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Old 11-26-2024, 11:04 AM   #1
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Annual Tire Inspection?

In a couple of days my coach will pass five years in service, triggering what conventional wisdom suggests is an annual tire inspection. My question is: If you follow that plan, do you perform the inspections yourself? If not who does them for you?


I've raised the prospect with a few Michelin shops, who basically thumbed their nose at the idea (probably because they don't like working on motorhomes).
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Old 11-26-2024, 11:15 AM   #2
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Michelin tire inspection requires the tire be dismounted and the interior checked not just an outside “look”! Doing so on older tires especially, can cause bead damage to the seal . If so you’re replacing the tire. Unless you own a tire shop you’re going to pay a fee for ea tire to dismount and again mount. The cost adds up fast. Soon you could just buy tires. Yes you should crawl under and inspect the outside regularly but that’s not the inspection Michelin is talking about. Any large truck commercial tire can do this. For the mount dismount balance fee plus inspection. I think the reason you get doubt is for the reason I stated above. Personally I’ve always inspected the complete outside myself a couple times a year and replace at sometime in 7th year. But, that’s my comfort level.
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Old 11-26-2024, 11:37 AM   #3
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Michelin tire inspection requires the tire be dismounted and the interior checked not just an outside “look”! Doing so on older tires especially, can cause bead damage to the seal . If so you’re replacing the tire. Unless you own a tire shop you’re going to pay a fee for ea tire to dismount and again mount. The cost adds up fast. Soon you could just buy tires. Yes you should crawl under and inspect the outside regularly but that’s not the inspection Michelin is talking about. Any large truck commercial tire can do this. For the mount dismount balance fee plus inspection. I think the reason you get doubt is for the reason I stated above. Personally I’ve always inspected the complete outside myself a couple times a year and replace at sometime in 7th year. But, that’s my comfort level.

Thanks BillJinOR! I'm with you on the potential impact of a true remove and reinstall inspection process, but I would sure like to find someone that will split the difference and give me a very thorough visual check of all eight. The desired result of course being a reasonable expectation that I can operate the coach safely.
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Old 11-26-2024, 11:38 AM   #4
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To me the benefits of a "dismount" inspection are not worth cost and bother of doing so. Better to save that money and apply it towards an earlier tire replacement. I am comforatble with a 6-7 year replacement cycle. But my tires spend most of their time in a garage, out of the sun.
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Old 11-26-2024, 11:44 AM   #5
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On my 21 when it was 2 years old, I had Rettrobads installed. Unknown to us, the front tires were an additional 2 years old. Sure enough, one of the beads broke on the 2 front tires requiring both to be replace due to age. That was a $2,400 error. After that experience, I don't trust Michelin tires not to have a problem dismounting. My rear tires will be replaced with Toyo's for the same reason.
I would inspect the inside of each tire with a flashlight. No cracking or bulges, I would run them. Also watch for any curb scuffing, if they have been hit, that one I would have inspected inside for broken threads. JME.
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Old 11-26-2024, 12:06 PM   #6
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To me the benefits of a "dismount" inspection are not worth cost and bother of doing so. Better to save that money and apply it towards an earlier tire replacement. I am comforatble with a 6-7 year replacement cycle. But my tires spend most of their time in a garage, out of the sun.

Copy that ... Unfortunately our coach is out in the Texas sun and heat quite a bit and even with covers on as much as possible that's gotta be tough on tires. I've replaced two rear tires already due to pothole damage, but I'm mostly focused on cracks and bulges that can sneak up on you ...
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Old 11-26-2024, 12:09 PM   #7
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On my 21 when it was 2 years old, I had Rettrobads installed. Unknown to us, the front tires were an additional 2 years old. Sure enough, one of the beads broke on the 2 front tires requiring both to be replace due to age. That was a $2,400 error. After that experience, I don't trust Michelin tires not to have a problem dismounting. My rear tires will be replaced with Toyo's for the same reason.
I would inspect the inside of each tire with a flashlight. No cracking or bulges, I would run them. Also watch for any curb scuffing, if they have been hit, that one I would have inspected inside for broken threads. JME.

Thanks Brobox! Do you feel comfortable on your own making the inevitable "how much cracking is too much" call? It sounds like you are ...
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Old 11-26-2024, 12:48 PM   #8
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Michelin has a good guide for cracking. I think you've found that the removal and inspection recommendation came from the legal dept, not from the tire shops, because none of them have ever heard of dismounting tires to inspect them. I try to do a Timeman "spin" inspection occasionally, and keep an eye on the pressure. My tires are over 7 years old, but they haven't spent much time in TX either.
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Old 11-26-2024, 02:09 PM   #9
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Thanks Brobox! Do you feel comfortable on your own making the inevitable "how much cracking is too much" call? It sounds like you are ...
Any cracking and I change the tires. If you can see cracking.....what's there you can't see? If the tires have any cracking, they are aged no matter how old the tires are. I had 7 year old Michelins on my Travel Supreme always parked inside. They looked great and I was going to "try" for the 10 years. At 7 years those tires rode like a square wheeled lumber wagon. All of the sidewall flex was gone. Changed the tires and I had the new coach ride again.
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Old 11-26-2024, 02:11 PM   #10
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Michelin has a good guide for cracking. I think you've found that the removal and inspection recommendation came from the legal dept, not from the tire shops, because none of them have ever heard of dismounting tires to inspect them. I try to do a Timeman "spin" inspection occasionally, and keep an eye on the pressure. My tires are over 7 years old, but they haven't spent much time in TX either.

Thanks SafariBen! I'll look for that Michelin guide; always keep my TST TPMS very close at hand; and like most folks replace my tires before I absolutely have to ...
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Old 11-26-2024, 02:12 PM   #11
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My canned response on RV tire ages:

Tires are like people. They can look great on the outside and be a mess on the inside.

While the physical appearance on the outside can tell you there is a problem, such as sidewall cracking, you cannot tell what the inside of the tire looks like and that's what's important. Michelin recommends a professional inspection at 5 years old and every year thereafter.

What is a professional inspection? One where each tire is removed from the RV, removed from the wheel (rim), and inspected in and out, and then remounted.

A professional inspection is NOT having someone from the local tire shop look at the tires from the outside and asking how they hold air pressure.

But tires older than four years have an increased susceptibility to having bead damage when removed. Even if you do not sustain bead damage it's going to cost you up to $300 to have every tire inspected, each year.

This is a very recent post from a motorhome owner:

"We changed out our 6 Michelin XRV's last fall for Toyo M154. The Michelins had less than 20,000 and looked brand new, they were 7 years old. 4 of 6 had broken cords showing through on the interior of the tire. That was enough for me to realize you cannot go by the tire's mileage, if it holds air (they did), or how they look. The insides are breaking down...."

--------------------

Tires have UV-protecting chemicals inside but the tires need to be spinning to keep the chemicals dispersed. There also are other chemicals that help longevity that also need to stay dispersed in the tire. Tires that sit in one place a lot, like RV tires, potentially have a lower life than ones that are spinning on the road for many thousands of miles each year because the spinning disperses the chemicals in the tire. Of course, the ones spinning for many thousands of miles each year usually wear the tread out first.

--------------------

Ozone can damage tires very fast. It does not matter if an RV is stored inside and climate-controlled if someone uses an arc welder in that garage without good ventilation. The same happens with large electric motors in the garage that have brushes. The sparking can generate ozone.

--------------------

Bad roads cause a real hit to tires, for real. Potholes and rough roads can break the cords inside the tire yet the breaks may not be seen from the outside.

--------------------

Underinflation is the killer of tires yet we constantly read posts from people saying to lower the tire pressure to improve the ride.

On a related topic, should an RV owner be using a TPMS (tire pressure monitoring system) to help detect low tires, especially while driving or towing? Yes.

Unlike car tires that typically have a 20% or more safety margin, a towable RV's tires are only required to have a 10% safety margin, and only if the RV was built after August 2017 (per RVIA towable standards). Towable RV's built before Sept. 1, 2017 were required to have precisely zero safety margin by the RVIA. In other words, those towable RV's may have tires may barely support the axle design maximum weight so you're likely running them at close to 100% all the time, or maybe even overloaded.

So what does "safety margin" mean? That's the difference between how much weight an axle is designed to support and how much weight the tires on that axle are designed to support, when the tires are inflated to the pressure molded into the tire sidewall (when the tires are cold). The closer you run anything to its maximum design rating the more likely it is to fail prematurely.

The Federal Motor Vehicle Standard (FMVSS) 120 covers tire and rim selection for vehicles in excess of 10,000 lbs GVWR. FMVSS 110 covers vehicles of 10,000 lbs GVWR and under.

--------------------

Remember, the pressure in the tire manufacturer's load inflation chart assumes that the left-right weight distribution on the axle is perfect (no difference from one side to the other).

Yet it's not uncommon for RV's to have up to a 10% weight imbalance from one side to the other. Even worse, a friend with a well-known brand fifth wheel of recent vintage has a whopping 22% difference between the weight on the driver side tires and the weight on the passenger side tires, 1,100 pounds of difference. They haven't done any mods. While they are under GAWR on each axle, under GVWR, and with a 23% pin weight, their fifth wheel is just lopsided. He talked to a well-known trailer suspension manufacturer and they said it's not uncommon for that brand to have a half-ton difference from one side to the other.

When you do a CAT Scale weighing and divide by two you are seeing the average weight on each corner, not the per-corner weight. That means one side of an axle has a tire (or tires) that likely is underinflated for the actual weight being supported IF you just inflate the tires to the pressure in the load inflation chart.

Why? The pressure in the load inflation chart is the MINIMUM pressure needed to support that weight, not a "recommended"" or "optimum" pressure. It's the bare minimum.

--------------------

In closing, we're all used to replacing tires when the tread wears down and for most of us I'd wager that's about every five years or sooner if we're still driving to and from work. That means most of us have no idea of the impact of tires aging out because we replace our car and truck tires before age becomes a factor.

Trying to equate our car tire experience with an RV may turn out...poorly.

FWIW.

Ray
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Old 11-26-2024, 02:16 PM   #12
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Any cracking and I change the tires. If you can see cracking.....what's there you can't see? If the tires have any cracking, they are aged no matter how old the tires are. I had 7 year old Michelins on my Travel Supreme always parked inside. They looked great and I was going to "try" for the 10 years. At 7 years those tires rode like a square wheeled lumber wagon. All of the sidewall flex was gone. Changed the tires and I had the new coach ride again.

Understood! I guess I'm just reluctant to throw another eight grand in the mix without somebody saying I need to, but the clock is definitely ticking on this one ...
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Old 11-26-2024, 02:21 PM   #13
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I had a Michelin completely blow apart at 65mph at exactly 5 years tire age. Literally to the month. No prior signs of wear or cracking etc. Front passenger steer. Barely kept it under control. I never want that to happen again.
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Old 11-26-2024, 02:27 PM   #14
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I had our six tires date coded August 2018 replaced this summer. I know the chassis build date is January 2019 so that means the tires were inflated for about 5 1/2 years. When we took delivery in June 2019 the tires were already ten months old.

Just under 20,000 miles, always covered, zero sidewall cracking and never run close to under-inflated.

But the price of the six tires went up $300 from January to June and tires are not getting any cheaper. My reasoning was that in one year I likely would be paying the cost of seven tires this year but only getting six tires next year.

Plus I would be putting me, my family, and my motorhome at an increased risk of failure. The collateral damage from a tire coming apart not to mention the time, inconvenience, and possible lost reservation fees made it an easy decision for me.

Delaying the replacement was not saving me any money, just deferring the cost and probably costing me more in a year.

I did go with Toyo M154's instead of Michelin XRVs and I was able to get four Centramtic dynamic balancers installed and get Borg Dually valve installed on the rear tires to eliminate the inner rear tire valve stem extensions. And I was still spending less money than just putting Michelin's back on.

Not only are the Toyo tires far less expensive, the alternate size they come in is far more available IF you have one of the "Michelin only makes this size tire". If you have a flat on the road it's not guaranteed that the tire service will bring a Michelin XRV in 235/80R22.5 because only Michelin makes that exact size. Michelin also seems to be the only one to make the 255/80R22.5 size used on Ford's 24K and 26K F53 chassis.

Supposedly Michelin has one production run a year for that size and most go to the RV manufacturers. The tire service most likely will bring the tire size they stock for real trucks. If the tire service needs to go hunting for an XRV that will delay your repair while you're sitting on the side of the road plus you'll be paying more money as well.

If Roadside Assistance needs to replace one of the rear duals with a tire in the alternate size you will now have two tires of slightly different sizes on the same corner. That's a bad thing long-term so you'll need to get that 245 tire moved to the front and the front 235 tire moved to the rear, or have the Roadside Assistance do that for you. On the side of the road.

That's two tire removals, dismounting due to the different wheels (and potentially different valve stems) used on the front and back on ours, and remounting of two tires. Older tires are more susceptible to bead damage when removed and reinstalled as well.

I think it's cheaper and simpler to go with the alternate size.

--------------------

That actually happened to a friend; he had to have a Toyo put on the rear due to a flat on a trip and later paid to have a front and rear tire swapped. He now has a 235/80R22.5 as one steer tire and the other steer tire is a 245/75R22.5. He says it does not pull at all while steering.

--------------------

Yes, I realize you do not have the same size tires as we do and you may have front tires that only Michelin makes. But if you do have the "Michelin only" sizes it's probably worthwhile to look at the more readily available alternate sizes.

FWIW,

Ray
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