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09-29-2013, 12:34 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Varies Depending on The Weather
Posts: 8,517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brobox
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I actually use both.
I have the strips to measure how hard the water is where I happen to be located. I then use the digital tester to track all of the bottled water and the RO water that is supplied at the local water stores. I want to make sure that I am not being bamboozled by the merchants.
We always use bottled water for cooking, coffee and drinking, even our Golden Retriever gets to drink the bottled water. The local water supply that goes through the softener is only used for showers, toilet, dish washing and ice cubes. However, I always try to schedule the ice cube making when the softener is getting at the end of its cycle and needs to be regenerated thereby the water has less sodium content. For the amount of ice cubes that we use on a monthly basis that little sodium doesn't worry me.
Dr4Film ----- Richard
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09-29-2013, 02:14 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Denton, TX, 76207
Posts: 2,160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Lee
Using a softener that relies on sodium chloride can mean adding a fairly significant amount of sodium to your diet if you use a lot of the treated water for drinking or cooking.
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Tony, how much is significant?
Not trying to be argumentative but I am curious
__________________
Steve Pinn
2008 Newmar Essex-4514
2009 Honda CRV
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09-29-2013, 05:03 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoggieDaddy
Wow. This company is from here in Minnesota. A neighboring suburb in fact. Says it will do 5000 gallons. That is better than most. Looks like the "Tote" is all I would need. Thanks for the post.
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Hi, I also live in MN. Where is the softener company located? I live north of Brainerd by Crosslake.
Thanks, Tom
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09-29-2013, 06:40 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tasmania now, USA/Canada/Alaska in April
Posts: 2,473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn
Tony, how much is significant?
Not trying to be argumentative but I am curious
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Probably depends on how bad your blood pressure is - whether you are on a low sodium diet - and how much softened water you drink. My recollection was that it was suggested that houses with salt-type softeners, have a tap in the kitchen that bypasses the softener. Calcium (hard water) is said to be beneficial for health, but sodium is not.
Google "sodium in diet water softeners" for lots of results.
From wikipedia entry "
Effects of sodium
For people on a low-sodium diet, the increase in sodium levels (for systems releasing sodium) in the water can be significant, especially when treating very hard water. For example:
A person who drinks two liters (2 L) of softened, extremely hard water (assume 30 gpg) will consume about 126 mg more sodium (2L or 0.528 gallon x 30 gpg x 8 mg/grain = 126 mg), than if unsoftened water is consumed.[citation needed]
This amount is significant. The American Heart Association (AHA) suggests that the 3 percent of the population who must follow a severe, salt-restricted diet should not consume more than 400 mg of sodium a day. AHA suggests that no more than 10 percent of this sodium intake should come from water. The EPA's draft guideline of 20 mg/L for water protects people who are most susceptible. [8] Most people who are concerned with the added sodium in water generally have one tap in the house that bypasses the softener, or have a reverse osmosis unit installed for the drinking water and cooking water, which was designed for desalinisation of sea water. Potassium chloride can also be used instead of sodium chloride, although it is more costly. However, elevated potassium levels are dangerous for people with impaired kidney function; it can lead to complications such as cardiac arrhythmia.
Hard water also conveys some benefits to health by reducing the solubility of potentially toxic metal ions such as lead and copper, which are more soluble in acidic, soft water than in alkaline, hard water. [9]"
As is obvious, that extra salt is pretty "harmless", or rather, insignificant when compared to what many people ingest in a day from manufactured food and the salt shaker on the table, so my caution was directed at those who may need to be careful about their intake.
As for that last sentence - we used to live on a rural property and our entire water supply was rainwater stored in poly tanks. Copper pipe is the standard in Australia and we kept having the shower base slowly turn green because of copper dissolving out of the pipes into the soft, slightly acid water. I solved the problem by adding a heap of marble chips to the bottom of each tank. In the previous house we didn't have the problem because the water tanks were concrete.
Sorry people - back to the original topic.
__________________
Tony Lee - International Grey Nomad. Picasa Album - Travel Map
RVs. USA - Airstream Cutter; in Australia - MC8 40' DIY Coach conversion & OKA 4x4 MH; in Germany - Hobby Class C; in S America - F350 with 2500 10.6 Bigfoot camper
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09-29-2013, 06:55 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Midland, Texas
Posts: 606
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Ok, the sodium issue always comes up as a negative when water softening is talked about. If the water is hard enough that a significant amount of sodium is added to the water a Reverse Osmosis system should be used for drinking water. For those of us that live in areas with very hard water (our city water supply is 60 grains hard) the softener is indispensable to protect fixtures, water heaters etc and making the water usable. When water is this hard you don't want to drink it out of the faucet softened or not and that's why we use RO's for drinking water as it will remove the majority of the added sodium and natural sodium along with lots of other things.
__________________
Terry & Gloria O, Midland, Texas
2020 Entegra Aspire 44W, 2022 F250 King Ranch
2012 Entegra Aspire 42RBQ Traded
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09-29-2013, 09:47 PM
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#34
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Polk City, FL
Posts: 3,368
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Water Softening vs RO filtration
The thread seems to be derailing. Water softening is different than Reverse Osmosis or filtering. The water softening affects the hardness of the water generally thru a resin bead tank that is renewed occassionally with sodium chloride (salt). The salt is not passed into the water used in any significant concentrations. Reverse Osmosis is one way of filtering minerals and contaminants from said water. Other methods include carbon filters or even distillation. The trick is to find an economical and compact method suitable for an RV. When I was a military engineer we had an older Reverse Osmosis truck mounted system called an "Urdulator" that the instructor would stick the giant hose in raw sewage and with considerable engine power and noise out the other end came clean tap water we had to drink to show our confidence. RO is a method of removing contaminants from a basic element...H2O.
My RV has a water softener for primarily bathing and washing, and a RO system on the same water to provide "water bottle" fresh drinking water to a tap on the sink and be icemaker. People saying that RO systems make unsafe water from lack of minerals or oxygen are morons and do not understand the science.
__________________
Dave & Debbie
2021 Newmar DutchStar 4369
2016 Ford Edge&2019 Ford F-150 toads
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09-30-2013, 04:54 AM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogdriver
The thread seems to be derailing. Water softening is different than Reverse Osmosis or filtering. The water softening affects the hardness of the water generally thru a resin bead tank that is renewed occassionally with sodium chloride (salt). The salt is not passed into the water used in any significant concentrations. Reverse Osmosis is one way of filtering minerals and contaminants from said water. Other methods include carbon filters or even distillation. The trick is to find an economical and compact method suitable for an RV. When I was a military engineer we had an older Reverse Osmosis truck mounted system called an "Urdulator" that the instructor would stick the giant hose in raw sewage and with considerable engine power and noise out the other end came clean tap water we had to drink to show our confidence. RO is a method of removing contaminants from a basic element...H2O.
My RV has a water softener for primarily bathing and washing, and a RO system on the same water to provide "water bottle" fresh drinking water to a tap on the sink and be icemaker. People saying that RO systems make unsafe water from lack of minerals or oxygen are morons and do not understand the science.
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Dave,
I saw you use the Soft Cell Water Softner. What RO system do you use?
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09-30-2013, 06:05 AM
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#36
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogdriver
My RV has a water softener for primarily bathing and washing, and a RO system on the same water to provide "water bottle" fresh drinking water to a tap on the sink and be icemaker. People saying that RO systems make unsafe water from lack of minerals or oxygen are morons and do not understand the science.
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That was going to be my next question...when using the softener and RO, I would assume the RO is placed after the softener. How can you tell which are the sink/icemaker lines?
Flora
__________________
Flora
2016 Anthem 44B Victory Blue
2013 MKX toad
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09-30-2013, 11:05 AM
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#38
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Senior Member
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 1,833
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Water softeners replace the chemical (calcium) that causes waters spots, soap scum. etc. with one (sodium or magnesium) that will not. Water softeners are usually less expensive, less expensive to operate, and have a higher volume of water flow.
RO filters will filter out most, if not all, chemicals. RO filters usually waste considerably more water than water softeners, cost more, and have a lower volume of water flow.
Running softened water through an RO filter is counter productive. If one wants or needs a RO filter for drinking water, it is far more economical to draw water after the prefilter(s) but before the water softener. Why exchange chemicals in water if one is going to filter them out anyway?
Both need to be prefiltered to remove particulates, etc. that will eventually clog them. Water softeners usually need to have carbon prefiltration to remove bad tastes and odors from water; RO filters often do not need them, depending on what is causing the problem.
Both waste a certain amount of water. Softeners have to rinse excess salt from the resin bed after regeneration. RO filters have to shunt some water to waste to carry away the filtered out chemicals. All but, possibly, the best RO filters will waste more water than most softeners.
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09-30-2013, 01:50 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Polk City, FL
Posts: 3,368
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RO in use
I use a 50 gal/day capacity Reverse Osmosis system I bought from the RV Water Filter Store. They are RV-ers and are happy to help you get the system you want. I have a 2 gal storage tank for the RO water hooked to the sink tap and icemaker. It really beats buying cases of drinking water. So far, 10,000 miles and probably 20 states visited the water has come out pure, fresh and odorless. The trick to RO systems is to change the filters annually or you end up with more contaminated water than from the wall spigot!
__________________
Dave & Debbie
2021 Newmar DutchStar 4369
2016 Ford Edge&2019 Ford F-150 toads
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09-30-2013, 02:23 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Midland, Texas
Posts: 606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogdriver
The thread seems to be derailing. Water softening is different than Reverse Osmosis or filtering. The water softening affects the hardness of the water generally thru a resin bead tank that is renewed occassionally with sodium chloride (salt). The salt is not passed into the water used in any significant concentrations. Reverse Osmosis is one way of filtering minerals and contaminants from said water. Other methods include carbon filters or even distillation. The trick is to find an economical and compact method suitable for an RV. When I was a military engineer we had an older Reverse Osmosis truck mounted system called an "Urdulator" that the instructor would stick the giant hose in raw sewage and with considerable engine power and noise out the other end came clean tap water we had to drink to show our confidence. RO is a method of removing contaminants from a basic element...H2O.
My RV has a water softener for primarily bathing and washing, and a RO system on the same water to provide "water bottle" fresh drinking water to a tap on the sink and be icemaker. People saying that RO systems make unsafe water from lack of minerals or oxygen are morons and do not understand the science.
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That's exactly what I was trying to say only I probably didn't get there. Softener for all water, RO for drinking. That's why the sodium issue is a non issue.
__________________
Terry & Gloria O, Midland, Texas
2020 Entegra Aspire 44W, 2022 F250 King Ranch
2012 Entegra Aspire 42RBQ Traded
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09-30-2013, 07:08 PM
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Where ever we park it
Posts: 1,295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swenster
Hi, I also live in MN. Where is the softener company located? I live north of Brainerd by Crosslake.
Thanks, Tom
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The company is in White Bear Lake. Not sure if they have a store front or not. Let you know when I find out.
We just leased a MH site for next season. It's a couple miles south of Pequot Lakes. We'll be kinda neighbors next year. Nice to know you.
__________________
Robert & Holly - "Fulltimers" 8+ years
Schnauzers Augie Doggie and Monty Puppy
2014 Anthem 44B Rad Copper ----- SOLD
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09-30-2013, 10:06 PM
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoggieDaddy
The company is in White Bear Lake. Not sure if they have a store front or not. Let you know when I find out.
We just leased a MH site for next season. It's a couple miles south of Pequot Lakes. We'll be kinda neighbors next year. Nice to know you.
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We are about 7 miles east of Pequot Lakes. I have 2 friends that have rv resorts up here. If you are not happy with where you will be just let me know and I will hook you up.
Tom
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