it. Most all "Good" Cummins shops with the help of a knowledgeable tech will be able to show you the programs and your options. Most all Cummins shops are Allison authorized dealers also, two different programs are needed, The Cummins "Insite Program" and the Allison transmission program, on their laptops to make changes.
P.S Mine still downshifts, engine brake on, per the Allison program, through all 6 gears based on MPH(Shift points) right down to 5 mph then the engine brake kicks off.

[FRR2EYW]

Pat, I believe this is more of a chassis issue than an Allison issue. I suggest you call the chassis manufacturer Monday morning. Based on what I have been told, it is programmed into the Engine Control Module.

[Gary.Jones]

Pat and Palehorse

This is a very interesting issue and I hope that you both can help me (everybody) understand a couple of things.

First, I think that we use the engine brake differently (both of you versus me). I don't want the Jake switch "on" all the time because I don't want to use the Jake every time I am slowing down. To me, the Jake is only/primarily needed to relieve the service brakes from use on very long or very steep downgrades. The other time is maybe a fast slow to a rest stop or exit off an interstate. When I see the 18 mile 7% grade sign, my left hand moves over to the Jake control. Also, I drive at 62 on cruise 90% of the time. Now, if I hit the top of that downgrade at 62 and turn on stage 1 Jake, nothing happens. No downshift and no braking. My assumption is that at 62, I am going too fast for the Cummins/Allison to be willing to turn on/downshift.. It takes me also using the service brakes to get the speed down to maybe 55, and then the system downshifts the target gear to 2nd and downshifts to 5th or 4th and I start getting some braking from the Jake. Once it is on, then I simply move from Low to Hi as needed to keep my speed where I want it (50ish if its not too bad, or 30 if it is necessary for turns, traffic, etc). If I start slowing too much, I turn off the Jake completely and coach immediately starts to increase speed at which point, I turn on the Jake to low again (and if I am below about 58, it immediately kicks in and downshifts). If I happened to be above 60 lets say or 58, then it would not kick in until I get below ~ 58, and then it downshifts. As soon as I get to the bottom of the grade, the Jake switch goes to off and I resume the cruise and I am on my way. Works great!!

Now, why would I want the Jake engaged all the time? Doesn't that then engage the Jake even if slowing from 45 for a stop sign in the middle of Tucson and not necessary at all?? I don't understand how that is good or necessary.

Also, my buddy Joe (Ditto) and others have had their system modified so if the Jake switch is on and in cruise, nothing happens until he applies the service brakes. He talks about he used to need to feather the "gas" pedal to keep the Jake from kicking in. I don't understand either of those options... why have the Jake on all the time when all you have to do is turn it on with your left hand when you need it?

Here is a place where I think that I can really learn something....... help me understand how what Joe has done and what you have done Palehorse is a better set up. And Pat, I think that what you want is the Jake to kick on anytime your speed goes much higher than the cruise set speed. You may not do this, but lets say you cruise at 68, then at lets say, 70 you would want the Jake to kick in on a downgrade, but if the revs you are running at 68 or 70 are higher than the Allison will let you downshift (the new revs would be much too high for the Cummins at the lower gear), then the Allison will refuse to downshift until you apply the service brakes and lower the revs to an acceptable level for the downshift gear, Right?

Gary

Ready to learn in Arizona....

[brobox]

Just the way I drive. My favorite gear is "coast". If I gain to much speed going down a hill, I switch on the Jake and it comes on every time. I also changed my brake switch to the new style easy to find red switch. Much nicer

[palehorse89]

Originally Posted by brobox

Just the way I drive. My favorite gear is "coast". If I gain to much speed going down a hill, I switch on the Jake and it comes on every time. I also changed my brake switch to the new style easy to find red switch. Much nicer

Does you Allison downshift when your engine brake comes on Chuck?

[loisjop]

Obviously using the jake brake is like opinions everyone has one and most are different. Don't have the Allison 3000, but it worked pretty much the same as our present 4000.
Like Chuck my favorite gear is coast, and like Gary's friend I have my jake programmed to only come on only when I touch the service brake. Unlike Gary's mine will engage regardless of how fast I'm going or how high the rpm. It obviously won't let the revs go high enough to hurt the engine, but it does engage and as speed bleeds off it continues to down shift.
I also never turn the jake brake switch off. I know everyone has a different opinion of this, but if you ever need it in an emergency it's too late to turn it on.
I guess there is no definitive answer, but coasting when I take my foot off the throttle, until I touch the service brake, works for me. Noel

[Tonyd51]

Mine comes on at about 6 miles per hour over the cruise set point.


Tony
2014 Anthem 44B
2011 Honda CRV

[brobox]

Originally Posted by palehorse89

Does you Allison downshift when your engine brake comes on Chuck?

Never paid much attention, but probably.

[Gary.Jones]

Chuck
My Jake clearly does not come on regardless of speed. It will engage and downshift only if my coach speed is below, roughly, the speed that I indicated in my post above. If I am above that speed, nothing happens. Now, I don't think that I ever have left my coach much above 70 (+8 mph from my cruise set speed) (like Tony says) on a big downgrade, but I think that I have let my coach get up over 70 sometimes (at the bottom of a hill and getting ready to climb the next up grade), and again, nothing happens even with the switch "on". My Jake kicks in only if my coach speed is below some rev value in 6th gear and I want to say it is ~ 58 mph. Now, maybe I have been misunderstanding all of this all along. I assumed it refused to kick in and downshift because the revs at the lower gear would be over-revving the Cummins so I needed to snub brake down to an acceptable speed. Maybe what is happening has nothing to do with revs, and depends on when I snub brake the service brakes. I have always assumed the former, but maybe it is the latter. However it clearly is speed dependent.

Now, if this is just a "potato" versus "po-tah-toe" thing, I will just continue doing what I do. I assumed there was a clear superior logic to this all.

Cruzer - PaleHorse, iManiac, ??, any opinion?

Gary

[palehorse89]

I would think at 65-75 mph(RPM'S?) YOUR RPM'S would not be high enough for it not to preform properly in 6th gear, then once slowed to a predetermined speed/rpm(set in the ECM &TCM) it should downshift toward the "Pre-selected" /target gear.
What is your rpm's at , lets say 65-70 mph? 17-1800? guessing? What is max governed rpm of your engine, and what is the max rpm while using the engine brake? Is what we need to find out .....

Engine Model

Advertised Horsepower (kW)

Peak Torque lb-ft (N•m) @ rpm

ISL9 450

450 (335)

1250 (1695) @ 1400

Governed Speed

2,100-2,200 rpm

I have not been able to find the max rpm's while using the engine brake as of yet..........
Re reading your post several times, it seems that your is not programed to work unless your cruise control is off?
What does it do when not using the cruise control at 65 mph, and the engine brake is on, and you let off the throttle? Does it downshift and work then?

[wmpbauer]

I rarely use the JB. I asked the Q because I hear the comment often, that the JB kicks in when on cruise control at about 7+mph over the set point of the CC. I just worry that my response presumes a function that I do not have programmed on my coach, and it seems it must be on other ppl's coaches.

I prefer the manual way my system works because I do need to think about how I handle the coach in the mountains, especially how one manages long downgrades above 5°. Spartan says to stomp the brakes....heat'em up, because that prevents glazing.....like getting off exit ramps.....use brakes, not the JB. Then kick in the JB. I've actually used both brakes and JB at the same time.

I do use it in inner city Interstate Traffic, like @Atlanta or Orlando....but there, I'm fully off cruise anyway because of the 4-wheelers cutting you off and dealing with idiots who don't know how to merge.


Pat Bauer, President
Entegra Coach Owners Association
www.entegraowners.com
2013 Aspire DEQ/Ford Edge