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Old 12-30-2016, 08:56 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzer View Post
Roger is a great resource when it comes to Aqua-Hot tech info and parts.

The $190 kit is only required if you upgrades from the older 105 or 108 pumps to the newer Beuhler pumps. The kit includes hoses to adapt from 5/8" to the 3/4" on the Beuhler pumps as well as mounting brackets and clamps. If you just need the pump it's only $135.

The tech bulletin shows the kit part number, kit contents and detailed instructions also comes in the kit. I've attached it to this post for reference.
Right, and when installing the Beuhler kit hoses it is necessary to drain apx. 6 gals of Century fluid while changing the hoses as you can't clamp off a hose to prevent draining as you can when changing 105 & 108 pumps that have simular hoses. Have an extra gallon of fluid handy as some will be lost. I did mine myself and it sure would have been easier to do them all at the same time. If you do it yourself I recommend having an inexpensive squeeze pump to reinstall the fluid.

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Old 12-30-2016, 08:59 AM   #30
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I used a spare Shurflo water pump and flushed it out when done.
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Old 12-30-2016, 09:07 AM   #31
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I used a spare Shurflo water pump and flushed it out when done.
I used a drill powered pump. Use the same thing for oil changes.
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Old 12-30-2016, 09:13 AM   #32
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So unfortunate, Aqua Hot used to be the best in previous coaches...Last year had all pumps replaced under warranty. Now almost to the day electric elemet not heating reset everything and no luck. Also, when diesel burner starts up good then whether showering or heating it will shut down randomly and then everything cools off even thougth their is demand. Restarts eventually but WHATTT???? Spent hours checking running in and out of the rig driving DW crazy! Finally called for tech that replaced pumps to come out next week, I give up
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Old 12-30-2016, 09:16 AM   #33
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Why can't you use plier style hose shutoff clamps to prevent the fluid from leaving the system? Not challenging, just trying to learn here.
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Old 12-30-2016, 09:21 AM   #34
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As I recall you were replacing the hose you needed to clamp. I still used clamps but had to drain 6 gals. Maybe I did it wrong?

I wish I could have done a complete flush. Had I known before I started the replacement I was going to need to drain 6 gals I would have got enough to do a flush. I had a gal. on hand and it was 3 or 4 more days to get an order shipped.
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Old 12-30-2016, 09:36 AM   #35
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Ya John... the only rubber tubes that you can clamp are the rubber hoses that you need to replace so techs/owners drain the whole system of boiler fluid and then put it back in. My tech used a big like 5 gallon size paint can to catch all the fluid and hold it until it goes back in.

The big issue he talked about was ensuring that all the bubbles were burped out of the system and he ran the system at full tilt for a long time after putting hte boiler fluid back in and then had to refill the overflow reservoir several times as air came out and needed to be replaced with more boiler fluid.

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Old 12-30-2016, 10:23 AM   #36
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Thinking back, if memory serves me, when changing to a BBeuhler,you should still clamp a couple of other rubber lines to prevent draining the floor heating lines. A short boiler tank to pump hose and a longer hose from the pump to the Xchanger need clamped. By doing this it will prevent draining an additional 5 or 6 gallons and having to purge the floor lines. There is a total of about 10 to 11 gals in the 450 and 400 floor heating models and about 5 & 1/2 gals need drained for a 105/108 to a Beuhler pump change. Two channel lock needle nose pliers with right angle jaws will work perfectly to clamp off the two hoses. It's a tight fit.

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Old 12-31-2016, 01:50 PM   #37
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Mark

I think that a lot of the things that are supposedly "warranteed" (sp?) by Entegra have always been a pass through for an OEM manufacturer. For a while, maybe the first complete replacement of AH pumps, supposedly Entegra paid for that change.... however, the charge was simply kicked back to AquaHot to pay and they would be reimbursed. Also, I think it was exactly the same issue with shade motors.... Entegra paid for them to be replaced, but National Shade or whatever that company was, was actually being billed for the motors. I think it is the same issue for Spartan and the company that provides radiators.... either they had an agreement or they will seek to recover their costs by an OEM supplier that provides them an inferior product. I have heard that Spartan has a huge lawsuit filed and ongoing against the company that manufactured and supplied Spartan with radiators. That is my understanding, it might be wrong. My guess is that Entegra essentially says to their vendors... We will put your product in all our coaches if you will guarantee them for the period of our warranty. Some things Entegra "eats" and some things Entegra simply passes through.

Now, even if I am totally correct on my understandings stated above, I still don't disagree with AquaHot shirking its responsibility, or Entegra for not forcing them to deal with the problem, but I think it boils down to the problems still being spotty enough that the company is not being forced to bite the bullet and pay for the problem. Further, I would bet that it was a corporate decision to go with lower priced pump motors and that decision is now hitting the bottom line, and that is a problem for any company.

And I certainly do not like paying fairly serious money to avoid having my next trip interrupted and the hassles of changed plans, DW that is hopping mad at her plans being screwed up, etc. etc. etc. ..... and the money will be well spent if I can avoid one more trip-disrupting-problem. Don't like it, but I am willing to pay to avoid the hassle.


Gary


Gary,

I understand what you are saying and admire your patience. I also never underestimate the "DW influence" on matters such as this!

As Chuck pointed out Entegra has done a lot over the years working with AH to determine cause of AH failures, and I applaud them for that. Perhaps thats what influenced the change to Buehler pumps in the 2016 450D. Hopefully Entegra will have this AH dilemma clearly behind them by the time we upgrade.

However, for now we bought Entegra with an understanding it could withstand the harsh winter living that we've grown accustomed to. In fact PJ confirms this during his AH Training. As was previously pointed, and many here know, very bad things can happen when you lose heat in this beast. Until I know for sure I'm clear of AH problems we will be avoiding deep cold...disappointment!

Good news is I do have the Bueler pumps. My boiler has been in the "on" position 99% of time since June without any known problems.

Mark & Dee

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Old 12-31-2016, 03:55 PM   #38
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Chuck, I'm not trying to kill the messenger just stating the obvious. While you went over and above to try and prove what the pump failure was, Aquahot SHOULD have issued a recall on all 105 and 108 pumps. But instead Aquahot has chose to replace these pumps one at a time and wait for the warranty period to run out while protecting their bottom line.
Entegra coaches using Century Boiler Antifreeze in their Aquahot 450D units were not the only ones having pump failures. Several Tiffin owners with Aquahot 450D units installed with Camco Boiler Antifreeze were experiencing the same pump failures.

Sammie
Sammie, you are 110% correct and I also believe AH should have recalled all of the 108's just like they did the worthless 105's Because they made the same mistake twice...we the coach owners have to pay for it which is ridiculous!

During the sludge post, AH dug their heels in refusing to replace motors before they even knew what the problem was. Even after the Fluid Engineer submitted his report they refused to acknowledge it after AH was the one that told me to get a fluid analysis. I put AH right up there with Norcold in CS. This is a public forum so I won't say how I really feel about them. That is one company that I do hope gets sold to better owners.
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Old 12-31-2016, 04:01 PM   #39
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As for changing motors and draining the system.... I saw JohnnyReno post that he put the Buhler motors together with the hoses, then did the swap with the hoses attached saying he lost very little fluid. I asked the tech that flushed my system and he said he did the same thing on Buhler motor swaps.
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Old 12-31-2016, 08:13 PM   #40
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Buehler to Buehler swaps are a piece of cake... the "108 or 105" to Buehler is a more involved process.

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Old 12-31-2016, 09:56 PM   #41
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Gary, I find what Chuck said about JohnnyReno is saying about swapping 108 pumps with the Beuhler pump having the hoses pre cut and attached very interesting. I have done the swap myself per instructions, draining, measuring & cutting hoses, etc. and now I am thinking what JohnnyReno said is very doable, especially if you have done some before. If I knew I had cut the new kit hoses to the proper length then I feel I could pull the 108 pump off and immediately slide the Beuhler pump with attached hoses on to the Aqua-hot connectors with very little fluid loss. I wouldn't do this on my first swap or until I had the confidence needed. If you screw up you could be in a real mess with two thumbs holding hose ends and hollering for help. It's a get-it-right the first time job.

I can see where experienced tech's would do it this way. Save a lot of time, more than half.

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Old 01-01-2017, 07:16 AM   #42
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There is always more than one way to "skin a cat", but some better than others. I was surprised that my tech in Tucson drained the entire system and then refilled it because it seemed like overkill. However, he was a very sharp guy and had been doing it a long time, and he felt that it was the only way to do it without losing substantial amounts of boiler fluid. His way (in line electric pump to drain and refill) meant no fluid was lost (and he doesnt have to have the pink or yellow/green boiler fluid with him to refill the system if fluid is lost). Since those guys get paid a fixed price from Entegra or AquaHot per pump swapped, I figure that the successful ones have tried it every way there is to try it, and have decided on the one that is least time consuming so their pay rate is maximum. Hopefully, I will now not have to fool with AquaHot pumps again during this lifetime and this puts an end to it, but if I do one myself next time, I will simply clamp ) I'm banking on Buehler German Engineering). There is a particular named type of hose clamp that is what should be used (forget the name of the clamp) and have seen people use locking needle nose pliers but those can be damaging to the hose, and the only hoses that can be clamped on the 450D in making this upgrade from "108s" to these Buehlers is the PEX and I wouldn't trying clamping that stuff for any amount of money.

Gary
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